Endgame for Gaddafi as rebels enter Tripoli

AlekSmart

frackingishell wrote: »

Jonny 7, do you work in the PR wing of NATO? If it's anything LIKE the pentagon's PR wing (thousands of people working there) then it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that they'd have you on the payroll- one in each country, banging the NATO drum on the most active internet forums. When you think about it, it's a sound investment- how many people would you need for Europe- 30 or so?.
Your unflinching loyalty to the media, and never ending defense of positions you supposedly know as much as we do about via the bought media, is quite strange.

It's one way of looking at it Frackingshell,but I don't believe Jonny7 is actually a member of the firm,even in an associate capacity.

What is readily apparent from Jonny7's and a another "few good men" is the ease with which people identify and empathize with whatever message is to be delivered by the "Agency" of the day.

My reluctance to accept the all too neatly wrapped proof of Gadaffi's demon status stems from a certain admiration of the mans ability to run a vast,sparcely populated,desertified former Kingdom.

I remain impressed at this lunatics ability to apparently spend a significant amount of Libya's oil-revenues on Public Projects such as Housing,Food,Education and the gigantic Sandstone Aquifer Project.

I am also prepared to give Gadaffi credit for somehow or other ensuring that,unlike many of it's nearest neighbours,Libya never made world headlines for the regularity of its Famines or associated disasters.

When I point to these,and other aspects of Gadaffi's rule, which conflict with the,on-message,Tyrant & Despot definition,I am asked to disregard these as being somehow irrelevant to the current situation...."Oh give it a rest,yes yes yes,these are all well and good,but he was oppressing people,jailing and killing his enemies,especially those who attempted armed revolt"

I'm suggesting that some,as yet untold,element is at play here which as it unfolds further may not offer much benefit to those "Ordinary Libyans" whose plight so galvanized the U.N.into action.

frackingishell

Don't forget the interest free banking Alex!

just had a great laugh there watching channel 4 news. They were doing a report on British weapons firms, among them general Dynamics, selling weapons to Ghaddafi up until February.
The foreign office made a statement saying yes the weapons were sold, but they in no way ever sell weapons if they think they will be used in a repressive manner by a repressive government. These contracts were all approved and indeed sponsored by the British government, after the arms embargo ended in Libya.

So, what has changed since February? Suddenly Ghaddafi IS repressive??!?!?!?!?!?! Suddenly Obama says last week that "Ghaddafi systematically denied his people the most basic human rights?"

More hilarious contradictory rubbish, and yet another demonstration of how we are being fed pure bullsh*t via the idiot media, daily.

Nodin

frackingishell wrote: »

Don't forget the interest free banking Alex!

just had a great laugh there watching channel 4 news. They were doing a report on British weapons firms, among them general Dynamics, selling weapons to Ghaddafi up until February.
The foreign office made a statement saying yes the weapons were sold, but they in no way ever sell weapons if they think they will be used in a repressive manner by a repressive government. These contracts were all approved and indeed sponsored by the British government, after the arms embargo ended in Libya.

So, what has changed since February? Suddenly Ghaddafi IS repressive??!?!?!?!?!?! Suddenly Obama says last week that "Ghaddafi systematically denied his people the most basic human rights?"

More hilarious contradictory rubbish, and yet another demonstration of how we are being fed pure bullsh*t via the idiot media, daily.

Actually, its just 'Realpolitik' in action.

frackingishell

Nodin wrote: »

Actually, its just 'Realpolitik' in action.

So what's your point? because it has a catchy cold-war derived name, it's ok? Are you saying it's justified then because it's become the norm?? They are bombing another soverign nation, based on convaluted rubbish. ANd nwo theyre lying to us. It's sickening, whatever you want to call it. So your point is pretty pointless. I don't care what it's called.

Nodin

frackingishell wrote: »

So what's your point? because it has a catchy cold-war derived name, it's ok? .......

Perhaps if you read this....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

frackingishell

Nodin wrote: »

Perhaps if you read this....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

I know what it is....i just took your tone as one of justification for the real politik...tis difficult to read some things on the net without emoticons. My apologies if i took you up the wrong way.

