O.T.B 2.1

P_1

That's a triple whammy if ever there was one, hope ye get better soon

Esoteric_

P_1 wrote: »

That's a triple whammy if ever there was one, hope ye get better soon

Ah, I'll be grand. I knew I had something wrong, but the anti-biotics and inhaler she's put me on are both strong so hopefully they'll kick in soon because I have work again tomorrow!

On the plus side, if the anti biotics are as strong as she says, I might go to bed high tonight!

P_1

Esoteric_ wrote: »

Ah, I'll be grand. I knew I had something wrong, but the anti-biotics and inhaler she's put me on are both strong so hopefully they'll kick in soon because I have work again tomorrow!

On the plus side, if the anti biotics are as strong as she says, I might go to bed high tonight!

A high is always good :pac:

Esoteric_

P_1 wrote: »

A high is always good :pac:

If they don't work, I'm sure I have old meds from when I had anxiety lying around, they gave a nice high back when I was ill enough to need them. :pac:

Fcuk, I'm such a junkie. Typical northsider. :pac:

P_1

Esoteric_ wrote: »

If they don't work, I'm sure I have old meds from when I had anxiety lying around, they gave a nice high back when I was ill enough to need them. :pac:

Fcuk, I'm such a junkie. Typical northsider. :pac:

Ha I could get into a mad philosophical waffle debate about perceived societal norms and all that jazz but I'd probably just bore everyone into tears :pac:

Esoteric_

P_1 wrote: »

Ha I could get into a mad philosophical waffle debate about perceived societal norms and all that jazz but I'd probably just bore everyone into tears :pac:

I'd actually quite like to hear that! :pac:

P_1

Esoteric_ wrote: »

I'd actually quite like to hear that! :pac:

Ok fair enough, society seems to have developed this notion that modifying your body in any capacity that is considered 'unusual' is something taboo. Now you can modify your body internally or externally.

Externally you can modify your body by wearing different clothes or cutting your hair a particular way. These modifications are considered to a large part to be ok. You can also modify your body by getting tattoos or piercings. Depending on who you ask these are still considered to be taboo.

Internally you can modify your body by injesting different chemicals. For example alcohol and caffeine are largely considered to be ok but other chemicals like nicotine, THC or other mild alternating substances are considered taboo depending on who you ask.

I think it boils down to people being nosy and insisting on interfering with other people's choices. Either that or people wanting everybody to appear and act in a uniform manner.

Esoteric_

P_1 wrote: »

Ok fair enough, society seems to have developed this notion that modifying your body in any capacity that is considered 'unusual' is something taboo. Now you can modify your body internally or externally.

Externally you can modify your body by wearing different clothes or cutting your hair a particular way. These modifications are considered to a large part to be ok. You can also modify your body by getting tattoos or piercings. Depending on who you ask these are still considered to be taboo.

Internally you can modify your body by injesting different chemicals. For example alcohol and caffeine are largely considered to be ok but other chemicals like nicotine, THC or other mild alternating substances are considered taboo depending on who you ask.

I think it boils down to people being nosy and insisting on interfering with other people's choices. Either that or people wanting everybody to appear and act in a uniform manner.

While I agree with most of your viewpoint, I think that, with respect to putting chemicals or drugs into your body, it's more a case of danger that makes them taboo. If alcohol were only discovered recently, it would probably be illegal because of its addictive and damaging nature.

I don't personally care what drugs, alcohol, body mods or whatever any other person has/takes/does, but, with regards to the ones being put internally into your body, a lot of the taboo is because of danger levels.

Of course, there's an element of appearances. I know plenty of people who use cocaine and other drugs recreationally. They're well dressed, intelligent, highly paid, success individuals, but that's not what you think of when you think of a drug user. You instantly think of the stereotype. Same as how some people instantly think 'scumbag' when they think of tattoos, I guess.

Frankly, I have no idea what I'm blathering on about anymore. I got bored halfway through writing this and stopped paying attention to what I was saying, or what point I was trying to make. :pac:

P_1

Esoteric_ wrote: »

While I agree with most of your viewpoint, I think that, with respect to putting chemicals or drugs into your body, it's more a case of danger that makes them taboo. If alcohol were only discovered recently, it would probably be illegal because of its addictive and damaging nature.

I don't personally care what drugs, alcohol, body mods or whatever any other person has/takes/does, but, with regards to the ones being put internally into your body, a lot of the taboo is because of danger levels.

Of course, there's an element of appearances. I know plenty of people who use cocaine and other drugs recreationally. They're well dressed, intelligent, highly paid, success individuals, but that's not what you think of when you think of a drug user. You instantly think of the stereotype. Same as how some people instantly think 'scumbag' when they think of tattoos, I guess.

