Psychiatry

cliona88

I'm wondering if anyone could shed some light on studying to become a psychiatrist in Ireland? I'm currently studying towards Gamsat and hoping to sit it in March. I've read some scary things about horrific hours and the absolute need to emigrate after a medical degree. I'm really drawn towards psychiatry so any advice or information would be greatly appreciated. Is the situation with regards to grueling work conditions the same if you wished to specialise in psychiatry? I've heard that there is less need to leave the country after graduating, is this true?

take everything

Psychiatry is handy enough (especially if you have interest in it) compared to other specialties.
If you've done your psych rotation as a med student, you'll probably have noticed it's more relaxed already.
The hours aren't too bad (not too far off EWTD and generally the calls are not that frequent (eg 1 in 7 or even less frequent).
As i say, if you have a genuine interest in Psych, it shouldn't be too onerous.

In terms of doing it, you can do it straight after internship if you want (some get med SHO experience prior to doing so).
After that it's something like 2 years atleast as an SHO while getting membership exams (MRCPsych). Then become a Reg. A few more years (bit hazy about availability of consultant positions etc, length of time as reg) get consultancy (typically at least mid thirties onward).

A Neurotic

Would a degree in neuroscience be beneficial towards a career in psychiatry, or would it only really fall within the remit of neurology? Heading into year 3 of my medical degree, thinking of doing an intercalated Masters next year.

take everything

A Neurotic wrote: »

Would a degree in neuroscience be beneficial towards a career in psychiatry, or would it only really fall within the remit of neurology? Heading into year 3 of my medical degree, thinking of doing an intercalated Masters next year.

Yeah neuroscience covers both psych and neuro stuff.
There's a few psychiatry Profs and doctors in psychiatry doing research in the TCD neuroscience dept. Some TCD med students do the intercalated MSc in Neuroscience as you say. So neuroscience certainly wouldn't hurt if your doing psych in future.

sam34

psych training is as follows-

can start post - internship

no need to do a year or more of medical / surgical sho first

you sit exams over a three year period, cannot complete membership in less than that. overall pass rate is approx 30% afair.

call varies depending on the centre you are in, anything from a 1 in 4 to a 1 in 14. call can be very busy. while you won't see as many patients as the medics or surgeons on call will, the

ones you do see will take longer to see and sort out, so you might only see 4 or 5 but be up all night.

after membership people diverge a bit. meant to say you can apply to become a reg after passing some of the exams. anyway, after membership some people fo lecturing or research jobs, some go straight for the SpR scheme. SpR is 3 years if doing general adult, 4 yrs if doing dual training like old age or learning disability.

after that is the fun bit, scrambling for consultant posts. like every specialty they are getting more scarce. it's very competitive and likely get even more so as they keep churning out SpRs but there are no new posts being created.

it's debatable whether you need to go abroad. of the appointments in the last 18 months or so, to the best of my knowledge only one has gone to someone who did higher specialist training abroad, the others were all Irish trained.

it's a great job, I love it and wouldn't do anything else. but it does have its downsides. the exams are tough. it is a dumping ground for everything that nobody else wants to deal with. you see far too much social stuff that is not mental illness. the suicide card is abused by both patients and GPs. you get referrals and consults that are frankly pure rubbish and the equivalent would never be sent to other specialists. and everyone , absolutely everyone from taxi drivers to journalists to family members and AH posters have opinions on how you do your job and what they think you should be doing - that gets pretty demoralising, especially when you realise they haven't the first clue about serious mental illness. I no longer tell people I meet casually ( taxi drivers, hairdressers, beauticians, etc) what I do, I lie and say I'm a secretary, because I am sick of being told how to do my job by people not qualified to do so.

having said that, I love my job, it fascinates me and I look forward to going in to work every day.

jtsuited

thanks for that info sam. My whole medicine 'vocation' stemmed from my obsession with psychiatry (and neuroscience).

I have one or two questions niggling me recently as I start medicine (in a little over two weeks - woohoo) -
1. As a GEM graduate, I'm going to be looking at a not insignificant amount of debt when I start working. I fear that that that pressure may steer me away from psychiatry as my choice of specialty and/or staying in Ireland.
I don't want to be a doctor for money by any stretch of the imagination, but I also don't want to be struggling to get by.
Do you think in 5 years time, training as a psychiatrist will be feasible for somebody who has to pay around 100k over 10 years to the bank?

2. How does being a psych nchd in Ireland compare to other countries (Canada or UK in particular)?

sam34

re the first question, I think it will be no more or less feasible than any other specialty. I think the hse is going to force introduction of the ewtd everywhere, so opportunities for overtime will be greatly reduced. this will be done at the expense of training and services but that's another story.

re training abroad , I can't really comment as thankfully I never went abroad.
I have to say though, I suspect I'd hate American psychiatry where the focus appears to be more on everyone having a shrink and engaging in therapy and less on severe and enduring mental illness.