The Future of The Written Word

DjFlin

Hi,

I recently had a conversation with a friend who said they "never have never will" use an eReader of any type, and was wondering how others felt about them.

Personally I think they're great. I dont have one, but I have used several (The Amazon Kindle mostly) and plan on getting one as soon as I can afford to.

Whenever I go on Holiday, I'd usually take two books, and buy a third in the Airport. Unless one of the books turns out to be rubbish, they're all read by the end of the first week, after which they're just wasted suitcase space. I love the idea of having one small device for all my books.

My friend paid €30 for A Dance With Dragons not too long ago. Its only €14 on Kindle. At that rate a Kindle would pay for itself pretty quickly.

So what do you think of eReaders? Are you one of those people who just wont give up on physical books? Explain it to me.

Bonavox

I bought a Kindle and love reading on it. It's like reading a real book without it being so bulky and awkward. Plus, having such a huge bookstore at your fingertips wherever you are is ideal.

I don't think I'd every buy another physical book unless I had to.

DjFlin

Bonavox wrote: »

I don't think I'd every buy another physical book unless I had to.

A point I forgot to make. I've got a tonne of books gather dust all over my house.

[-0-]

It's a debate that will go on for a long time.

I love physical books, and always will. I take pride in my book collection, and I love the feeling I get when I walk into a library or when a new book is delivered. There's a certain element of romanticism there. Books are more personal to me, kind of like hand written letters are more personal than emails are.

A Kindle is handy for people who travel a lot, no doubt about it.

I really do think I will always prefer books, but I can see myself getting a Kindle soon as I travel loads. I will probably order a hard copy of everything I order on the Kindle though.

Denerick

A kindle has its uses, I'm sure, but it can never replace the smells and the heft (The heft is a big one for me, I don't think I'm reading anything unless I can feel the weight in my arms...)

gogo

It definatley has it uses, but it cant be the same lying in bed late at night, telling yourself just 10 more pages and you'll turn off the light/ knowing thats its only 5 more pages until the end of the chapter.. while im sure e-book readers can tell you how many pages there are to go (depending on your font size), i feel it wouldnt be the same. Id miss flicking forward and telling myself "just this chapter and thats it..." iykwim

Also that new book feeling, no cracked spine, the new smell and feel

Also the old book feeling of well read, cracked spine, dog earred brillance


Saying that having just paid 26euros for dance with dragons, slightly peeved at the 14.95 kindle price tag.

Bonavox

Denerick wrote: »

A kindle has its uses, I'm sure, but it can never replace the smells and the heft (The heft is a big one for me, I don't think I'm reading anything unless I can feel the weight in my arms...)

Just glue a book onto the back of a Kindle, problem sorted. I jest. :pac:

DjFlin

[-0-] wrote: »

It's a debate that will go on for a long time.

I love physical books, and always will. I take pride in my book collection, and I love the feeling I get when I walk into a library or when a new book is delivered. There's a certain element of romanticism there. Books are more personal to me, kind of like hand written letters are more personal than emails are.

A Kindle is handy for people who travel a lot, no doubt about it.

I really do think I will always prefer books, but I can see myself getting a Kindle soon as I travel loads. I will probably order a hard copy of everything I order on the Kindle though.

I used to feel the same way about my CD collection. Now I've no idea where half of them are.

I'm sure this has happened before, when people decide they dont want any part in a new format, Tapes to CD's, Video Tapes to DVD's. I just wonder do eBook reader have the momentum to replace books.

Eoin

I love my eReader. Even if I didn't travel a lot for work, I reckon I'd still use it a lot. I don't have space for lots of books in my house, and I've never really gotten too precious about needing to feel real paper and all that stuff - I'm more about the contents of a book.

syklops

Eoin wrote: »

I love my eReader. Even if I didn't travel a lot for work, I reckon I'd still use it a lot. I don't have space for lots of books in my house, and I've never really gotten too precious about needing to feel real paper and all that stuff - I'm more about the contents of a book.

