Stove installation for dummies

Caitriona

We're toying with the idea of getting a stove in before the winter, but we've 2 problems; we need to keep the budget as small as possible, and we don't have much of a clue what's involved.

I've had a read of the 39 page stoves thread in this forum but it has my brain melted :rolleyes: I'm not a DIYer and while DH is, he hasn't done anything like this before.

What I do know is the following:
- We'd like the Stanley Oisin stove. The room is about 5m x 4m so it seems the right size and we like the look of it. We don't want the boiler version.
- It would be going in an existing fireplace (more or less along the lines of the one below). The house is 8 years old.

My questions are as follows:
- The stove manual says that there should be 'combustible clearance' of various distances in each direction. Does that mean we have to take out the fireplace insert and have clear space all around the stove, or is the insert okay because it's not combustible?
- If we did want to take the insert out and just have a bit hole in the wall (which I like the look of anyway), what's involved in that? What's behind the insert usually?
- What's the best combination of safety and reasonable price when it comes to flues?
- How easy is it to do the installation yourself? My husband is pretty competent at DIY - he knocked through into the unfinished space under our stairs, finished the walls and floor, put in power and a light and made a door to fit, so I think he should be able to put a stove in as long as he knows exactly what's involved. Is that a reasonable assumption or should we just get someone to do it?

cnocbui

I installed my own, without prior experience. There is nothing particularly difficult about it - well at least as far as my layout was concerned.

The combustible clearance means there should be nothing made of a combustible substance - like a wood surround or mantelpiece - within the specified distance. The reason is that if the stove was filled with fuel, the air control fully opened and you went away and forgot about it, the stove could run full-tilt and the body could get so hot that it could radiate enough heat to cause combustible materials nearby to ignite, even without them touching the stove.

The budget solution to flues seems to be to fit an adapter at the lower flue opening to adapt between the stoves flue size and the installed flue, which is likely to be a larger diameter.

While the cheapest option, it is not the safest or very recommended.

The whole idea of stoves is that they are many, many times more efficient than an open fire. An open fire puts most of it's heat up the flue, so the flue gases are hot. Being hot, they transport uncombusted combustion products like creosote up the flue and out of the house.

Now a stove extracts a higher proportion of the heat in the fuel and transfers it to the room, so there is less heat going up the flue and the flue gases are consequently cooler. Because of this, the unburnt combustion products are more prone to condensing on the walls of the relatively colder flue. Cresote is flamable, and if it is allowed to build up, it can ignite leading to a chimney fire and likely substantial damage to the house.

The recommended flue solution, therefore, is to fit a flexible stainless steel/titanium flue liner inside the existing flue and to fill the gap between it and the old flue with insulation like vermiculite. This is what I did.

The better quality liners are rated to withstand and contain a chimney fire. With an insulated flexible flue liner, they heat up very quickly compared to a ceramic flue liner backed by sand and/or masonry, so the stoves flue gases stay hot and greatly reduce the rate of creosote condensation.

Fitting involves tying a rope to the end of the liner and someone on the roof pulling it up the flue while another person guides it into the flue opening. Or vice versa.

The liner is then fitted to a blocking plate at the the lower opening of the flue with screws and a fire proof sealer. Then vermiculite is slowly poured down the gap between liner and flue. I fabricated a cardboard collar/hopper to make this easier. A calm day is best for this bit otherwise the vermiculite tends to blow away while being poured.

The top excess length of liner can then be cut off and a another blocking plate and cowl combo fitted and everything sealed.

Then the stove can be fitted to the opening to the liner with appropriate fittings.

I was actually able to fit my liner directly to the stove so It just passed through a hole in the bottom blanking plate, making just one joint at the stove needing to be sealed. Probably not recommended but my liner was of the highest quality and nine years on not the slightest problem.

cnocbui

Oh, the other thing you need is the stove has to stand on a suitable non-flammable surface that extends a minimum specified distance to the sides and front of the stove. I think it's 300mm to the sides and possibly a bit more at the front.

JuliusCaesar

Caitriona wrote: »

I've had a read of the 39 page stoves thread in this forum but it has my brain melted :rolleyes:

I feel for you! I've done the same and spent the last few weekends going to stove shops/showrooms. The more information I get, the more everybody seems to contradict everyone else.

Caitriona wrote: »

What I do know is the following:
- We'd like the Stanley Oisin stove. The room is about 5m x 4m so it seems the right size and we like the look of it. We don't want the boiler version.
- It would be going in an existing fireplace (more or less along the lines of the one below). ...

- If we did want to take the insert out and just have a bit hole in the wall (which I like the look of anyway), what's involved in that? What's behind the insert usually?

Can't help with the DIY, but here's the info that I finally think is fairly reliable. I've a similar fireplace with a similar inset/fireback (the black/castiron thing) and mantel; I hate them both. First everyone said that I'd have to go with a specific insert stove (Arched Insert Stove with sectional adaptors - 699.00) that'd fit in with the curved top inset, as anything else would be mad expensive. In fact one quote I got was for 4100.00 for stove + new mantle (v similar to the one I want rid of - the guy in the shop obviously wasn't listening, even though he even came to the house :rolleyes:). Then a friend of a friend had a stove installed with new mantle for 2K, so I rethought.