Jonny7

frackingishell wrote: »

Jonny 7, do you work in the PR wing of NATO? If it's anything LIKE the pentagon's PR wing (thousands of people working there) then it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that they'd have you on the payroll- one in each country, banging the NATO drum on the most active internet forums. When you think about it, it's a sound investment- how many people would you need for Europe- 30 or so?.
Your unflinching loyalty to the media, and never ending defense of positions you supposedly know as much as we do about via the bought media, is quite strange.

Look, you claimed that NATO started a war in Iraq to get control of Iraq's banking system, I provided a rebuttal to that, if you have an issue with this, then provide evidence. If you've taken it personal then pm myself or a mod.

No need for any of the above, thanks.

Jonny7

AlekSmart wrote: »

My reluctance to accept the all too neatly wrapped proof of Gadaffi's demon status stems from a certain admiration of the mans ability to run a vast,sparcely populated,desertified former Kingdom.

Yes, but you are admiring a system that doesn't (didn't) allow freedom of speech, nor free elections.

Obelisk

I actually had an epiphany lately and finally figured out why people say Gaddafi is mad after seeing this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYB2RwDmnrw

(taken from another forum)

frackingishell

Great vid Obelisk

Jonny7

Its been reported that an ex-Bush official has been advising the Gaddafi regime.

Also purports that Kucinich (US representative) had been in contact with the regime to get evidence of corruption amongst the rebels

Interesting, will see how it develops.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8733942/Senior-Bush-diplomat-advised-Gaddafi-regime-to-the-end.html

nacho libre

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/30/america-s-secret-libya-war-u-s-spent-1-billion-on-covert-ops-helping-nato.html

Speaking of Bush, If Obombya was a Republican president some would be frothing at the mouth at this. Are we sure Bush didn't win a third term?

shadowninty

Loving the name "friends of Libya" for the conference... sounds so omnious.
Wonder how many of the countries are there simply for the purpose of getting exploitative contracts...

Jonny7

shadowninty wrote: »

Loving the name "friends of Libya" for the conference... sounds so omnious.
Wonder how many of the countries are there simply for the purpose of getting exploitative contracts...

I am guessing the roughly the same number who had "exploitative contracts" before the conflict

"Friends of Libya" sounds a bit dorky to be honest

Matt Holck

nacho libre wrote: »

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/30/america-s-secret-libya-war-u-s-spent-1-billion-on-covert-ops-helping-nato.html

Speaking of Bush, If Obombya was a Republican president some would be frothing at the mouth at this. Are we sure Bush didn't win a third term?

Obama is a warhead

AlekSmart

Obelisk wrote: »

I actually had an epiphany lately and finally figured out why people say Gaddafi is mad after seeing this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYB2RwDmnrw

(taken from another forum)

Ah come on now.....that lad has to be a stunt double....probably one of Gadaffi's enemies forced to stand in the jeep and be driven around Tripoli to see who'd be the first to pop him.....

After all it would be a true mark of lunacy for such a fellow to voluntarily parade in front of people who hate his very guts...?

And as for the Rothschild stuff.......that surely could'nt be true....are they Bilderburgers and Masons too ..???

shadowninty

Obelisk wrote: »

I actually had an epiphany lately and finally figured out why people say Gaddafi is mad after seeing this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYB2RwDmnrw

(taken from another forum)

lololol

Matt Holck wrote: »

Obama is a warhead

you would havd ppreferred hundreds of thousands of deaths..?? Did you oppose NATO intervention in Former Yugoslavia too?

Matt Holck

when I want 100,000's of deaths, I look to the Iraq war

where did they get the chemical weapons they used on the Kurds ?

I am not that familiar with Yugoslavia

shadowninty

Matt Holck wrote: »

when I want 100,000's of deaths, I look to the Iraq war

where did they get the chemical weapons they used on the Kurds ?