Frankly, I have no idea what I'm blathering on about anymore. I got bored halfway through writing this and stopped paying attention to what I was saying, or what point I was trying to make. :pac:

Without a shadow of a doubt. A lot of it can be put down to a lack of education. By that I mean people not fully understanding the consequences (positive or negative) of their actions.

As a result of this lack of education a 'one size fits all' approach seems to have developed in relation to the majority of life's choices. What works for one person may not work for another person and because of that we tend to get stereotypes and all that other nastiness.

Esoteric_

P_1 wrote: »

Without a shadow of a doubt. A lot of it can be put down to a lack of education. By that I mean people not fully understanding the consequences (positive or negative) of their actions.

As a result of this lack of education a 'one size fits all' approach seems to have developed in relation to the majority of life's choices. What works for one person may not work for another person and because of that we tend to get stereotypes and all that other nastiness.

You're a dirty, tattooed junkie, aren't you?

Orim

Drugs are bad mmmkay.

But feck that if someone wants to do something then it's okay as long as it's not hurting anyone else.

P_1

Esoteric_ wrote: »

You're a dirty, tattooed junkie, aren't you?

Can I plead the 5th on that? :pac:

Orim wrote: »

Drugs are bad mmmkay.

But feck that if someone wants to do something then it's okay as long as it's not hurting anyone else.

The chemicals in the drugs themselves aren't that bad, what tends to cause the problems is how people chose to imbibe them, the way that the chemicals are extracted and how they are sold.

Esoteric_

P_1 wrote: »

Can I plead the 5th on that? :pac:



The chemicals in the drugs themselves aren't that bad, what tends to cause the problems is how people chose to imbibe them, the way that the chemicals are extracted and how they are sold.

Isn't it more the fact that the drugs are mind altering that worries people?

I'm never going to worry about a friend getting 'bad' acid. But, having seen a friend do some serious damage to himself while on a bad trip, there'll always be the worry there that something as highly mind altering as acid CAN have bad effects, even when taken 'correctly.'

Tbh, unless you've used it many times before, grow/produce/make your own drugs and have the same side effects each time you take them, you're never going to know what could happen when you take something mind altering.

I'm not anti-drug, although I no longer do any myself, but I can see why a lot of people ARE anti-drug.

Princess Peach

Orim wrote: »

Drugs are bad mmmkay.

But feck that if someone wants to do something then it's okay as long as it's not hurting anyone else.

Very rarely the case though

P_1

Esoteric_ wrote: »

Isn't it more the fact that the drugs are mind altering that worries people?

I'm never going to worry about a friend getting 'bad' acid. But, having seen a friend do some serious damage to himself while on a bad trip, there'll always be the worry there that something as highly mind altering as acid CAN have bad effects, even when taken 'correctly.'

Tbh, unless you've used it many times before, grow/produce/make your own drugs and have the same side effects each time you take them, you're never going to know what could happen when you take something mind altering.

I'm not anti-drug, although I no longer do any myself, but I can see why a lot of people ARE anti-drug.

Its an interesting one to think about tbh.

There are so many different variables with the human body that it can be tricky to pinpoint how mind altering something would be.

Take somebody who takes some cocaine a few hours after drinking a red bull following an energy sapping run. Now you have a good few variables to think of here. Was it?

The cocaine, which probably caused the heartrate to increase and pumped different chemicals to the brain.
The red bull, which again probably caused the heartrate to increase and pumped different chemicals into the brain.
The run, which probably caused the energy levels of the body to decrease, again pumping different chemicals into the brain.
A combination of all 3 perhaps?

Anyway I should probably stop waffling now

Esoteric_

I'm happy.

Was talking to my mate, who is also my sound engineer. He recorded my first EP of music for me a year ago, shortly after I started singing and playing, which was all covers.

He's finally found some free time in June to dedicate two weeks to recording an album of originals that I've written, play and sing myself, AND has asked me to do vocals on a song that he's written for his band. That could possibly mean I go back to doing gigs (haven't bothered to do any in months), because the band gigs anywhere between 3-6 nights a week and will need me if they're doing that song that he wants me to do vocals for.

Happy days Can't bloody wait to start recording again!

Marty McFly

Arent we a very philosophical bunch tonight :cool:.

I wont lie Ive pretty much tried nearly all drugs under the sun I could get my hands on at one stage and at one stage was a heavy weed smoker but don't do drugs anymore bar the odd lil cocaine slip or something once a year when im pished.

