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Do you believe in the Paranormal?

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Comments

  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,529 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    not again....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    Giselle wrote: »
    I'd say that I don't assume that because something is presently inexplicable, that its paranormal.

    But that's what the definition of paranormal is-things that are beyond the normal or current scientific understanding.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    mickrock wrote: »
    But that's what the definition of paranormal is-things that are beyond the normal or current scientific understanding.
    I don't know anything about quantum physics, but I'd presume it's provable and observable even if it isn't explainable.
    mickrock wrote: »
    Paranormal phenomena, like telepathy and psychokenesis
    On the other hand, do we have any evidence of these phenomena actually being real or existing at all?
    I might claim to be able to make plants grow faster just by using my mind, does that make it a paranormal phenomenon even though I can't actually demonstrate that it's happening?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭im invisible


    Yeah, things like spontanious human combustion, there was a case in Galway (i think) earlier this year, and the placebo effect, things like that, ok. Alien abductions and psychic shìt, not so much


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭Sofaspud


    mickrock wrote: »
    But that's what the definition of paranormal is-things that are beyond the normal or current scientific understanding.

    Most, if not all things considered to be paranormal can be explained scientifically. Nothing "Paranormal" has ever been proven to exist.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    mickrock wrote: »
    Paranormal phenomena, like telepathy and psychokenesis, seem to be compatible with the interconnected, immaterial world of quantum physics.
    ...
    What say you?
    I'd say you need to explain why you think you can make this link, hand waving is not enough. Saying that one type of weirdness is the same as a completely different weirdness is just weird.

    You might as well try to predict the behaviour of women by comparing then to cats


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Guill


    As in WIMP?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    @DonkeyStyle

    The James Randi Challenge seems reasonable but since 2007 he will only consider those with an already existing media profile and the backing of an academic, which really weakens the challenge.

    Here's what one lawyer has to say about Randi's challenge:



  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,529 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    mickrock wrote: »
    @DonkeyStyle

    The James Randi Challenge seems reasonable but since 2007 he will only consider those with an already existing media profile and the backing of an academic, which really weakens the challenge.

    Here's what one lawyer has to say about Randi's challenge:


    Lame, a "real" psychic would have no problem getting either of those things.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    Sofaspud wrote: »
    Most, if not all things considered to be paranormal can be explained scientifically. Nothing "Paranormal" has ever been proven to exist.

    If they can be explained scientifically then they are not paranormal, are they?

    I'm not very well up on paranormal research but I believe there is some evidence of it. Maybe someone with more knowledge in this area can post something up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    No. Being duped, imagining things and scaring yourself senseless is, though.


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,529 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    mickrock wrote: »
    If they can be explained scientifically then they are not paranormal, are they?

    I'm not very well up on paranormal research but I believe there is some evidence of it. Maybe someone with more knowledge in this area can post something up.

    There really isn't, unless you count anecdotes, faked/blurry picture and videos which you really shoudn't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 108 ✭✭ZRelation


    mickrock wrote: »

    Paranormal phenomena, like telepathy and psychokenesis, seem to be compatible with the interconnected, immaterial world of quantum physics.
    This is a pretty classic line from lovers of the 'paranormal'. Just cos quantum physics is unusual and hard-to grasp doesn't open the door for all sorts of quakery. Quantic physics is actually quite well understood and a reasonably mature field at this stage..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    Lame, a "real" psychic would have no problem getting either of those things.

    Oh yeah, it would be easy for an average Joe Soap to gain a media profile and the backing of an academic. I think not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 108 ✭✭ZRelation


    mickrock wrote: »
    Oh yeah, it would be easy for an average Joe Soap to gain a media profile and the backing of an academic. I think not.
    Surprising how easy it is these days to get the backing of an 'academic'. Like this guy...http://pesn.com/2011/01/27/9501752_Italian_cold_fusion_saga_continues_with_new_papers_released/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    mickrock wrote: »
    I think it's possible that there are forces and fields which are outside our normal awareness, which science cannot currently explain

    Agree.
    or may never be able to explain.

