Life outside BR

Phonehead

Lawes and Easter wouldn't be my choice, I was a fan of Lawes a few seasons ago when he burst on the scene but now he's just mehhh. 8 is a tough position because even tough I don't rate Easter there isn't really any standout player.

Phillips just to annoy us will come back to form and make the team, he is typical Welsh, consistently inconsistent but when he's hot he's easily the best S/H in the Northern Hemisphere.

Phonehead

ormond lad wrote: »

Stop with the anti munster and the nicknames. You are so anti munster its unbelievable. Zebo prob would be considered a winger over there, has the speed, his defence is good and can kick. McFadden and Trimble im not sure theyd have the out and out speed many wingers in NZ have
What about Donnacha Ryan. You dont mention him, he is in irish team on merit and is pushing for a Lions spot.


Kidney is not stupid. Lads not trying to be mod or anything but will ye stop saying things like Kidney is stupid. He has been a very successfull coach and we are more than capable of winning another 6 nations this season under DK

Ormond we are never going to agree, you think thinks are grand and I think things are a shambles - polar opposites with no common ground to agree on! anti Munster - It's not anti-munster it's anti having the wrong players in the squad, and the majority of those players so happen to be playing for a Munster team in decline, you fail to see that I criticized D'Arcy along with Trimble and McFadden! No point in us debating anyway as it won't change a thing about Ireland's eventual under-performance in the six nations with the backroom team using the usual excuses of we tried new things but they just didn't come off, next game they will! then eventually we get a one off and everybody is quick to hail things clicking only for us to go back to consistent abject failure.

seanand

ormond kidney has ruin the nat team its plain to see i agree with wexhead on that at least how can we have 3 teams making the last 16 of heiniken cup and lose over and over in the nat stages. the best players in the games lately seem to be the guys that are in the squad for the least amount of time, he stifles creativity

ormond lad

seanand wrote: »

ormond kidney has ruin the nat team its plain to see i agree with wexhead on that at least how can we have 3 teams making the last 16 of heiniken cup and lose over and over in the nat stages. the best players in the games lately seem to be the guys that are in the squad for the least amount of time, he stifles creativity

He hasnt ruined the national team. The players have to be blamed as much as kidney for poor performances.
And it was 3 in the last 8. I dont agree at all that he stifles creativity.

TheVoodoo

ormond lad wrote: »

He hasnt ruined the national team. The players have to be blamed as much as kidney for poor performances.
And it was 3 in the last 8. I dont agree at all that he stifles creativity.

I disagree. The best XV in the world can and will still under preform with a poor coach. I don't buy into the whole players to blame lark. Yes missed tackles, kicks and knock ons etc are not the coaches fault; But the platform, gameplans and tactics are the coaches decision. Poor squad selection can have a knockon effect too, as it can cripple confidence.

eoferrall

would not class him as poor, but he has some glaring negatives on his CV. great underage record and munster, but others where failures.

Personally I think he is a good coach, who got very lucky. Just like Eddie was a good coach but had zero luck.

all in all, he has given us some great days and nice scalps. but it is time to move on for kidney (and a few players).

eoferrall

also can we tone down the terminology to be less aggressive/bias, this forum has a good friendly open atmosphere. Lets keep it that was and discuss in a jovial manner. Thanks

ormond lad

eoferrall wrote: »

would not class him as poor, but he has some glaring negatives on his CV. great underage record and munster, but others where failures.

Personally I think he is a good coach, who got very lucky. Just like Eddie was a good coach but had zero luck.

all in all, he has given us some great days and nice scalps. but it is time to move on for kidney (and a few players).

Kidney does have some failures like the season in Leinster and some of his work with Ireland. he is a good coach but some of his work and games in charge but if he is to go who to replace him??
Like why would Schmidt leave Leinster? Why would Conor o Shea leave his role in England?
What 'few' players need to go?

seanand

john kirwan has proved himself at international level if he doesnt get the Scottish job. well plenty good options to replace him. i think any player that wont play in the next wc should be dropped no matter who they are

FewFew

The way to keep such heated discussions as this friendly is to argue against points rather than the pointers. Just sayin'.

Nice to see a fair few Irish names in that Lions wish-line-up.

eoferrall

ormond lad wrote: »

Kidney does have some failures like the season in Leinster and some of his work with Ireland. he is a good coach but some of his work and games in charge but if he is to go who to replace him??
Like why would Schmidt leave Leinster? Why would Conor o Shea leave his role in England?
What 'few' players need to go?

John Kirwan has a very good track record, Nick Mallet could be good also. and then i'm sure there are lots of coaches floating around that have good things we are unaware of. For instance, no one thought of JS for Leinster.

