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What exactly is 'Software Engineering'?
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Just as an aside: a "programmer" may not be a person who actually writes code - their task may be that of data entry - "programming" the machine. Not quite so black and white as claimed herein.
Not that I want to confuse matters, you understand
That level of abstraction is beyond my comprehension in terms of relating it to this thread. For anyone like me out there who is still learning to use an abacus, could you substantiate that with an example relevant to the thread, ie specific application of said "programming" task in a commercial environment, thanks.0 -
Just as an aside: a "programmer" may not be a person who actually writes code - their task may be that of data entry - "programming" the machine. Not quite so black and white as claimed herein.
Not that I want to confuse matters, you understand
Data entry is not programming, programming refers specifically to the design/creation/maintenance of the source code for a piece of software.0 -
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To program: "Provide (a computer or other machine) with coded instructions for the automatic performance of a particular task"
Yes, it is a level of abstraction above. In part to demonstrate the irrelevance of any definitive answer on this thread. There are no black and white answers here.
As you say, its completely irrelevant as my definition is from somewhere else
Still though its an internet forum, arguing irrelevant semantics is what its all about
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Procasinator wrote: »He must be a software engineer, they are more cocky than developers. :P
In case anyone was wondering, I posted the picture of programmers at the ENIAC machine to hammer a point home that programmer is hard to define, as the abstractions are many. Another good picture might be of a GUI based programming system, where you drag and drop sensors about the place. Then we can argue what it means to be a programmer, and if you have to be a programmer to be a software developer, and at what level of abstraction. When does it become an engineer?
The photo is of Gloria Ruth Gordon and Ester Gerston, by the way.
LOL so he didnt even get the people in the picture right when attempting to patronize the other users, love it 0 -
Procasinator wrote: »He must be a software engineer, they are more cocky than developers. :P
In case anyone was wondering, I posted the picture of programmers at the ENIAC machine to hammer a point home that programmer is hard to define, as the abstractions are many. Another good picture might be of a GUI based programming system, where you drag and drop sensors about the place. Then we can argue what it means to be a programmer, and if you have to be a programmer to be a software developer, and at what level of abstraction. When does it become an engineer?
The photo is of Gloria Ruth Gordon and Ester Gerston, by the way.
I think I'm coming around to your way of thinking now, So what you're saying is if I sit on a chair in my kitchen, hold a plat in one hand and a wooden spoon in the other and make broom broom noises that I'm a driver? 0 -
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I keep trying to post on this thread, and keep tying myself up trying to decide what certain titles are.
Basically the whole thing is just a mess. There's a lot of different titles, split between 2 or 3 different classifications of titles. There's qualifications, job titles, and arguably job roles. And where it gets really messy is that many/most titles overlap between them depending who/when/how they are used.
Software Engineer is really a qualification, not a job role, but many jobs will be advertised with their title being Software Engineer, even though what they normally want is a Developer or a Programmer. When they actually do want a Software Engineer the ad is normally for job titled Architect.
An Operator is normally someone who just uses a computer, which is really just Data Entry, but can refer to someone who Administers a system, usually a mainframe, or it could also refer to some who Programs a machine (CAM machinery for e.g), so this could also be described as a Programmer.
Programmer and Developer are often interchangeable, but not always (like in the above CAM e.g.). Developer is often described as Junior or Senior, but there's no set levels of experience for either of these, or set roles or responsibilities. In some places a Senior Developer would just be a normal Developer, in others they would be a Team Lead but still a Programmer, in others they would take the role of Architect, or any combination of the above. Equally a Junior Developer role could contain any combination of the above, but probably at less pay than a Senior role.
An Analyst role may almost exclusively consist of Programming, or may contain nothing even close to Programming, or anywhere in between. Likewise for a Consultant role, only more so.
The point I'm hopefully starting to make clear is that there's lots of titles, most of which are are only vaguely related to what they actually involve, none of them define or completely encapsulate what they involve. And there's very little point arguing over them because even if you finally manage to agree, no one else will 0 -
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