    Disagree
    Because of the limits of the human mind there is only so far science can go in explaining reality.

    Meh.
    Science will never be able to explain the ultimate mysteries of the universe.

    Okay thanks for letting us know your position. I think you're wrong btw.
    The weirdness and mind-bending nature of quantum physics (QP) indicate that things are not as straightforward as they appear.

    Quantum physics (QP) has been hijacked by the mystics to justify their superstitions.
    Quantum physics is widely accepted by the scientific community, even though the theory seems irrational and is full of uncertainty and paradoxes.

    So, like mere mortals such as myself you don't understand it. If you don't understand it then don't use it to make an argument.
    Paranormal phenomena, like telepathy and psychokenesis, seem to be compatible with the interconnected, immaterial world of quantum physics

    Rubbish. Self affirming opinion.
    (I would accept that most psychics or so-called psychics are frauds and charlatans and are only trying to extract money from mostly vulnerable people.)

    Most? So you think that there may be some who are not frauds? Pfff - they're all frauds if they cannot provide proof.
    What say you?

    I say you're trying to confuse mysticism with science and anyone with half a brain will see that for what it is.

    In a word - bollocks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    mickrock wrote: »
    But that's what the definition of paranormal is-things that are beyond the normal or current scientific understanding.
    You misunderstand the definition, it's not so much beyond as contrary. It's also a byword for bullshit and quackery.

    You suggested there is "evidence", there is none, I suggest you stop watching the discovery channel, it's not exactly scientific.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    mickrock wrote: »
    The James Randi Challenge seems reasonable but since 2007 he will only consider those with an already existing media profile and the backing of an academic, which really weakens the challenge.
    Randi is offering a million dollars.

    Suppose you say you can guess whether a card will be red or black 60% of the time. It would take a lot of cards before your odds of winning would be worse than a million dollar lottery. And we all know how many people pay for the privilege of having a tiny chance of free money.

    where there's the possibility of a payout there's probably a lawyer circling like a vulture
    (IMHO not all lawyers are money chasers, the vast majority give the legit ones a bad name (any lawyer who sues over that will probably have bad luck ;) ))



    So many cranks applied for the Wolfskehl Prize ( proof of Fermat's last theorem (a^n +b^n=c^n has no integer solutions for n>2) ) that the adjudicator used to pit them against each other by passing other entries them to review.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    Quantum physics (QP) has been hijacked by the mystics to justify their superstitions.

    Where did I miss quantum?

    mickrock, if you're going to pretend physics backs you up at least understand it, please, in your own words, explain the basics of quantum theory, and then how it relates to fairy stories.


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    mickrock wrote: »
    Oh yeah, it would be easy for an average Joe Soap to gain a media profile and the backing of an academic. I think not.
    The average Joe doesn't have paranormal powers :rolleyes:

    Anyone who could predict stocks / horse races / roulette wheels / card games / other bets with only slightly better than average rate could make fortunes in a short time. And that could attract media attention. Then again if you could do that then a million dollars would be chump change.

    There is a lot science doesn't know about non-verbal communications. Tells are known and a lot of poker players, second hand car salesmen and diplomats use them every day to their advantage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭WesternNight


    Yeah, things like spontanious human combustion, there was a case in Galway (i think) earlier this year, and the placebo effect, things like that, ok. Alien abductions and psychic shìt, not so much

    You're putting spontaneous human combustion and the placebo effect in the same category? :confused:


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,529 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    mickrock wrote: »
    Oh yeah, it would be easy for an average Joe Soap to gain a media profile and the backing of an academic. I think not.

    Lets apply a bit of logic to the ludicrous situation you are putting forward shall we? If they genuinely have super powers, which is what you're saying, then it would not be a problem at all nor would they be an average jor soap.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    mickrock, if you're going to pretend physics backs you up at least understand it, please, in your own words, explain the basics of quantum theory, and then how it relates to fairy stories.