I am not that familiar with Yugoslavia

There was no rebellion in Iraq when it was invaded, and there was a minority of very mad people prepared to take lives
Im not aware of the history of Iraq's chemical weapons program, but I do know that Iraq was heavily armed by the US during the Iran-Iraq war...
Well your sig says "NO WAR"... I think if you knew the history of the collapse of Yugoslavia you might see that war is sometimes necessary when people deliberately kill civilians en masse.

AlekSmart

shadowninty wrote: »

Well your sig says "NO WAR"... I think if you knew the history of the collapse of Yugoslavia you might see that war is sometimes necessary when people deliberately kill civilians en masse.

Although I can sense Jonny7's eyes roling skyward,I'll say it again.....In this particular Libyan scenario we have not seen any evidence that Gadaffi deliberately attacked non-combatant civilians.

He did for certain make the most pointed and blood curdling threats against the Rebel Factions and their supporters,which I have absolutely no doubt he would have fulfilled to the letter.

But as this report from 25th Feb outlines the actual scale of Gadaffi Forces response appears to have been less than mass-murderous...

http://www.financialfeed.net/protesters-killed-in-tripoli-revolt-against-gaddafi/852143/

Also,allied to this,is when presented with an opportunity early on to obliterate Rebel stronghold,Benghazi,Gadaffi first gave vent to a full menu of deleted expletives and blood-curdling threats against Rebel's themselves and their supporters,then paused long enough for thousands of Benghazians to flee....

If Gadaffi was a real murderous oppressor,that would not have happened....no way !

One of the most restrained accounts of the Realpolitik of post-Gadaffi Libya is here....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/29/us-libya-tripoli-idUSTRE77S1JO20110829?feedType=RSS&feedName=everything&virtualBrandChannel=11563

"You media don't tell the truth, you're all traitors, spies," shouted a taxi driver, his face contorted with anger, not caring that nearby were armed and zealous rebels.

"You sold our country out," shouted another man who came to join him, before a deafening crack prompted the shoppers in the busy street to duck and flinch.

In Tripoli's Batata district, a shop worker ushered this reporter into a corner of the store, away from customers.

"Gaddafi gave us the best life. We were comfortable, we could go anywhere we wanted. Now we can't go out at all. I have friends in Gaddafi's army, and they will never surrender," the 20-year-old said.

"Before, arrogant or not, under Gaddafi there was no killing in the streets, no weapons. Now after the revolution, there's killing, fear. I wish he was still here," he said.

"There's more Gaddafi supporters than rebels here. But they can't act right now as we don't know what the future will be. They're waiting for Gaddafi to come back," he added.

"They are so many Gaddafi supporters here, but when the rebels came in we didn't point them out. They are our brothers, our neighbors," he said.

"If he doesn't have a gun and supports Gaddafi, so what? I've been living with them for years," he added.

One Abu Salim resident, voicing his antipathy toward the rebels, was not optimistic that Gaddafi loyalists would feel it was worth giving up the fight.

"There were no problems under Gaddafi. There was security. We haven't seen anything from the rebels. They have no planning. Looks what's happening. There's no light, no water," said Adel Farhati, 37, referring to water and power shortages.

Of course,we can disregard these sentiments as being heresay and complaints from the ancien régime,but for me they point to a now repressed and hidden Libya,which U.N./NATO saw fit to create....so,now what do they do with em..?

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Although I can sense Jonny7's eyes roling skyward,I'll say it again.....In this particular Libyan scenario we have not
seen any evidence that Gadaffi deliberately attacked non-combatant civilians.

(snip).................

Yep, they've been the model of restraint....

Pro al-Gaddafi forces left 19 detainees to die of suffocation while locked inside metal containers in the sweltering June heat in north-western Libya, Amnesty International has discovered.

http://www.amnesty.ie/news/trapped-metal-containers-and-left-die-gaddafi-forces

Amnesty International has uncovered evidence that forces loyal to Colonel Mu’ammar al-Gaddafi killed numerous detainees being held at two military camps in Tripoli on 23 and 24 August

http://www.amnesty.ie/news/al-gaddafi-loyalists-killing-prisoners

hmmm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Although I can sense Jonny7's eyes roling skyward,I'll say it again.....In this particular Libyan scenario we have not seen any evidence that Gadaffi deliberately attacked non-combatant civilians.