I would say over the next season, ROG, D'Arcy for a start. getting on and don't have the international impact they used to. JAckson was very assured against Fiji (weak opposition granted) and deserves to get serious game time. Marshall and mcsharry deserve a shot. EOM I believe will start getting consistent game time next season (would this if wasn't injured) and could be pushing for 13 as BOD is on last legs and will be wrapped in cotton wool I believe.

I think in a season or two Earls could be in trouble, like McFadden could be. having failed to nail down a position and specialists taking over. they could both be vying for the "utility back" slot in the subs unfortunately.

Earls needs to show more for me at 13 to stay long term, and if I was a coach I'd be encouraging him to stay at 11. Nothing to say he can't come into the line looking for the ball regularly from 11.

Mcfadden needs to get serious time at 12, as i think that is his best position if he is not to lose out long term.

As Fewi says, in BR we are always rotating squad members, especially against teams you think you will get bonus point against. There should be no issue playing marshall and BOD in centre against Italy and scotland for instance.

seanand

i suppose this goes here

https://www.facebook.com/TheToyShowDrinkingGame/info
i cant because im working tomorrow but i reckon youd be langered after 20 mins

FewFew

seanand wrote: »

i suppose this goes here

https://www.facebook.com/TheToyShowDrinkingGame/info
i cant because im working tomorrow but i reckon youd be langered after 20 mins

Completely forgot about the Toy Show, but, I was suitably langered by the start time I reckon. Oh industry showcase, how you drive me to drink.

ormond lad

Surprised this wasnt commented on earlier but the 2015 world cup draw was made today.
We are in pool D with France, Italy, Europe 2(prob Georgia/Romania maybe Russia) and America's 1(either USA or Canada)
Win the group we play Argentina but finish 2nd we play New Zealand.
Not too bad a draw. At least we avoided the group of death - Group which includes England, Wales and Australia.

corny

ormond lad wrote: »

Surprised this wasnt commented on earlier but the 2015 world cup draw was made today.
We are in pool D with France, Italy, Europe 2(prob Georgia/Romania maybe Russia) and America's 1(either USA or Canada)
Win the group we play Argentina but finish 2nd we play New Zealand.
Not too bad a draw. At least we avoided the group of death - Group which includes England, Wales and Australia.

Yeah great draw. Anything below 2nd is a disaster.

We'll need a little more luck though to really achieve at the tournament. If we run into NZ its lights out so hopefully the French will have a little crisis between now and then and we can get ourselves an actual coach. On neutral ground we can give them a game.

eoferrall

I would not be too despondent if we did end up coming 2nd and playing NZ. We'd have ZERO to lose and a lot to gain, so might see shackles off and just go at them. we have seen time and time again that NZ don't cope especially well under pressure.

We lost by a point by purely putting extreme pressure on them, if we did the same coupled with actually putting a few phases together and scoring a try???:eek:

Would make a bloody excellent RWC to topple NZ and continue from there. We have to beat the best to win it. I hope we go there with the intention of winning all matches we encounter and not be settling for 2nd.

Hate the draw being so early, I get all excited and then have to wait 2+years!:(

eoferrall

BOD says he is unlikely to be playing by 2015, and is caging about the level of involvement next season...or is that me being hypersensitive?!

westman1

eoferrall wrote: »

BOD says he is unlikely to be playing by 2015, and is caging about the level of involvement next season...or is that me being hypersensitive?!

some stage he has to go, better for his replacement after lions tour if he goes and give his replacement time to bed in .bod owes this country nothing ,hope his body recovers enough for him to have a pain free old age. there will be more departures some enforced some not between now and then

ormond lad

corny wrote: »

Yeah great draw. Anything below 2nd is a disaster.

We'll need a little more luck though to really achieve at the tournament. If we run into NZ its lights out so hopefully the French will have a little crisis between now and then and we can get ourselves an actual coach. On neutral ground we can give them a game.

Cant see us being below 2nd. Italy havent beaten us since the 2 games in 1997 and most of the irish victories have been by 10+ points.
Building a squad and finding replacements for BOD, POC, etc are the bigger issues than the coach tbf.

eoferrall wrote: »

I would not be too despondent if we did end up coming 2nd and playing NZ. We'd have ZERO to lose and a lot to gain, so might see shackles off and just go at them. we have seen time and time again that NZ don't cope especially well under pressure.

We lost by a point by purely putting extreme pressure on them, if we did the same coupled with actually putting a few phases together and scoring a try???:eek:

Would make a bloody excellent RWC to topple NZ and continue from there. We have to beat the best to win it. I hope we go there with the intention of winning all matches we encounter and not be settling for 2nd.