    I don't undestand quantum physics. But some of its implications are weird and could be part of an explanation of paranormal phenomena.

    For example:

    The very act of observing can affect the obseved reality.

    Events in the future can affect what happend in the past.

    A particle here can affect one on the other side of the universe, instantaneously.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,184 ✭✭✭3ndahalfof6


    why in AH,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock



    Anyone who could predict stocks / horse races / roulette wheels / card games / other bets with only slightly better than average rate could make fortunes in a short time.

    They are more likely to make a modest amount of money over a long period of time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    mickrock wrote: »
    I think it's possible that there are forces and fields which are outside our normal awareness, which science cannot currently explain or may never be able to explain.

    Because of the limits of the human mind there is only so far science can go in explaining reality. Science will never be able to explain the ultimate mysteries of the universe.

    The weirdness and mind-bending nature of quantum physics indicate that things are not as straightforward as they appear. Quantum physics is widely accepted by the scientific community, even though the theory seems irrational and is full of uncertainty and paradoxes.

    Paranormal phenomena, like telepathy and psychokenesis, seem to be compatible with the interconnected, immaterial world of quantum physics.

    (I would accept that most psychics or so-called psychics are frauds and charlatans and are only trying to extract money from mostly vulnerable people.)

    What say you?

    yea quantum physics, man... :pac:

    We built the TV and large hadron collider.. if some humans were psychic we'd of identified it and made a way for everyone to do it by now. like bluetooth or wifi..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    Look there are two categories to everything we perceive.

    1) Caused by God / Paranormal
    2) Easily explainable by science.

    As the human race progresses, things are steadily moving from category 1 into category 2.

    Thunder and lightening and rain were once in Category 1, many moons ago.

    As we advance and progress as a race it is inevitable that category 1 will become empty.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Science will never explain Dana so category 1 wont ever be empty


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    mickrock wrote: »
    I don't undestand quantum physics. But some of its implications are weird and could be part of an explanation of paranormal phenomena.

    For example:

    The very act of observing can affect the obseved reality.

    I believe this is true.
    Events in the future can affect what happend in the past.

    This is not true. The future does not exist. That why we have bookies.
    why in AH,

    Why not? Plenty of smart fuckers in AH. If I've learned anything about my level of intelligence I've learned that there are some very bright people, much brighter than myself, mincing about on AH.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,184 ✭✭✭3ndahalfof6


    I believe this is true.



    This is not true. The future does not exist. That why we have bookies.



    Why not? Plenty of smart fuckers in AH. If I've learned anything about my level of intelligence I've learned that there are some very bright people, much brighter than myself, mincing about on AH.

    its not often i see a serious question in AH, maybe i am wrong,

    and i do know there is plenty of smart fookers perusing AH,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 108 ✭✭ZRelation


    mickrock wrote: »
    I don't undestand quantum physics. But some of its implications are weird and could be part of an explanation of paranormal phenomena.

    For example:

    The very act of observing can affect the obseved reality.

    Events in the future can affect what happend in the past.

    A particle here can affect one on the other side of the universe, instantaneously.
    Still all well explained by the theory though. Telekinesis and other such BS is not...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    Sky King wrote: »
    Look there are two categories to everything we perceive.

    1) Caused by God / Paranormal
    2) Easily explainable by science.

    As the human race progresses, things are steadily moving from category 1 into category 2.

    Thunder and lightening and rain were once in Category 1, many moons ago.

    As we advance and progress as a race it is inevitable that category 1 will become empty.

    The idea that one day everything will be explained by science is false.

    Human consciousness is limited which puts a limit on what can be perceived and understood. As Kant said, our awareness of reality is filtered through the structures with which we perceive it.