Oh for goodness sake, indiscriminate Grad rockets being fired into the cities of Misrata, Ajdabiya, Brega, Nafusa, Zawiyah? Or how about the use of cluster bombs on Misrata? How about the rounding up of thousands of civilians who were suspected of being pro-revolution?

Only last week, Gadaffi fired 3 SCUDs at the city of Misrata. Those things are only accurate to within a few miles so cities are the ideal target, thankfully it appears an imperialist NATO ship shot them down.

frackingishell

shadowninty wrote: »

lololol
you would havd ppreferred hundreds of thousands of deaths..?? Did you oppose NATO intervention in Former Yugoslavia too?

irrelevant, bizzare comment.

frackingishell

hmmm wrote: »

Oh for goodness sake, indiscriminate Grad rockets being fired into the cities of Misrata, Ajdabiya, Brega, Nafusa, Zawiyah? Or how about the use of cluster bombs on Misrata? How about the rounding up of thousands of civilians who were suspected of being pro-revolution?

Only last week, Gadaffi fired 3 SCUDs at the city of Misrata. Those things are only accurate to within a few miles so cities are the ideal target, thankfully it appears an imperialist NATO ship shot them down.

where are you getting all your info from and swallowing it without even chewing? The same media that lied to us in Iraq? Oh yeah. Cheers, just checking.

frackingishell

edited;
right now the 'friends of libya' conference are busy buzzing around the honeypot that theyve prised open for themselves in Libya. Numerous rapes are being discussed in every minute disgusting detail.

1 how much money will we start charging the Libyans for their loans?

2 how will we tell them that they can't have interest free laons anymore?

3 Which rebel leader do we need to bribe?

4 When will we tell them theyll have to pay for their water now?

5 Which country is gong to head up the central banking, to keep Rothschild happy?

6 How are we going to cut up the oil contracts?

These and many more rapes are occurring RIGHT now between shameless little bent-over, hypocritical worms inside a big conference hall. Pigs and sows all lined up at the trough to secure their little private swiss bank accounts, and their after political-career board of director positions.

This world makes me so f*cking sick to my stomach.

And the NATO apologists are the people i feel the most sorry for, more than the Libyans. The apologists and defenders on here are actually kidding hemselves for no reason. Its really very very sad.

frackingishell

edited;
right now the 'friends of libya' conference are busy buzzing around the honeypot that theyve prised open for themselves in Libya. Numerous rapes are being discussed in every minute disgusting detail.

1 how much money will we start charging the Libyans for their loans?

2 how will we tell them that they can't have interest free laons anymore?

3 Which rebel leader do we need to bribe?

4 When will we tell them theyll have to pay for their water now?

5 Which country is gong to head up the central banking, to keep Rothschild happy?

6 How are we going to cut up the oil contracts?

These and many more rapes are occurring RIGHT now between shameless little bent-over, hypocritical worms inside a big conference hall. Pigs and sows all lined up at the trough to secure their little private swiss bank accounts, and their after political-career board of director positions.

This world makes me so f*cking sick to my stomach.

And the NATO apologists are the people i feel the most sorry for, more than the Libyans. The apologists and defenders on here are actually kidding hemselves for no reason. Its really very very sad.

hmmm

frackingishell wrote: »

where are you getting all your info from and swallowing it without even chewing? The same media that lied to us in Iraq? Oh yeah. Cheers, just checking.

Weak response, this has been probably the most well documented war ever.

Here's a picture of the city centre of Misrata


Here's Gadaffi tanks shelling the same area

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKw4VO-IZL0

Just for completeness, the first 1 minute of this is my favourite bit of video from the whole war, as the people finally push your friend Gadaffi and his peacekeepers from the city centre.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBJc-v5G9KE

Matt Holck

I don't see any collapsed buildings ^

hmmm wrote: »

Oh for goodness sake, indiscriminate Grad rockets being fired into the cities of Misrata, Ajdabiya, Brega, Nafusa, Zawiyah? Or how about the use of cluster bombs on Misrata? How about the rounding up of thousands of civilians who were suspected of being pro-revolution?