I have a Sony PRS505, and I am considering upgrading to a Nook. I also dont get caught up in the whole smell/feel/weight of the book. If the content engages you, then thats what its for. No offence, but it also sounds a bit pretentious saying it must be heavy. Its akin to saying "I only read thick books", IMO.

With mine you regularly forget its not a book. I regularly find myself memorising the page I was on before I turn it off, despite the fact that when I turn it back on it will still be on the same page. This is what I do with normal books too. I still buy real books, as some formats(as in layout) dont really work on it. Also things with lots of pictures dont work too well on the monochrome Sony.

x_Ellie_x

I prefer reading a physical book. I just love the feel of it, the smell, love being able to flick through the pages of a real book and hear the crinkling sounds the pages make. I like displaying them in my bookselves. I have an area in my house set up as a reading room/library. Its my favourite room.

I do have an e-reader but I hardly ever use it. I only use it if there's a book I really want to read but its out of print but I manage to find it in ebook form on a website somewhere. I find it hard to get through a book on an e-reader. I like to read a physical book for hours and hours but I can only read an ebook for about an hour at the most before I find the screen gives me a migraine.

Eoin

An actual migraine from using eInk for an hour max? That sounds very odd to me.

DjFlin

syklops wrote: »

I have a Sony PRS505, and I am considering upgrading to a Nook.

Is the Nook available here? I remember reading an article saying the Kindle is better, but that must have been at least a year ago. Perhaps the newer Nooks are better. I've never seen any here though. Kindles and Sony ones seem to be the most popular.

ixoy

Eoin wrote: »

I love my eReader. Even if I didn't travel a lot for work, I reckon I'd still use it a lot. I don't have space for lots of books in my house, and I've never really gotten too precious about needing to feel real paper and all that stuff - I'm more about the contents of a book.

Same for me. I won a Kindle and for ages I left it boxed up, believing that it could never replace the tactile nature of a real book and that it was a poor substitute.
I was wrong.
I use it as much as I can now. It's size is perfect for me. I was away for the weekend and didn't have to worry about finishing one book, because the next one was available right away. I was also able to jump between two others.
The eInk technology makes it very comfortable to read - very unlike reading a screen on a phone or tablet device.
If you really want something to give the impression of a book, then a decent cover (like the hemp one I have) gives you that too.

Eoin

ixoy wrote: »

The eInk technology makes it very comfortable to read - very unlike reading a screen on a phone or tablet device.

I hate how iPads and other tablets are marketed as eReaders - they really give a bad impression of the technology. It's all about the screen.

ixoy wrote: »

If you really want something to give the impression of a book, then a decent cover (like the hemp one I have) gives you that too.

Good point - I've the Sony PRS505 which came with a leather cover, which gives it a nice feel.

x_Ellie_x

Eoin wrote: »

An actual migraine from using eInk for an hour max? That sounds very odd to me.

I have trouble with my eyesight. My eyesight in my left eye is perfect while the sight in my right is awful. It's actually worst than having bad sight in both eyes. I tend to get awful headaches and migraines cause of my eyes. I have to carry nurofen plus around with me everywhere I go. Looking at an e-reader screen for more than an hour at a time is impossible for me.

Bonavox

Eoin wrote: »

I hate how iPads and other tablets are marketed as eReaders - they really give a bad impression of the technology. It's all about the screen.

This is definitely true. I tried reading books on my iPad but no matter how pretty Apple try to make iBooks look, LCD screens just don't work for reading. E-ink is definitely the best choice.

syklops

Eoin wrote: »

An actual migraine from using eInk for an hour max? That sounds very odd to me.

Migraine is the new word for headache. Like 'flu' is the new word for a cold.

Examples:
"Achoo, sniffle, snifle. Sorry I have a touch of the 'flu"
"Ow, my eyes are sore, and I have a bit of a headache. Feels a bit like a migraine"


Its probably not eInk either. More likely LCD. Anyone who ever says things like "I dont like reading off a screen" has never seen eInk technology.

EDIT:

Just saw x_Ellie_x's post now. Sorry for jumping the gun(second time today, nearly unfriended a lifelong friend on facebook earlier for doing the same thing. Bad hair Monday going on).