    There may be more advanced creatures in the universe with more consciousness than humans. If there is, they will perceive a more complete reality than us and will have a better understanding, but it will still be limited.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    Which is why I said everything we percieve.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    mickrock wrote: »
    The James Randi Challenge seems reasonable but since 2007 he will only consider those with an already existing media profile and the backing of an academic, which really weakens the challenge.
    What it does is filter out time-wasters, I see no problem with it.
    mickrock wrote: »
    Here's what one lawyer has to say about Randi's challenge:
    One retired lawyer who has been investigating the afterlife for 20 years you mean.
    So James Randi is "using his challenge to bully psychics and mediums". Why? What's the motive?
    Most of what this guy is complaining about is addressed to my satisfaction on the challenge FAQ on randi.org
    It doesn't make sense to me for the Randi challenge to be a rigged hoax, if someone genuinely did provide "self evident" proof, Randi would stand to make an absolute fortune with book deals/talks/interviews, etc. So again, not seeing the motive.

    I don't even care about the Randi challenge, prove it to any respected university, prove it to Darren Brown or Pat Kenny even, they'd still make millions and be world famous. It just doesn't add up for me.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭mickrock


    It doesn't make sense to me for the Randi challenge to be a rigged hoax, if someone genuinely did provide "self evident" proof, Randi would stand to make an absolute fortune with book deals/talks/interviews, etc. So again, not seeing the motive.

    The more I read about the James Randi Challenge the more of a sham it seems:

    http://www.dailygrail.com/features/the-myth-of-james-randis-million-dollar-challenge



    "First, and perhaps the most important, is the effect size required to win the challenge. While the JREF says that "all tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant", this does not mean that the tests are fair scientific tests. The JREF need to protect a very large amount of money from possible "long-range shots", and as such they ask for extremely significant results before paying out - much higher than are generally accepted in scientific research (and if you don’t agree to terms, your application is rejected). In the case of parapsychological research, however, where effect size is often small (though apparently robust), this means most researchers would have to go to extraordinary lengths to win the million dollars. "


    "Furthermore, applicants must first pass a 'preliminary test', before they are allowed to progress to the actual 'formal' test which pays the million dollars. So an applicant must first show positive results in a preliminary test (yielding results against chance of at least 1000 to 1, apparently), then once through to the next stage they would then have to show positive results against much higher odds to claim the prize (by all reports, at odds of around 1 million to 1). Failure in either test means no cash prize, and a fail beside their name. It many respects it would be like telling a professional golfer to shoot 63 around Augusta National, then come back and shoot 59, to prove that he can play golf"


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,529 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    mickrock wrote: »
    The more I read about the James Randi Challenge the more of a sham it seems:

    http://www.dailygrail.com/features/the-myth-of-james-randis-million-dollar-challenge



    "First, and perhaps the most important, is the effect size required to win the challenge. While the JREF says that "all tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant", this does not mean that the tests are fair scientific tests. The JREF need to protect a very large amount of money from possible "long-range shots", and as such they ask for extremely significant results before paying out - much higher than are generally accepted in scientific research (and if you don’t agree to terms, your application is rejected). In the case of parapsychological research, however, where effect size is often small (though apparently robust), this means most researchers would have to go to extraordinary lengths to win the million dollars. "


    "Furthermore, applicants must first pass a 'preliminary test', before they are allowed to progress to the actual 'formal' test which pays the million dollars. So an applicant must first show positive results in a preliminary test (yielding results against chance of at least 1000 to 1, apparently), then once through to the next stage they would then have to show positive results against much higher odds to claim the prize (by all reports, at odds of around 1 million to 1). Failure in either test means no cash prize, and a fail beside their name. It many respects it would be like telling a professional golfer to shoot 63 around Augusta National, then come back and shoot 59, to prove that he can play golf"

    Seems fair enough, if someone really has super powers then the preliminary tests won't be a problem. If they're really psychic or telekinetic then the odds don't come into it.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    mickrock wrote: »
    The more I read about the James Randi Challenge the more of a sham it seems:
    It many respects it would be like telling a professional golfer to shoot 63 around Augusta National, then come back and shoot 59, to prove that he can play golf"
    There are 25 million people who play golf. It's a bit like limiting invitations to play in a masters to just 25 thousand people.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    I believe in the paranormal.