Only last week, Gadaffi fired 3 SCUDs at the city of Misrata. Those things are only accurate to within a few miles so cities are the ideal target, thankfully it appears an imperialist NATO ship shot them down.

I thought missiles shooting down other missiles only happen in weapons demonstrations

that missile interception tech was only viable in laboratory settings

the idea that bombs in missiles are super accurate is fictional

Overheal

Matt Holck wrote: »

I thought missiles shooting down other missiles only happen in weapons demonstrations

that missile interception tech was only viable in laboratory settings

the idea that bombs in missiles are super accurate is fictional

Well that's hard to debate, as most of the sources I could reference would all be "Lab" sources, from firing ranges and such. Perhaps someone else knows some real world examples of ABM in action that I am not thinking of. But there is indeed tech to do it. In fact they are currently or have at least in the past been developing vehicle defense systems that can intercept a TOW Missile or RPG from as close as a few yards away as the firing point. The name of that particular program escapes me though. It was on Futureweapons, take from that what you will.

And I'm sure you might recall this incident from 2008 which stirred a bit of European controversy over the Debris Field: http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=35114 The basic details of the SM-3 ballistic interception missile can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-161_Standard_Missile_3 There is of course the more commonly known Patriot ABM system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_missile_defense but I would think the Navy AEGIS system is what would have intercepted any SCUDs with a Parabola on Mistrata using the SM-3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System

hmmm

Overheal wrote: »

but I would think the Navy AEGIS system is what would have intercepted any SCUDs with a Parabola on Mistrata using the SM-3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System

The initial reports were they were shot down by a plane, which is unlikely but not impossible. Subsequent reports were a US navy ship, which would indicate SM-3. SM-3 is pretty reliable at this stage, I believe Obama abandoned ground based interceptors in Europe and decided to go with SM-3 and variants as the missile shield to protect Europe from Iran.

The Israeli's have also put their first production Iron Dome systems into action in recent months, which are primarily used to intercept short range rockets (such as Grads). They had their first real action in the past few weeks, and performed perhaps better than the low expectations that had been set.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/08/22/uk-palestinians-israel-irondome-idUKTRE77L54W20110822

Nodin

Overheal wrote: »

............... It was on Futureweapons, take from that what you will.

..................

That the word "terrorist" was used more than once.....

frackingishell

BAHAHAHAHA!

this gets more and more pathetic every day.

kay Burley, the c*nt, on Skynews (and she's an opinionated biased c*nt for many reasons, not just this...) is no longer referring to the rebels as 'The rebels'.

They are now, 'the anti-ghaddafi' forces. This is really turning into the psychological hard sell from the bought right wing medias of NATO. They said 'anti-ghaddafi' about five times in a 1 minute segment. This is brainwashing at it's most blatant. Hilarioous, and quite sad really.

Sky news is a joke. maybe we'll get them banned soon like the canadians banned Murdoch's Fox news in Canada.

Overheal

Well they've become the winning side now haven't they. Wouldn't it be politically correct to refer to them as such? Ghaddafi is not really in authoritative control anymore.

That the word "terrorist" was used more than once.....

Yessss... I was careful with that reference. It is after all television.

Jonny7

frackingishell wrote: »

BAHAHAHAHA!

this gets more and more pathetic every day.

kay Burley, the c*nt, on Skynews (and she's an opinionated biased c*nt for many reasons, not just this...) is no longer referring to the rebels as 'The rebels'.

They are now, 'the anti-ghaddafi' forces. This is really turning into the psychological hard sell from the bought right wing medias of NATO. They said 'anti-ghaddafi' about five times in a 1 minute segment. This is brainwashing at it's most blatant. Hilarioous, and quite sad really.

Sky news is a joke. maybe we'll get them banned soon like the canadians banned Murdoch's Fox news in Canada.