Next shop said Boru Croi Beag 649 + 250 for inset, and 150 installation........but 400 on top to remove the old inset and mantle. No mention of flue, even though I told them the house is 80 years old.

I'm between the Stovax Rive 40 in silver (my favourite - but looks like 999.00 gulp!), the Boru Croi Beag, Waterford Stanley Cara, and the Stockton 7 at the moment. Oh no, I've just come across the TR4 which seems to e Irish and much cheaper than the others! AS I'm working 9-5, it's actually quite difficult to decide as I'm working off the internet and questions at one showroom per weekend. Very hard to get stove prices!

Stove Fan

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I feel for you! I've done the same and spent the last few weekends going to stove shops/showrooms. The more information I get, the more everybody seems to contradict everyone else.



Can't help with the DIY, but here's the info that I finally think is fairly reliable. I've a similar fireplace with a similar inset/fireback (the black/castiron thing) and mantel; I hate them both. First everyone said that I'd have to go with a specific insert stove (Arched Insert Stove with sectional adaptors - 699.00) that'd fit in with the curved top inset, as anything else would be mad expensive. In fact one quote I got was for 4100.00 for stove + new mantle (v similar to the one I want rid of - the guy in the shop obviously wasn't listening, even though he even came to the house :rolleyes:). Then a friend of a friend had a stove installed with new mantle for 2K, so I rethought.

Next shop said Boru Croi Beag 649 + 250 for inset, and 150 installation........but 400 on top to remove the old inset and mantle. No mention of flue, even though I told them the house is 80 years old.

I'm between the Stovax Rive 40 in silver (my favourite - but looks like 999.00 gulp!), the Boru Croi Beag, Waterford Stanley Cara, and the Stockton 7 at the moment. Oh no, I've just come across the TR4 which seems to e Irish and much cheaper than the others! AS I'm working 9-5, it's actually quite difficult to decide as I'm working off the internet and questions at one showroom per weekend. Very hard to get stove prices!

Hi, As you don't like the existing surround and fireplace it may be possible to open the fireplace up and inset a freestanding stove? An inset stove would be the least hassle but the timber surround and cast iron insert would need to be removed. I think a new inset stove using your existing timber surround would be too near the stove. Out of your choices the stovax riva 40.
As your house is 80 years old I would definately have the chimney lined, even if it's in good condition. Lining is a much better job and makes sweeping easier and the installation much safer if there was a chimney fire.
Have you considered a woodwarm fireview7 or clearview vision inset? These do cost far more but worth it. Very good quality. Have a look at www.whatstove.co.uk for different inset stove reviews by owners.
Woodwarm inset stove.
http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/65kwinsetfireview.ashx

Good luck in your search:)

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan

Caitriona wrote: »

We're toying with the idea of getting a stove in before the winter, but we've 2 problems; we need to keep the budget as small as possible, and we don't have much of a clue what's involved.

I've had a read of the 39 page stoves thread in this forum but it has my brain melted :rolleyes: I'm not a DIYer and while DH is, he hasn't done anything like this before.

What I do know is the following:
- We'd like the Stanley Oisin stove. The room is about 5m x 4m so it seems the right size and we like the look of it. We don't want the boiler version.
- It would be going in an existing fireplace (more or less along the lines of the one below). The house is 8 years old.

My questions are as follows:
- The stove manual says that there should be 'combustible clearance' of various distances in each direction. Does that mean we have to take out the fireplace insert and have clear space all around the stove, or is the insert okay because it's not combustible?
- If we did want to take the insert out and just have a bit hole in the wall (which I like the look of anyway), what's involved in that? What's behind the insert usually?
- What's the best combination of safety and reasonable price when it comes to flues?
- How easy is it to do the installation yourself? My husband is pretty competent at DIY - he knocked through into the unfinished space under our stairs, finished the walls and floor, put in power and a light and made a door to fit, so I think he should be able to put a stove in as long as he knows exactly what's involved. Is that a reasonable assumption or should we just get someone to do it?

Either way to make a safe installation the surround and insert will need to be removed.

Option one.

Remove existing fireplace. The wall behind the stove would need to be plaster and not drylined/ plasterboard and painted in emulsion. Install new hearth that projects 300mm infront of the stove and 150mm at the sides. I like wider as it's good for placing the fire utensils on. Bearing in mind that the hearth should have concrete below and not over wood and be a certain thickness. You can get stoves that are ok for a 12mm hearth over flammable materials. The stove would then be placed in front of the chimney and flued either horizontally, max 150mm horizontally into the chimney. Or vertically with a 45 degree bend and into the chimney. The first option is easier although you would really want to be able to join the stoves flue outlet to the teracotta flue liner so that any soot falls into the stove and does not build up behind the stove/ steel plate. (Fire hazard)

Option 2.

Remove old surround and clay fireback and install the stove into the fireplace. I dont think this would be an option as the fireplace was built for the open fire in mind and you would need 150mm clearance either side of the stove to the sides of the fireplace opening and 300mm above.

I personally think in your situation an inset stove would be best and have it installed by a profesional:)

Stove Fan