My sister gets migraines too, so it really annoys me when people say they get migraines when they have at worst a headache. I am sure you are the same.

Which ebook reader do you have?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Nody

My main issue with any e-book reader is that I can't give the book on to a friend. If I read a great series I like to be able to borrow the book to my friend to read it; with an e-reader, not a chance.

Same issue with books I don't like; no way to give them away to someone who might like them or trade in for another second hand book.

Which brings me to my final pet peeve with e-books; the price. I can buy a second hand book on Amazon et al for under a dollar each (under 4 with shipping in US for example) because it is second hand with a scuffed corner. For that price I can pick up a ton of potential books that I would never consider to buy as a "full price" e-book and trawl through what matters to me; no such thing with e-books sadly

Example is this as an example, A Feast for Crows: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Four (Martin, George Rr). Due to the series a lot of people may be intersted in: Kindle at $11.60 vs. paper copy for $7.96 or Homicide because there is no competition for e-books for Amazon.

kickarykee

I love eReaders, though I only use them for books I am either reading when I'm out (cause my printed books are way too precious to take along on the tube...) or those I'm just interested in, but don't feel like they were worth spending much money on them - like the free classics on Kindle etc.
There's nothing like the smell and feel of books, though - and I'm taking really good care of them, so they'll last. If I didn't feel like that (totally in love with them ) I'd consider buying printed books a waste of paper for my purposes and just go for eReader versions.

Dortilolma

I have no doubt that the next 5 to 10 years will see a massive shift in the book industry - I think Permabear has pretty much covered most of the basis. I also agree with Eoin - ereaders and tablets are very different devices.

I've heard arguments that e-Ink is on the way out and that people will not continue to buy dedicated devices such as ereaders with the growth of tablets. I can't even pretend to know whether or not this is true but I hope not.

I don't have an ereader myself yet mostly because I'm in two minds about which one I want (and I'm pretty broke). The only thing drawing me to the kindle is the access to the kindle store - I'm not mad about the device. I've used a Sony PRS650 and quite like the interface - but it's lack of 3G is a bit unfortunate, though not a deal breaker.

Kinski

Dortilolma wrote: »

I've heard arguments that e-Ink is on the way out and that people will not continue to buy dedicated devices such as ereaders with the growth of tablets. I can't even pretend to know whether or not this is true but I hope not.

I doubt it; I suspect that we're more likely to see an increase in the number of different e-ink devices on the market over the next few years. Few people who've actually read from an e-ink display would suggest that using an iPad as an ereader is a good alternative.

x_Ellie_x

syklops wrote: »

Just saw x_Ellie_x's post now. Sorry for jumping the gun(second time today, nearly unfriended a lifelong friend on facebook earlier for doing the same thing. Bad hair Monday going on).

My sister gets migraines too, so it really annoys me when people say they get migraines when they have at worst a headache. I am sure you are the same.

Which ebook reader do you have?

No offense taken. I feel the same way. I really should have explained about my sight in my first post.

I have a cheap Binatone one I got from Argos. Didn't really have a lot of money to spend on one so I got the cheapest one I could find. Nearly had a heart attack when I went into PC World and saw them priced into the hundreds!!

syklops

x_Ellie_x wrote: »

No offense taken. I feel the same way. I really should have explained about my sight in my first post.

I have a cheap Binatone one I got from Argos. Didn't really have a lot of money to spend on one so I got the cheapest one I could find. Nearly had a heart attack when I went into PC World and saw them priced into the hundreds!!

And therein lies the problem. I have read some reviews of the Binatones, and assuming you are using the eInk deice(there is an LCD device too), I have read that the contrast is poor, which means you have to turn the brightness up. This I found surprising, because my Sony does not have a brightness. Its just black and white. Also, this high brightness might be the cause for your migraines.

