Anyone done any Azure/Cloud programming

yop

Lads
Developing a new system and we are going using MS Azure.

Anyone done any development on Azure, how are you finding it?
Has your thinking changed much in developing on Azure?

Thanks

D Hayes

I'm currently developing an site for Azure. The decision was made mid-way through the development to host it on Azure, so we're not availing of Azure Storage, rather we're going with Azure SQL.

It was quite easy to alter the project (ASP.Net MVC 3) to make it work on the cloud.

Two resources I am using are:

Azure in Action book: excellent book that covers the theory well

Official Azure Developer site: great examples etc.

If you are a start up, you may be eligible for BizSpark. Good deals to be had here with Azure, in terms of monthly usage.

D Hayes

Just to add to the above - if you haven't begun your project yet, consider using Azure Table Storage as opposed to a relational SQL database. Depending on your project, it may be a better solution.

yop

buysellswap wrote: »

Just to add to the above - if you haven't begun your project yet, consider using Azure Table Storage as opposed to a relational SQL database. Depending on your project, it may be a better solution.

Thanks for the info, we are on Bizspark and are using the program so that is great.
Is there much of a difference between table storage and the relational SQL database?

I have a DB up there on Azure SQL already and its highly dependent on triggers and will be using Azure Reporting also.

Thanks

D Hayes

In terms of the database architecture, there is a big difference. In terms of querying it from your app, there's not much of a difference. I don't know how triggers etc. work in table storage.

There's a good section in Azure in Action explaining the differences, along with a Hello World example. Well worth checking it out if you can get your hands on a pdf of it.

A mate of mine is developing a data-heavy site and he re-wrote the app to use Table Storage. He has seen a significant improvement in site speed since making the change.

amen

its highly dependent on triggers

why is your application highly dependent on triggers? Triggers have their uses but I wouldn't expect to see an application that is highly dependent on them.

yop

amen wrote: »

why is your application highly dependent on triggers? Triggers have their uses but I wouldn't expect to see an application that is highly dependent on them.

The business rules are stored in the database, the triggers run on the insert and update and validate the data against these rules and create other data then for use within the application.

JimmyCrackCorn

yop wrote: »

The business rules are stored in the database, the triggers run on the insert and update and validate the data against these rules and create other data then for use within the application.

One thing to note Sql profiler will not work on azure. An application with triggers everywhere can be a pig to debug normally, its going to be even more fun when you cant use profiler.

yop

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

One thing to note Sql profiler will not work on azure. An application with triggers everywhere can be a pig to debug normally, its going to be even more fun when you cant use profiler.

Thanks for that, I had read it wasn't available yet, there are a few features you can vote on to get added, that was one I saw.

The DB triggers were implemented over 6 months ago and tested and are been used in a desktop app we have here so they got a great hammering!
The won't change significantly so that should get around that.

Thanks though for the heads up.

amen

The business rules are stored in the database, the triggers run on the insert and update and validate the data against these rules and create other data then for use within the application

Personally I think this is dreadful idea. A database in general should be used to store data and any process accessing the data should be quick read/writes.

Using triggers to implement data rules is in my mind a bad idea. A change in business rule requires a change in triggers.

If I was doing this I would have business rules some where else and these business rules verify the data and once verified the data is then saved. If there data doesn't pass the business rules that user has a chance to correct.

With your triggers methods you are making expensive calls to a database with data that may fail and then potentially returning invalid data to the user (again expensive calls).

It would be interesting to see your save performance in particular how your application scales to support 100-1000s of concurrent users.

Have you also though about you are going to support changing business and how you would grandfather a rule using triggers?

yop

amen wrote: »

Personally I think this is dreadful idea. A database in general should be used to store data and any process accessing the data should be quick read/writes.

Using triggers to implement data rules is in my mind a bad idea. A change in business rule requires a change in triggers.

If I was doing this I would have business rules some where else and these business rules verify the data and once verified the data is then saved. If there data doesn't pass the business rules that user has a chance to correct.

With your triggers methods you are making expensive calls to a database with data that may fail and then potentially returning invalid data to the user (again expensive calls).

It would be interesting to see your save performance in particular how your application scales to support 100-1000s of concurrent users.

Have you also though about you are going to support changing business and how you would grandfather a rule using triggers?

You don't understand the way the system works in fairness so it been dreadful is based on your lack of understanding of the system we have developed.
It nothing to do with the data been validated and returned to the user if incorrect.
The business rules are algorithms wrote over long period and transformed into the database.
A change to the business rule won't effect the trigger.

Thanks for the input, but your going down the wrong route totally.

amen

You don't understand the way the system works in fairness so it been dreadful is based on your lack of understanding of the system we have developed

true. I don't mean to disparage your business or way of working. I'm all for what works for a person/team.

amen

Ops posted too soon. I would be interested in learning more though if you weren't breaking any IP.

yop

amen wrote: »

Ops posted too soon. I would be interested in learning more though if you weren't breaking any IP.

No can do, the IP is based within those rules so can't disclose them I am afraid.

Sorry.

Freddio

You can connect to a SQL Azure database and debug using SQL Server Client 2008 R2

yop

Freddio wrote: »

You can connect to a SQL Azure database and debug using SQL Server Client 2008 R2

But you can't see the data between the app and the DB as profiler isn't there.

Its handy been able to see it "locally", but as you said it has to have R2 installed .

Freddio

You can get SQL Server 2008 R2 on bizspark :-)

yop

Freddio wrote: »

You can get SQL Server 2008 R2 on bizspark :-)

Already done