Stallions

tryfix

I says wrote: »

Excelebration Ivawood and War Command any idea where they’re gone?

It's like they just fell off the face of the planet. They're no longer listed on any coolmore site, their Coolmore stallion pages come as unfound so they are likely to be finished at Coolmore. Maybe the deals for them haven't been completed yet. A Google search brings up no announcements about where they are headed.

Of the three I thought that War Command was a good young sire, the other two not so good.

I says

tryfix wrote: »

It's like they just fell off the face of the planet. They're no longer listed on any coolmore site, their Coolmore stallion pages come as unfound so they are likely to be finished at Coolmore. Maybe the deals for them haven't been completed yet. A Google search brings up no announcements about where they are headed.

Of the three I thought that War Command was a good young sire, the other two not so good.

Yeah went looking last night and nothing online

tryfix

I says wrote: »

Yeah went looking last night and nothing online

They'll turn up after a while. Coolmore has now become so dominant and successful at producing stallions that it's no longer just a stallion farm. It has become a farm for selling stallions.

They could be off to the UK, France, South Africa, Chile, Argentina or even India which is where Roderic O Connor ended up. I can't think of any War Front Stallion standing in the UK, certainly not one of the stature of War Command.

Irish Derby and Leger winner Capri joins the NH sires in Grange Stud

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-latest/coolmore-add-dual-classic-hero-capri-to-national-hunt-roster-at-grange-stud/408109

https://coolmore.com/farms/nationalhunt/stallions/capri

tryfix

TheTorment wrote: »

Irish Derby and Leger winner Capri joins the NH sires in Grange Stud

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-latest/coolmore-add-dual-classic-hero-capri-to-national-hunt-roster-at-grange-stud/408109

https://coolmore.com/farms/nationalhunt/stallions/capri

Wonder what the fee will be? If he'd retired at 3 or even 4 they'd have a solid horse to send to stud, but his 5yo career was enough to get most horses gelded.

Will there be a queue to use him if he's 6k? There shouldn't be!

Robson99

tryfix wrote: »

Wonder what the fee will be? If he'd retired at 3 or even 4 they'd have a solid horse to send to stud, but his 5yo career was enough to get most horses gelded.

Will there be a queue to use him if he's 6k? There shouldn't be!

Agreed
Crystal Ocean possibly the best of the new stallions in Coolmore NH
Blue Bresil to Rathbarry an excellent addition to their NH roster
Mount Nelson a big loss to Boardsmill

The Tetrarch

New stallions Capri, Phoenix Of Spain, Success Days are all grey.

tryfix

Galileo matches Danehill's all-time record of 84 Group/Grade 1 winners as Magic Wand's Mackinnon Stakes win drew the son of Sadler's Wells level

https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/bloodstock-latest/magic-wand-from-eur14-million-yearling-to-galileos-84th-group-grade-1-winner/408275

Really glad to see that smashing filly Magic Wand gain a long overdue G1 success and just 4 days after running in the Melbourne Cup.

I guess there's a reason why so many of her dam Prudenzia's offspring have made multimillion sales figures. Magic Wand joins her €6m worth half sister Chicquita as a G1 winner.

The Tetrarch

Kingman fee goes from GBP 75,000 to GBP 150,000.
The logic must be that is you charge enough people think he must be worth it.
If a cover was free owners would not use a stallion.
About 3% to 4% of runners break even.
Kingman had 235 recorded coverings in 2019, so presumably 235 winners of the 2000 guineas and Derby in 2023.

tryfix

Waldgeist to Ballylinch @€;17,500

It's a pity that they didn't keep him in France or Germany where he could have been a star stallion. Big race winning Galileo Stallions are 10 a penny in these parts.

He's very well bred, a G1 winner at 2, 4 and 5 and not short of speed. Is it a good thing or a bad thing that he's a smallish fella?

The Tetrarch

Waldgeist standing in Ireland is the most exciting stallion news I've heard for ages, and the price is very attractive.
People often look for size in stallions. My preference is for a small stallion as I think they won races by their quality.
Saying a small stallion will produce a small foal/horse assumes what the foal inherits that feature. If you check the size of the grandparents you might learn more.
You want quality in a foal, not size.
Examples of smallish stallions are Northern Dancer, Nureyev, Blushing Groom, Hyperion, Mill Reef.

The Tetrarch

Useless information about Waldgeist.
His dam line is Walderleche, Waldmark, Wurftaube, Wurfbahn, Wolkenpracht, Wolke, Westfalen, Windstille, Waldrun, Walburga, Wally, Wie So?, White Clover, Wave, Weather-Beaten, Weatherbit mare.
Does anyone know why German horses and their ancestors all have the same initial?