Hate the draw being so early, I get all excited and then have to wait 2+years!:(

Id prefer to have New Zealand either in the same pool as us or on the other side of the draw completely. That would mean we would not have to face the All Blacks until a potential final meet up.

eoferrall wrote: »

BOD says he is unlikely to be playing by 2015, and is caging about the level of involvement next season...or is that me being hypersensitive?!

We have to get used to him not being around sooner rather than later. He's 34 next month and has a lot of miles on the clock. IMO he could retire at the end of this season hopefully after helping the Lions win the test series on his 4th and final Lions Tour.
Hopefully while he is still around we could have him helping his likely successors like Earls etc

eoferrall

ormond lad wrote: »

Id prefer to have New Zealand either in the same pool as us or on the other side of the draw completely. That would mean we would not have to face the All Blacks until a potential final meet up.

in a perfect world yes, but a semifinal by beating NZ would be treasured so much more than a semi beating scotland say. if we beat NZ there would be no reason spirirts wouldn not soar in the camp and we could ride it to the Finish. Otherwise we would get to semi and that would be that I would imagine. so yes we would likely go out, but the possible advantage is better too.

ormond lad wrote: »

We have to get used to him not being around sooner rather than later. He's 34 next month and has a lot of miles on the clock. IMO he could retire at the end of this season hopefully after helping the Lions win the test series on his 4th and final Lions Tour.
Hopefully while he is still around we could have him helping his likely successors like Earls etc

Oh I know he has to go sooner rather than later, just get the feeling he is thinking of retiring at the end of the lions tour (should he make it!) I think you are right he would bow out at the top if we had the GS, HEC (& double) and/or Lions series win. Any combination of those and he will go. none of them and he might stick around for one more season.

I would like him to go sooner rather than later so that he goes on his terms and not through injury.

ormond lad

eoferrall wrote: »

in a perfect world yes, but a semifinal by beating NZ would be treasured so much more than a semi beating scotland say. if we beat NZ there would be no reason spirirts wouldn not soar in the camp and we could ride it to the Finish.
Otherwise we would get to semi and that would be that I would imagine. so yes we would likely go out, but the possible advantage is better too.

No any semi final win would be treasured as much as the other. If say we had to play scotland in a world cup semi we'd hardly complain about the win as "it was only scotland".

eoferrall

ormond lad wrote: »

No any semi final win would be treasured as much as the other. If say we had to play scotland in a world cup semi we'd hardly complain about the win as "it was only scotland".

I meant treasured as in the emotional lift it would give, the boost to players moral and confidence would be interesting to see how it panned out. A win against Scotland would be expected and therefore would provide no injection to confidence.

Imagine the stadium in London (or somewhere) stacked full nearly of Irish rocking with Ireland in the lead? Phenomenal atmosphere, so much more than a routine win over Scotland.

(please don't point out Scotland have beaten us on last two meetings (I think...))

ormond lad

eoferrall wrote: »

I meant treasured as in the emotional lift it would give, the boost to players moral and confidence would be interesting to see how it panned out. A win against Scotland would be expected and therefore would provide no injection to confidence.

Imagine the stadium in London (or somewhere) stacked full nearly of Irish rocking with Ireland in the lead? Phenomenal atmosphere, so much more than a routine win over Scotland.

(please don't point out Scotland have beaten us on last two meetings (I think...))

We have never beaten the all blacks. Our best chance of making a world cup semi final/final is to be on the opposite side of the draw to the all blacks.
A win over scotland and making a semi final would be an injection to our confidence as we would be making our first semi final ever.
What you are saying would be great but a win over scotland is much more plausible

eoferrall

ormond lad wrote: »

We have never beaten the all blacks. Our best chance of making a world cup semi final/final is to be on the opposite side of the draw to the all blacks.
A win over scotland and making a semi final would be an injection to our confidence as we would be making our first semi final ever.
What you are saying would be great but a win over scotland is much more plausible

I never said was likely, always said win over Scotland was more likely, also never said wouldn't be a boost, of course it would to be in semi. Just said the impact it would have would be FAR FAR greater.

To win the cup you have to pretty much beat the All blacks at some point, just win the matches one at a time and if we play the all blacks give them a battle. If we win epic, if we don't well hopefully we gave it a go, rather that than topping the group and bending over and taking it from Wales in the quarters.

Lets not nit pick every sentence here please, the thought process was we are in it to win it so we have to play them. If you are happy to settle for semis that is fine I am not, quarters or semis makes no difference to me. you did not win is the same result.