I do think most bar heroin should be legalised so as they can be regulated and taxed cutting out drug dealing scumbags(criminal element) and so that people will know exactly what they are taking and what goes into the drug there taking.

I know that is not popular with the majority of people but im quite liberal when it comes to drugs and look at any a&e room around Ireland at weekends and you will see alcohol is the most dangerous of all drugs.

I've done drugs and never had any effects on other people as do the majority, heroin on the other hand anyone Ive completely different views on, which could be considered hypocritical I know.

Esoteric_

Marty McFly wrote: »

Arent we a very philosophical bunch tonight :cool:.

I wont lie Ive pretty much tried nearly all drugs under the sun I could get my hands on at one stage and at one stage was a heavy weed smoker but don't do drugs anymore bar the odd lil cocaine slip or something once a year when im pished.

I do think most bar heroin should be legalised so as they can be regulated and taxed cutting out drug dealing scumbags(criminal element) and so that people will know exactly what they are taking and what goes into the drug there taking.

I know that is not popular with the majority of people but im quite liberal when it comes to drugs and look at any a&e room around Ireland at weekends and you will see alcohol is the most dangerous of all drugs.

I've done drugs and never had any effects on other people as do the majority, heroin on the other hand anyone Ive completely different views on, which could be considered hypocritical I know.

Don't forget crack, that's almost as bad as heroin. :pac:

Tbh, I've also done everything under the sun, and while I don't do anything now, I'm sure I will again at some stage if I get drunk enough and some K, blow or yokes are in the vicinity, but eh, I know what effect that stuff has on me and I'm not hurting anyone else.

Legalising it, I'm unsure on. I see the pros. I also see the cons. If alcohol and nicotine were discovered now, there's no way they'd be made legal. I dunno about the legality issue, but eh, I don't care who does them tbh.

P_1

Marty McFly wrote: »

Arent we a very philosophical bunch tonight :cool:.

I wont lie Ive pretty much tried nearly all drugs under the sun I could get my hands on at one stage and at one stage was a heavy weed smoker but don't do drugs anymore bar the odd lil cocaine slip or something once a year when im pished.

I do think most bar heroin should be legalised so as they can be regulated and taxed cutting out drug dealing scumbags(criminal element) and so that people will know exactly what they are taking and what goes into the drug there taking.

I know that is not popular with the majority of people but im quite liberal when it comes to drugs and look at any a&e room around Ireland at weekends and you will see alcohol is the most dangerous of all drugs.

I've done drugs and never had any effects on other people as do the majority, heroin on the other hand anyone Ive completely different views on, which could be considered hypocritical I know.

TBH I'd be the same really, I'd be fairly liberal on most issues (even though I hate applying any 'labels' to myself).

One of my favourite books is John Stuart Mill's 'On Liberty' I'd recommend giving it a read. One of my next pieces is hopefully going to incorporate some of the text from this passage.

The object of this Essay is to assert one very simple principle, as entitled to govern absolutely the dealings of society with the individual in the way of compulsion and control, whether the means used be physical force in the form of legal penalties, or the moral coercion of public opinion. That principle is, that the sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right... The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.

Esoteric_

P_1 wrote: »

TBH I'd be the same really, I'd be fairly liberal on most issues (even though I hate applying any 'labels' to myself).

One of my favourite books is John Stuart Mill's 'On Liberty' I'd recommend giving it a read. One of my next pieces is hopefully going to incorporate some of the text from this passage.

That quote can be used in a different way, though. I agree with you and Marty, but that quote could be taken out of context slightly in that the opposition could argue that the person taking a mind altering substance may affect more than just him/herself. Nobody truly knows what will happen when you use something mind altering, alcohol included.

Angron

I fair few of my friends do the green occasionally. I can't touch the stuff though, I find it really messes with my anti-depressants and I'm all over the place for ages.

P_1

Esoteric_ wrote: »

That quote can be used in a different way, though. I agree with you and Marty, but that quote could be taken out of context slightly in that the opposition could argue that the person taking a mind altering substance may affect more than just him/herself. Nobody truly knows what will happen when you use something mind altering, alcohol included.

That's true, I guess it depends on what you would define as 'harm to others'.

I mean I think that we can all agree that punching or robbing from a random stranger is causing them harm. Does having a tattoo that somehow offends this random stranger also cause them harm?