While Argos are great for most things, their technology prices are often not in line with market prices, According to the Argos website, the 6" ReadMe is 85 euros. The Kindle Wifi is 139 USD, which in todays exchange rate is 97 euros. I think for just a little bit more money you could have gotten a far superior device. Indeed you can buy a second hand Sony for around the 80 euro mark. The only way I would describe it's eInk implementation is 'cold'. It has no backlight, and no way of increasing the brightness, as it does not need it. To be honest, I usually get tired of holding it, long before my eyes give in. I read the third Millennium book during a ten hour train journey, almost non-stop, and had no issues with my eyes whatsoever.

Eoin

I have a tablet and an eReader and there is absolutely no way I'd use the tablet for reading. Tried it once and it was barely better than reading a laptop. I genuinely can't understand how people read books on an iPad.

Unless the technology matures to the point where a device can somehow have LCD and eInk, I can't see how the tablets will spell the end of readers. Unless people buy the marketing I suppose.

@nody - there were lots of annoying format issues with digital music as well at first. I've no doubt those issues you mentioned will be ironed out.

Nody

Eoin wrote: »

@nody - there were lots of annoying format issues with digital music as well at first. I've no doubt those issues you mentioned will be ironed out.

I've not mentioned formats though (it is a separate issue), my grips are as listed:

1. Can't give a e-book you've finished to a friend 'cause it is a good book they should read
2. Can't sell them on or trade for another e-book if you don't want to keep it
3. More expensive then a second hand paper copy (and some times then a new as well) making it expensive to experiment/take a chance

Eoin

When I said format, I meant the medium not the file type. Those are all relatively minor (from a technical point of view) gripes that I am sure will be ironed out as ebooks become more wide spread

Kinski

Nody wrote: »

1. Can't give a e-book you've finished to a friend 'cause it is a good book they should read
2. Can't sell them on or trade for another e-book if you don't want to keep it
3. More expensive then a second hand paper copy (and some times then a new as well) making it expensive to experiment/take a chance

1. True, but publishers can permit ebook lending if they wish. There are ebooks which are loan-enabled, allowing you to lend them to a friend once, for a period of two weeks. Obviously that doesn't allow you the same freedom to lend that a hardcopy does, but it's better than nothing.

2. Second-hand bookstores pay only a pittance for most books, so that's no great loss. It could prove to be a loss for charity shops, though.

3. Once again, that's sometimes true, but e-readers can display all those public domain texts which anyone can download, for free, from sites like gutenberg.org, so one could view that as a trade-off.

syklops

Nody wrote: »

I've not mentioned formats though (it is a separate issue), my grips are as listed:

1. Can't give a e-book you've finished to a friend 'cause it is a good book they should read
2. Can't sell them on or trade for another e-book if you don't want to keep it
3. More expensive then a second hand paper copy (and some times then a new as well) making it expensive to experiment/take a chance

Those are all good points, but it does depend on the type of books you are reading. Dont forget of all the free and legal sources of books that are out there, like Project Gutenberg. As Eoin pointed out, not being able to share media was a common problem in the early days of MP3 players, and now its easy.

Also, as the demand for ebooks increases which you can see it is, the price will fall.

Nody

syklops wrote: »

Also, as the demand for ebooks increases which you can see it is, the price will fall.

The demand for Windows is at an all time high; the price don't decrease though. Demand does not decrease price as much as competition and with e-books there is (currently) a woefull lack of competition because there is no second hand market, limited interoperability and no noticable cost increase between selling 100 or 100.000 copies (with paper books if you print 100k copies and only sell 50k you need to dump the final 50k due to storage costs, printing costs etc. to recoup the investment).

In short, there is no reason for the publishers to reduce the cost of their e-book copies because the cost of keeping it at the current price has very limited downsides (higher profit margin, non existant cost of storage, bigger libery available etc.) and there is no competition to push it down (copyright ensures they have no incentives short of wanting to sell you the author's next copy). Why lower your own profit margins when you've got a format with no second hand market (game makers would wet their pants for that), no real cost to store it and no one that can undersell you any more?

Don't get me wrong here; I'd love to see a competive e-book market (would save me a lot of bookshelf space if nothing else) but I simply can't see how it will work in practice. I'd love the idea of a netflix for e-books, or subscription base but since what I'm reading is all over the place (fantasy to religion to history to old classics to Sci Fi) I simply don't see how it would work out