Prone Position

tommyboy26

I was in the midlands range yesterday shooting my .308 at 100 yards from a bench. i decided to move down to the 300 metre range. i have tried shooting prone a few times and never found it comfortable. this would be a problem if i ever try to shoot longer as there is no benchs to shoot from past 300 yards. So i decided to try it again anyone i have ever seen lies in a straight line with the rifle. i find this very uncomfortable. i messed around with my position to the rifle till i could get comfortable. i finally got comfortable with my legs between the seven and eight o clock position. im just wondering does anyone else lie this way or what way they lie?


tommy

Comeraghshooter

Always lie in a straight line with the inside of my boots flat on the ground.

Sparks

Moved to Target Shooting.

And no, not everyone uses that position, but most do:



FLOYDSTER, It Wasn't Me or Conor could tell you better, but there are very good reasons for that position...
...and then again, some folks manage to shoot with their legs almost dead on in the six-o-clock position (mostly russians for some reason). But for beginners, we always put them at an angle to the rifle so it's easier to get into position.


(there's no excuse for those flares though )

Cass

I never lie straight behind the rifle. Its just not comfortable. I lie at 8 o clock to the rifle. I've had loads of people tell me its wrong, but it works for me. I alternate between my legs out stretched and spread apart with the insoles flat against the ground to one leg straight out and the other bent but again with the insoles facing the ground.

Shooting from a bench and shooting from the ground requires two different positions so much so that if you set your eye relief on your scope for bench shooting you will find that you have to pull your head back from the scope when lying. Thats why i always do my scope mounting from the prone position and simply adjust if shooting from the bench, as 99% of my shooting is done in the prone position.

The other thing is the 300 yd shooting bays. Its concrete and you'll find lying on it for any period of time a little more uncomfortable than on a grass firing point as the soil and grass acts like a bedding.

If you are around this weekend, either day, give me a shout as i want to do a little work on my positions as i haven't shot since the Creedmoor. We'll head out to the 800 and you'll see and feel the difference.

One last thing. By all means listen to lads helping you out, but if a position is so uncomfortable that the aches, pains, and discomfort is foremost on your mind it will effect your shooting whether the position is right or wrong. Try and find a happy medium between what works and (most importantly) what you can hold and repeat each time.

fish slapped

Lay prone??
I try to avoid it ... see saw... see saw...:o

IRLConor

Are you shooting with a bipod or off a sling? If you're shooting with a bipod I wouldn't worry about your position too much so long as you

1. are comfortable (most important of all!)
2. keep your head relatively level - your brain can do funny things if it thinks you're falling over.
3. don't change your position from shot to shot

A lot of the more esoteric positions hinted at by Sparks are really only relevant when you're shooting with a sling and you need to balance your body against the weight of the rifle. If you are shooting with a sling, get help from someone who knows what they're talking about. You could easily hurt your back without realising it. (I've done this several times! )

Cass

IRLConor wrote: »

Are you shooting with a bipod or off a sling?

It'd be off a bipod IRLConor. He is "one of us" now.

Don't mind that dirty talk of slings Tommyboy. I'd really suggest you get out to the Creedmoor range. The firing points are far different and as i always say to new FTR lads DO NOT mind the distance. Once you are on paper you will be amazed how easy it comes to you. Too many times i've seen lads, and i've done it myself when starting out, and they are dropping their heads trying to relax their necks between every 4 - 5 shots. You may experience a slight ache until you get used to shooting from the prone position, but that will disappear within a session or two. If it persists then you are doing something wrong (for you).

tommyboy26

Ezridax wrote: »

I never lie straight behind the rifle. Its just not comfortable. I lie at 8 o clock to the rifle. I've had loads of people tell me its wrong, but it works for me. I alternate between my legs out stretched and spread apart with the insoles flat against the ground to one leg straight out and the other bent but again with the insoles facing the ground.

Shooting from a bench and shooting from the ground requires two different positions so much so that if you set your eye relief on your scope for bench shooting you will find that you have to pull your head back from the scope when lying. Thats why i always do my scope mounting from the prone position and simply adjust if shooting from the bench, as 99% of my shooting is done in the prone position.

The other thing is the 300 yd shooting bays. Its concrete and you'll find lying on it for any period of time a little more uncomfortable than on a grass firing point as the soil and grass acts like a bedding.

If you are around this weekend, either day, give me a shout as i want to do a little work on my positions as i haven't shot since the Creedmoor. We'll head out to the 800 and you'll see and feel the difference.

One last thing. By all means listen to lads helping you out, but if a position is so uncomfortable that the aches, pains, and discomfort is foremost on your mind it will effect your shooting whether the position is right or wrong. Try and find a happy medium between what works and (most importantly) what you can hold and repeat each time.

I noticed i had to move my head further back when lyin prone. Not sure what way im working this weekend but will give you a shout if im coming down as im egar to try shooting out on the creedmoor range.

tommyboy26

IRLConor wrote: »

Are you shooting with a bipod or off a sling? If you're shooting with a bipod I wouldn't worry about your position too much so long as you

1. are comfortable (most important of all!)
2. keep your head relatively level - your brain can do funny things if it thinks you're falling over.
3. don't change your position from shot to shot

A lot of the more esoteric positions hinted at by Sparks are really only relevant when you're shooting with a sling and you need to balance your body against the weight of the rifle. If you are shooting with a sling, get help from someone who knows what they're talking about. You could easily hurt your back without realising it. (I've done this several times! )

I use a sinclair f class bipod shooting with a sling would be to fancy(difficult) for me

Cass

tommyboy26 wrote: »

I noticed i had to move my head further back when lyin prone..