The JD and coke has been poured so I find myself in a very philosophical mood this evening :pac:

Marty McFly

[QUOTE=Esoteric_;83771753

Legalising it, I'm unsure on. I see the pros. I also see the cons. If alcohol and nicotine were discovered now, there's no way they'd be made legal. I dunno about the legality issue, but eh, I don't care who does them tbh.[/QUOTE]


There is definitely pros and cons to both sides of it no doubting that but for me the pros of legalising outweigh the cons. Just look at what happened in America when they tried to introduce prohibition anarchy, with drugs being illegal we are encouraging the anarchy on a global basis.

At least if it was legalized it would make so much tax for goverments it would be unreal cut out the whole gangland side of it and we can regulate what does and doesnt go into drugs also set limits on what people can buy, spend were they can do it, were live in a civilized world were one the biggest causes of death and destruction in our society is the drug trade now imagine if we the civilized people took control of that from the ruthless bloodthirsty gangs.

Esoteric_

Marty McFly wrote: »

There is definitely pros and cons to both sides of it no doubting that but for me the pros of legalising outweigh the cons. Just look at what happened in America when they tried to introduce prohibition anarchy, with drugs being illegal we are encouraging the anarchy on a global basis.

At least if it was legalized it would make so much tax for goverments it would be unreal cut out the whole gangland side of it and we can regulate what does and doesnt go into drugs also set limits on what people can buy, spend were they can do it, were live in a civilized world were one the biggest causes of death and destruction in our society is the drug trade now imagine if we the civilized people took control of that from the ruthless bloodthirsty gangs.

See, that's the main thing that causes me to WANT to legalise it. It can be taxed, we'd know where the drugs come from and what they contain, happy days.

However, a lot of teenagers would do it 'just because they can.'

The rate of young alcoholics (I'm talking people my age, and younger) is rising year on year. Alcohol is seen as a 'norm' because it is legal, and therefore a lot of people drink. What happens if drugs go the same way? Is it not bad enough having huge numbers of alcohol and nicotine addicts without making it even easier for people to become addicted to, or sustain an addiction to, drugs?

P_1

I think the problem with alcohol is that the positives are overly advertised (understandable seeing as all the companies want to sell their products) but the negatives are glossed over (I mean who is going to want to buy something that can cause you to get sick and feel pretty lousy the morning after).

Also a lot of people just don't seem to be capable of independent thought. All they seem to consider are the positives and the negatives aren't given a second thought.

Princess Peach

No drugs for me, thank you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q51Q7N2ANk

Esoteric_

God, I love Saved by the Bell.

Marty McFly

Esoteric_ wrote: »

See, that's the main thing that causes me to WANT to legalise it. It can be taxed, we'd know where the drugs come from and what they contain, happy days.

However, a lot of teenagers would do it 'just because they can.'

The rate of young alcoholics (I'm talking people my age, and younger) is rising year on year. Alcohol is seen as a 'norm' because it is legal, and therefore a lot of people drink. What happens if drugs go the same way? Is it not bad enough having huge numbers of alcohol and nicotine addicts without making it even easier for people to become addicted to, or sustain an addiction to, drugs?

Yeh but we already have the same problem with drugs I myself smoked hash from every day at the age of 14, by legalizing drugs we could make it harder for underage kids to get there hands on drugs that are readily available, wit the tax made from the income of drugs a lot of the money could be pumped into better educating our own society on drugs use and dangers which would hopefully lead to people when they get older being more responsible with there use off all drugs.

All we have to do is look at other cultures relationship with alcohol compared to our own to show it ca be done,, it would take time and money but could be done.

Plus we already have huge amounts of drug addicts on our streets it can't get any worse.

P_1

Marty McFly wrote: »

Yeh but we already have the same problem with drugs I myself smoked hash from every day at the age of 14, by legalizing drugs we could make it harder for underage kids to get there hands on drugs that are readily available, wit the tax made from the income of drugs a lot of the money could be pumped into better educating our own society on drugs use and dangers which would hopefully lead to people when they get older being more responsible with there use off all drugs.

All we have to do is look at other cultures relationship with alcohol compared to our own to show it ca be done,, it would take time and money but could be done.

Plus we already have huge amounts of drug addicts on our streets it can't get any worse.

One of the main problems with drugs at the moment is that there is simply no standard or control over the end product save for market forces. Literally everything else that is consumed has to follow some basic standard before it gets to the consumer.

Also there is the 'its banned so therefore I must have it' factor to be considered too.

Star Lord

Some of you may want to go back over your posts and revise what you've been saying.

You should all realize at this stage that anything you post online can be traced back to you right?
Posting about what you do, what you have done, and what you will do is a very easy way to get yourself in a whole lot of trouble, because if you don't know, if the gardai go to Boards with the right paperwork requesting your information, it has to be handed over.

Use some common sense, and be careful about what you're posting anywhere.