Phonehead

I don't know about anyone else but it's just so far away that it's impossible to predict how the World Cup in 3 years time will pan out. Having seen this young England side, the French get their act together and what we know Wales can do all I really hope over the next 3 years we unearth some physical Backs otherwise we could be steamrolled by pure size.

ormond lad

eoferrall wrote: »

I never said was likely, always said win over Scotland was more likely, also never said wouldn't be a boost, of course it would to be in semi. Just said the impact it would have would be FAR FAR greater.

To win the cup you have to pretty much beat the All blacks at some point, just win the matches one at a time and if we play the all blacks give them a battle. If we win epic, if we don't well hopefully we gave it a go, rather that than topping the group and bending over and taking it from Wales in the quarters.

Lets not nit pick every sentence here please, the thought process was we are in it to win it so we have to play them. If you are happy to settle for semis that is fine I am not, quarters or semis makes no difference to me. you did not win is the same result.

To win the cup yes you more than likely will have to beat the All Blacks at some stage but considering our record against them our best chance is to be on the other side of the draw and hope somebody like france/south africa etc who have beaten the new zealanders plenty of times can knock the all blacks out for us.
Yes i want us to win but we are not in the position to say winning it or nothing. Of course i want us to win outright but. Yes i would settle for a semi final place if we got there considering it would be our best ever performance in a world cup and that we are the only top nation yet to reach a world cup semi final
The attitude of reaching a semi is the same as reaching a quarter is fine but we realistically can reach a semi final while winning the world cup is another few steps above that

eoferrall

ormond lad wrote: »

To win the cup yes you more than likely will have to beat the All Blacks at some stage but considering our record against them our best chance is to be on the other side of the draw and hope somebody like france/south africa etc who have beaten the new zealanders plenty of times can knock the all blacks out for us.
Yes i want us to win but we are not in the position to say winning it or nothing. Of course i want us to win outright but. Yes i would settle for a semi final place if we got there considering it would be our best ever performance in a world cup and that we are the only top nation yet to reach a world cup semi final
The attitude of reaching a semi is the same as reaching a quarter is fine but we realistically can reach a semi final while winning the world cup is another few steps above that

that's were I disagree, we should be each tournament reaching the semis as a minimum. we are constantly in top 8 and over last few years prior to kidney have hovered in or close to top 4. yes the odd draw might go against you, but we seem to buckle in tournaments.

maybe a big game against NZ would kick start us, complete underdogs and go for it. That is all I am saying. CLEARLY it is easier and more plausible to be on the other side of the draw and hope someone else beats them like France, and then they collapse after. I am much fonder of keepers of our own destiny than relying on others to do us a favour.

Phonehead

eoferrall wrote: »

that's were I disagree, we should be each tournament reaching the semis as a minimum. we are constantly in top 8 and over last few years prior to kidney have hovered in or close to top 4. yes the odd draw might go against you, but we seem to buckle in tournaments.

maybe a big game against NZ would kick start us, complete underdogs and go for it. That is all I am saying. CLEARLY it is easier and more plausible to be on the other side of the draw and hope someone else beats them like France, and then they collapse after. I am much fonder of keepers of our own destiny than relying on others to do us a favour.

I can't see us getting to a semi-final? apart from catching a cocky Pocockless Australia at the last WC have we beaten any top 5 or 6 sides since the GS year in 09?

ormond lad

eoferrall wrote: »

that's were I disagree, we should be each tournament reaching the semis as a minimum. we are constantly in top 8 and over last few years prior to kidney have hovered in or close to top 4. yes the odd draw might go against you, but we seem to buckle in tournaments.

maybe a big game against NZ would kick start us, complete underdogs and go for it. That is all I am saying. CLEARLY it is easier and more plausible to be on the other side of the draw and hope someone else beats them like France, and then they collapse after. I am much fonder of keepers of our own destiny than relying on others to do us a favour.

You want to take things step by step. The IRFU have aimed in the past for semis and we are yet to reach that stage in a world cup so why should we be looking to go to a stage further than we got to before.
We have been consistently been in the top 8 and nearly always will be
While being in charge of our own destiny is important we have never been able to beat the all blacks at senior adult level but have beaten everybody else so why not
I dont think a big game against NZ would kick start us to the extent you are implying.

eoferrall

ormond lad wrote: »

You want to take things step by step. The IRFU have aimed in the past for semis and we are yet to reach that stage in a world cup so why should we be looking to go to a stage further than we got to before.
We have been consistently been in the top 8 and nearly always will be
While being in charge of our own destiny is important we have never been able to beat the all blacks at senior adult level but have beaten everybody else so why not
I dont think a big game against NZ would kick start us to the extent you are implying.

if it doesn't then we should rightly wear the tag of chokers.

we aim for the semis and fall short, maybe aim for the winning of the dam thing and make the semis?