    I've got loads of books at home about ghosts.

    Last Christmas I got a big hardback book called "Haunted Britain" (2010). Each double spread tells you about a certain haunted location in the UK - such as a pub, castle, stately home, stone circle, ancient battlefield etc. And for each location there is text, covering the double spread, which tells you about the history of the place and then the ghosts which supposedly haunt it. And there are colour pictures of each location.

    The book is divided into regions - North West, South East, West Midland, East Anglia, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, etc.

    I love reading this book late at night when there is nothing on the telly, with the dull glow of the lamp illuminating the living toom.

    A couple of locations from my town of Bolton feature in the North West section - Smithills Hall and and the Ye Olde Man and Scythe pub, which is in the top ten of the oldest pubs in Britain. And Most Haunted once did an investigation at Smithills Hall

    4690068-Ye_Olde_Man_Scythe_Bolton.jpg

    Ye Olde Man and Scythe, on Churchgate in Bolton town centre, was first built in 1251 but now only the cellar remains of the original building. The current building dates from 1636 and that year has been carved into a wall in one of the lounge areas by the workmen.

    In the same building is a shop known as Ye Olde Wench & Trinkets, which sells unusual jewellery, "fairies", crystals, aromatherapy etc. You can also have tarot cards read to you. Both places also have creepy overnight ghost hunts.

    In 1651, James Stanley, 7th Earl of Derby was beheaded just outside the pub for his part in the Bolton Massacre of 1644 during the English Civil War. On 28th May 1644, the strongly Parliamentarian town was stormed and captured by the Royalist forces under Prince Rupert of the Rhine, the nephew of King Charles I. It was alleged that up to 1,600 of Bolton's defenders and inhabitants were slaughtered during and after the fighting. Many civilians were lined up and run through with swords. The "massacre at Bolton" became a staple of Parliamentarian propaganda. It was the only such massacre which happened during the civil war.

    The Earl of Derby had his last meal in the pub just before his execution and the actual chair which he sat in is contained within a glass cabinet in one of the pub's lounges for the drinkers to see.

    On the chair is an inscription which reads "15th October 1651 In this chair James 7th Earl of Derby sat at the Man and Scythe Inn, Churchgate, Bolton immediately prior to his execution".

    In the glass cabinet with the chair is also the actual axe that was used to behead him! The exact spot just outside the pub where he was beheaded is now marked by a tall stone column surmounted by a cross.

    220px-James_Stanley,_7th_Earl_of_Derby_by_Sir_Anthony_Van_Dyck.jpg
    James Stanley, 7th Earl of Derby

    1092566686_5d41414cd1.jpg
    The column on Churchgate in Bolton town centre marks the exact spot where the Earl of Derby was executed in 1651. The black and white Man and Scythe pub can be seen behind and just to the right of the column.

    exec.jpg
    The same scene during his execution in 1651

    Needless to say, the Earl of Derby's ghost has often been seen inside the Man and Scythe. Also, in the room containing the chair and axe, a woman in 17th Century clothing has been seen. The woman purportedly looks just like the woman in the portrait which is hung in that room. Orbs have also been seen in the room by paranormal investigators.

    The spirit of Geny, an eight year old girl, has been blamed for tugging at skirts, pinching people, and moving items around, while a phantom dog runs around chairs in the room which contains the old chair and axe.

    choppandorb.jpg.w560h420.jpg
    The chair that the Earl of Derby sat in prior to his execution outside the pub in 1651 and the actual axe used for the execution. Notice the orb.


    In fact, the pub is said to contain 20 ghosts.

    One particularly mysterious event occurred at the pub. A customer was getting out of her seat to leave the pub when she noticed blood on her hands although she had no wounds. This frightened her so much she ran out of the pub. The barman thought that the blood had dripped from the ceiling and ran upstairs thinking the landlord had had a nasty accident. However, the landlord was fine and the source of the blood was never discovered.