In fairness they've been referred to as anti-Gaddafi forces for a good while now

http://english.aljazeera.net/video/africa/2011/02/201122843520385138.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/23/libya-free-benghazi-anti-gaddafi-troops
(the Guardian is hardly right wing)

frackingishell

Jonny7 wrote: »

In fairness they've been referred to as anti-Gaddafi forces for a good while now

http://english.aljazeera.net/video/africa/2011/02/201122843520385138.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/23/libya-free-benghazi-anti-gaddafi-troops
(the Guardian is hardly right wing)

true Jonny. But that Burley douche was calling them rebels three days ago. It's definitely a namechange wth a purpose.

i think maybe NTC is sufficient. Saying anti-ghaddafi is more side taking. And it's a phrase that, when repeated, will have an effect on the the brainwashed television loving public.

shadowninty

I can never understand how while the center left supports the idea of the intervention, the hard left doesnt. I thought the hard left were the ones who wanted better conditions for those without power and for these people to have a greater say, and to protect people from oppressive forces?

frackingishell

shadowninty wrote: »

I can never understand how while the center left supports the idea of the intervention, the hard left doesnt. I thought the hard left were the ones who wanted better conditions for those without power and for these people to have a greater say, and to protect people from oppressive forces?

you're making the mistake of trying to categorise people. Left, right, up down, centre or whatever, this isn't about any of that. this is about truth and lies.

It F**king wrecks my head when people base their perceptions and decisions on what side of the old political street people are perceived to be on. Its mentally so lazy, and a cop out for people, so they don't have to dwell on single issues. " Oh, i'm a rightwinger, so whatever, i'll support what my right wing peers support- i must be in favour of that, cos im a rightwinger etc etc and vice versa "

Shadowninty, don't put labels on groups of people to satisfy the human stereo-type friendly brain, and you won't create impassable barriers in your own mind on the road to understanding people's objections to NATO bombing and interfering in Libya.

shadowninty

Oh I'm just wondering, its just people who lean to the left are generally wired (unless its out of own self interest) towards wanting to help those who are in trouble even if they have never met anyone even related to them.

frackingishell

shadowninty wrote: »

Oh I'm just wondering, its just people who lean to the left are generally wired (unless its out of own self interest) towards wanting to help those who are in trouble even if they have never met anyone even related to them.

i get what youre saying, but i think it's a generalisation again.Many People just want to stand up for people, right or left. And NATO is riding roughshod over ALOT of people's in recent years. What with the central banks, and the Iraq invasion for oil, and now Libya, for no real valid reasons relative to other bad regimes, i think people are finally starting to say enough is enough.

shadowninty

frackingishell wrote: »

i get what youre saying, but i think it's a generalisation again.Many People just want to stand up for people, right or left. And NATO is riding roughshod over ALOT of people's in recent years. What with the central banks, and the Iraq invasion for oil, and now Libya, for no real valid reasons relative to other bad regimes, i think people are finally starting to say enough is enough.

NATO - I dont know what it has to do with central banks. With Iraq, it was not NATO who invaded as far as I know, Australia (the third largest foreign force of the four, isnt even in NATO), although I would agree that oil was a major reason for the invasion. Just because an organisation has made mistakes does not mean it is inherently bad. I dont see how when NATO actually does something with the support of the majority of the population, and the international community, has minimal civilian casualties (there were sadly some), and helps people rid themselves of an awful dictator, would make you finally get fed up with NATO.

hmmm

shadowninty wrote: »

I can never understand how while the center left supports the idea of the intervention, the hard left doesnt. I thought the hard left were the ones who wanted better conditions for those without power and for these people to have a greater say, and to protect people from oppressive forces?

Their hatred for all things the "West" does forces them into taking impossibly silly positions, such as supporting Gadaffi over his own people.

frackingishell

shadowninty wrote: »

NATO - I dont know what it has to do with central banks. With Iraq, it was not NATO who invaded as far as I know, Australia (the third largest foreign force of the four, isnt even in NATO), although I would agree that oil was a major reason for the invasion. Just because an organisation has made mistakes does not mean it is inherently bad. I dont see how when NATO actually does something with the support of the majority of the population, and the international community, has minimal civilian casualties (there were sadly some), and helps people rid themselves of an awful dictator, would make you finally get fed up with NATO.

one other thing on the central banking. Libya was one of the last contries on the planet to have a government controlled central bank- Now the Rotschild's have the Libyan money supply under their control aswell. Iraq was another til they were invaded.