That goes back to what i was saying about mounting a scope. Just about everyone uses a bench/table when mounting a scope and then uses the table to zero off. Problem is when you are in the seated position your body is upright and you have the scope more towards the rear of the stock to prevent you leaning too much into the rifle.

However when lying down your natural body position means your head is further forward than if you were in the seated position so the scope is always closer to your eye meaning you have to pull your head back. This leads to the stock/butt of the rifle being "too far" from your shoulder, which in turn leads to a lesser grip or a compromised grip on the stock to adjust for the "closeness" of the scope.

The best solution before doing anything further is to loosen the scope, mounts and all, then shift it forward at least one (possbily two) notches in the picatinny rail. Then re-zero. You'll know its right when you have to lean slightly into the rifle to get clear picture sight in the scope. Don't forget that you have eye relief on your scope so if its not too bad and the neck pulling can be eliminated by adjusting the eye relief on the scope then moving the scope and mounts might not be necessary.

Once you get the scope done always check it by lying down with it. If it doesn't feel right or you think "well that'll do" then its not right and shouldn't be left that way. The last thing you need when lying down to shoot is to have the thoughts of sore neck, uncomfortable, etc running through your head. It will affect your shooting.


The offer of a days shoot is a standing one so anytime you can make it give us a shout. Most of the lads are there each weekend so there will be plenty of lads to bounce ideas off other than myself.

tommyboy26

I also found it more difficult to use my butt bag but im sure this can be sorted with a bit of coaching

IRLConor

tommyboy26 wrote: »

I use a sinclair f class bipod shooting with a sling would be to fancy(difficult) for me

It's a hell of a lot easier than it looks. If you ever want to give it a try come grab me on the range.

It wasn't me!

I shoot prone both with a sling and a bipod and I offset my body about the same each way, probably to a bit past seven o'clock , maybe half seven. The idea is that my neck is now in a straight line with my spine and my head resting on the stock in the right place to put my eye behind the scope or rearsight. Bend the knee and raise it until you can breathe freely and lie in position for some time without discomfort. This also puts body mass behind the rifle which helps control recoil. The guiding principles though should include a straight spine, a neck that's quite relaxed and lying comfortably on the rifle and a straight left leg in line with your side. Make sure the scope is far enough forward that you don't have to crane your neck back to get a good sight picture. I'm going to put a thicker recoil pad on my rifle just to get it a bit further forward to relax my neck better. Conor nailed it though: Comfort is vital. Everything I'm saying works because it's comfortable, and that's the most important thing of all, because you can't focus on shooting well if your mind is distracted because you're not comfortable.

tommyboy26

IRLConor wrote: »

tommyboy26 wrote: »

I use a sinclair f class bipod shooting with a sling would be to fancy(difficult) for me

It's a hell of a lot easier than it looks. If you ever want to give it a try come grab me on the range.

Just out of curiousity what distance and calibre do you use when you shoot with a sling

It wasn't me!

Conor and I shoot mostly .22LR at 50m under ISSF rules, but I believe he's been thinking about a possible move to fullbore TR, which would be a .308 win out to 1000 yards. Would love to do it myself if I had the cash to have a rifle built.

patsat

Sorry for hijacking this thread but it seems to have run its course and didnt want to start a new thread with the same name!

I have a problem with my prone position shooting also. I have read alot of threads and watched numerous videos yet still cant overcome the problem

When I shoot in this position, I find it very hard to stay on target once i pull the trigger as there is quiet a bit of muzzle jump... To overcome this I have placing my second hand on the forearm of the stock to try and secure the rifle in place but this means I cant hold the rifle as steady as when I would have my hand underneath the butt of the stock..

One thing I think may be the cause is that despite the rifle being fairly heavy, most of the weight is in the back (scope and stock) so the light barrel may jump more easily??

Please help!

Cass

Firstly Harris bipods while a great bipod are not ideal for target shooting. They are designed for hunting really or more to the point a shot or two then move. Getting good follow through with one is not as easy as with other more dedicated F-Class bipods. Not to say it cannot be done but not as easily as with a deicated F-Class bipod.

While getting your body position right is essential too many lads try and "prevent" the recoil by pushing against the rifle and trying to stop the kick. This, IMO, is a mistake. Recoil will happen no matter what you do. If you try and stop it coming back then the recoil will affect the rifle in other ways such as muzzle flip or "jumping" to the side leaving you off target.

You need to position yourself in such a way that the recoil is absorbed by your body rather than trying to prevent it. The rifle, in ideal conditions, should fire, come back, your body/shoulder push it forward again, and the rifle by still on target. Exactly on the same point is not necessary (or maybe not even possible) but you shouldn't have to go "searching" for the target.

As said at the start the Harris can cause some of these problems. The design means the feet Dig into the ground rathr than sit on it. So when the rifle is fired and it begins to recoil the feet/legs bend or dig in and the rifle almost springs or bobs rather than slides.

I'm finding hard to describe exactly what i want to say but i hope i'm making this somewhat clear.

Another point is the body position as mentioned in another post. You really want the shoulder - butt pad contact to be good and the position of the shoulder should be straight behind the bore. In other words if you ran a line down through the barrel, out the action and towards the back of the rifle you idealy want your shoulder to butt pad contact on this line. This means the recoil is coming straight back onto your shoulder and its at "90 degrees" to the centre line of the rifle. The recoil will simply shove the shoulder backward. If your shoulder position is lower than the centre line it can result in muzzle flip.

I've kinda rabbled on there but hopefully some of it is understandable. Again these ideas work for me, and may not be the "done thing" or the proper thing, but it works.

patsat

Thanks Erzi I must take note of that last piece about position of the shoulder on the butt.. I never paid attention to this so maybe that is the core of the problem..

Cass

Adjustable butt pad. Cheap enough and a quick fix solution.