    Incidentally, the 7th Earl of Derby who was executed outside the Man and Scythe is an ancestor of the man who founded ice hockey's Stanley Cup (Frederick Stanley, 16th Earl of Derby).

    The owners of the pub once contacted the Most Haunted team to do an investigation, but when producers of the show visited they decided not to film an episode there as the rooms of the pub don't have doors.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Yeah, things like spontanious human combustion, there was a case in Galway (i think) earlier this year, and the placebo effect, things like that, ok. Alien abductions and psychic shìt, not so much
    I think you'll find most scientists/medical professionals will agree that the placebo effect is a real observable effect. Not all agree on all aspects of it or the exact mechanism - doesn't mean it should be categorised under 'paranormal'.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    I think you'll find most scientists/medical professionals will agree that the placebo effect is a real observable effect. Not all agree on all aspects of it or the exact mechanism - doesn't mean it should be categorised under 'paranormal'.

    If science is unable to explain a phenomenon it means that that phenomenon is paranormal.

    Paranormal phenomena are distinct from certain hypothetical entities, such as dark matter and dark energy, only insofar as paranormal phenomena are inconsistent with the world as already understood through empirical observation coupled with scientific methodology.

    Ghosts, SHC, UFOs, alien abductions, demonic possession can all be classed as paranormal.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Batsy wrote: »
    If science is unable to explain a phenomenon it means that that phenomenon is paranormal.
    No, just because something can't be explained doesn't make it paranormal.

    Now if it can't be explained AND observed/studied, such as religion/faith healing/etc then it falls under the category paranormal.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Sky King wrote: »
    Look there are two categories to everything we perceive.

    1) Caused by God / Paranormal
    2) Easily explainable by science.

    As the human race progresses, things are steadily moving from category 1 into category 2.

    Thunder and lightening and rain were once in Category 1, many moons ago.

    As we advance and progress as a race it is inevitable that category 1 will become empty.

    That doesn't mean that it will one day definitely be proven that ghosts don't exist.

    Science could one day prove their existence.

    If that happened then ghosts would then cease to be a paranormal phemonenon but would still exist.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    No, just because something can't be explained doesn't make it paranormal.

    Paranormal phenomena are distinct from certain hypothetical entities, such as dark matter and dark energy, only insofar as paranormal phenomena are inconsistent with the world as already understood through empirical observation coupled with scientific methodology.

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Got a paranormal forum for this?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Batsy wrote: »
    Paranormal phenomena are distinct from certain hypothetical entities, such as dark matter and dark energy, only insofar as paranormal phenomena are inconsistent with the world as already understood through empirical observation coupled with scientific methodology.

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal
    Do you understand what you are quoting, or are you just blindly/stupidly/lazily grabbing text from wikipedia?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭Sofaspud


    mickrock wrote: »
    If they can be explained scientifically then they are not paranormal, are they?

    Bingo!

    Most people don't know the scientific explanations, and that's why non-paranormal things are seen as paranormal.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Do you understand what you are quoting, or are you just blindly/stupidly/lazily grabbing text from wikipedia?

    I understand what I'm posting. Do you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭Standman


    Batsy wrote: »
    If science is unable to explain a phenomenon it means that that phenomenon is paranormal.

    Paranormal phenomena are distinct from certain hypothetical entities, such as dark matter and dark energy, only insofar as paranormal phenomena are inconsistent with the world as already understood through empirical observation coupled with scientific methodology.

    Ghosts, SHC, UFOs, alien abductions, demonic possession can all be classed as paranormal.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal

    What often amazes me is how people who believe in this "paranormal" stuff often say it means something that is unexplainable, and then in the next breath go on to explain a whole lot about it e.g. "it was a ghost/alien/demon etc..".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    Batsy wrote: »
    That doesn't mean that it will one day definitely be proven that ghosts don't exist.
    That doesn't mean that one day it will definitely be proven that the invisible dragon in my garage doesn't exist.


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