If you want to understand how private central banking dictates military policy, with their controlling interests in Energy companies and the military indistrial complex., then educate yourself thoguh these two links. The world is one f*cked up place. And don't mind that 'hmmm' guy above, he's a WUM ( i think).

Make sure you watch those videos man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3sKwwAaCU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsmbWBpnCNk&feature=related

shadowninty

frackingishell wrote: »

one other thing on the central banking. Libya was one of the last contries on the planet to have a government controlled central bank- Now the Rotschild's have the Libyan money supply under their control aswell. Iraq was another til they were invaded.

If you want to understand how private central banking dictates military policy, with their controlling interests in Energy companies and the military indistrial complex., then educate yourself thoguh these two links. The world is one f*cked up place. And don't mind that 'hmmm' guy above, he's a WUM ( i think).

Make sure you watch those videos man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3sKwwAaCU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsmbWBpnCNk&feature=related

You didn't address my point.
Most places have a government owned central bank - they are kept somewhat seperate from the politicians but are accountable to them. The need for energy is a major influence in foreign policy of most countries, due to the voters lack of will, and in some countries, corrupt politicians (the Republicans in the US). However the US doesn't really get any oil from Libya. Its worth noting the US military is a bit overstreched, and they scaled down after the start of the intervention

hmmm

Lots of ungrateful Libyans in Green square tonight, people who don't realise how good Gadaffi was to them and how NATO are their enemies for getting rid of him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu9eCnOyHjk

AlekSmart

hmmm wrote: »

Lots of ungrateful Libyans in Green square tonight, people who don't realise how good Gadaffi was to them and how NATO are their enemies for getting rid of him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu9eCnOyHjk

Hmmmmm,It's early days yet,Hmmm.
The greater mass of Libyan's ain't stupid.

The lots of Gratefully Ungrateful folks in "Martyrs Square" could well be essentially the same as those who populated Green Square for the Colonel,when he was paying the bills.

Give it time until the actual "Benefits" of being "Free" Libyans actually percolate down to the street.

There are some positive elements to be found though,such as the modern Young Libyan Man not yet having discovered the "Hoodie"

lagente

Irish Libyan fighter filmed killing a man(supposedy pro-gaddafi) in Libya
seen at 2mins 58 seconds
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d22_1314916981

Man is named Sam, has Irish mother, Libyan father, strong irish accent.

hmmm

AlekSmart wrote: »

The lots of Gratefully Ungrateful folks in "Martyrs Square" could well be essentially the same as those who populated Green Square for the Colonel,when he was paying the bills.

Yeah, these people look like they were forced to attend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHyC4FMCEgI

AlekSmart

hmmm wrote: »

Yeah, these people look like they were forced to attend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHyC4FMCEgI

No,Hmmm,you mistake my point,I'm not suggesting that there's any force involved,except perhaps the one of self-preservation.

There are occassions where it's simply better to be seen as for something than agin it,and for a significant number of Tripolieans this could be one such....

This is the shakedown period where the power vacuum is greatest....the next phase will be the muscle flexing...fear not,there is a plan....

It,s interesting to note the age profile of the main combatants or perhaps the dearth of people over 25..?

I actually believe that in 12 months,should we return to this thread we may well be seeing a different perspective.

lagente

lagente wrote: »

Irish Libyan fighter filmed killing a man(supposedy pro-gaddafi) in Libya
seen at 2mins 58 seconds
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d22_1314916981

Man is named Sam, has Irish mother, Libyan father, strong irish accent.

Thread is here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056376789
incredible footage

nacho libre

lagente wrote: »

Thread is here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056376789
incredible footage

It will be interesting to hear Sam's perspective on Libyan society in a year's time. It will also be interesting to see the characteristics of the Libyan economy under the new regime.