Johner

Johner wrote: »

We just had a lovely Getaway colt who's a half brother to Benny's Bridge.

Got a deal on Idaho as well for another cover, impressive looking horse.

Sold that Getaway colt today as a foal for €75k. Lot 482 at the November Sale at Tatts. Delighted.

BumperD

Johner wrote: »

Sold that Getaway colt today as a foal for €75k. Lot 482 at the November Sale at Tatts. Delighted.

Saw Altiors half brother foal went for 170k approx not bad

I says

tryfix wrote: »

They'll turn up after a while. Coolmore has now become so dominant and successful at producing stallions that it's no longer just a stallion farm. It has become a farm for selling stallions.

They could be off to the UK, France, South Africa, Chile, Argentina or even India which is where Roderic O Connor ended up. I can't think of any War Front Stallion standing in the UK, certainly not one of the stature of War Command.

Ivawood in France according to new coolmore brochure

Robson99

Crystal Ocean launched at €8k
High price for a first season NH stallion

tatoo

Alternatively you could say it's a low price for a horse retiring as the ( joint) highest rated middle distance performer in Europe.

The Tetrarch

New Zealand sire Tavistock put down age 14. He injured his near four in a paddock accident eight weeks ago.
He stood at the famous Cambridge Stud, Cambridge, north island, formerly owned by Sir Patrick Hogan.

tatoo

I see first season NH sire Jet Away has got off to a great start, first two runners after winning their 4yo maidens at Oldtown and Cragmore this afternoon.
Anyone know what they're looking for him this year, what kind of mare suits him etc?

Johner

I think around €2,500 - €3,000 for Jet Away this year. We had a couple of fillies by him at the sales and they are nice but we couldn’t sell them. We still have them at home, good start for him anyway.

Robson99

Shirocco another that's flying it since Xmas

I says

Is highland reel having trouble in the fertility department or is it all bs I read online yesterday.

tatoo

Robson99 wrote: »

Shirocco another that's flying it since Xmas

Absolutely, half a dozen or more nice young horses , with a couple of them , Henriettas, Crawfords and Tizzards being spoken of very highly indeed.
Not bad for a sire they had gone luke warm on for the last year or so, things are gone so fickle now its really hard to know where to turn.
Ockovango off to a great start as well as Jet Away , and Libertarians first runner a winner, no doubt loads of breeders will be heading to them, how many of them will still be flavour of the month in twelve months no to mention four year's time.
I suspect Shirocco may be to sustain it as he covered very good books, quality and quantity, on the back of Annie Power successes.

Robson99

tatoo wrote: »

Absolutely, half a dozen or more nice young horses , with a couple of them , Henriettas, Crawfords and Tizzards being spoken of very highly indeed.
Not bad for a sire they had gone luke warm on for the last year or so, things are gone so fickle now its really hard to know where to turn.
Ockovango off to a great start as well as Jet Away , and Libertarians first runner a winner, no doubt loads of breeders will be heading to them, how many of them will still be flavour of the month in twelve months no to mention four year's time.
I suspect Shirocco may be to sustain it as he covered very good books, quality and quantity, on the back of Annie Power successes.

The Monsun factor beginning to take off.
And Maxios added to Coolmore roster for 2020 and Vadamos standing in Tallyho stud, there is plenty to choose from.( both very good looking stallions )

tatoo

Robson99 wrote: »

The Monsun factor beginning to take off.
And Maxios added to Coolmore roster for 2020 and Vadamos standing in Tallyho stud, there is plenty to choose from.( both very good looking stallions )

Monsun seems to cross well with ND line mares, and while Getaway is doing well at the moment and Shirocco is taking off, it's maybe wise not to get too carried away when you factor in some of his other less successful sons that got big crops.

Robson99

tatoo wrote: »

Monsun seems to cross well with ND line mares, and while Getaway is doing well at the moment and Shirocco is taking off, it's maybe wise not to get too carried away when you factor in some of his other less successful sons that got big crops.

Did many of them get big crops though ???

tatoo

Just looking at a weatherbys book here, Arcadio got some mammoth books, a few others busy enough
Arcadio 266 mares in 2013, 262 in 2014
Aizavoski 64 & 81
September Storm 80 & 45
Shirocco 94 & 274
Getaway 230 & 295

734 in 2013 and Almost a thousand mares covered between them in 2014

Sans Frontiers left Coolmore for the UK

tatoo

I know theres bigger things to worry about,

But, will stallion masters review the fees they're looking for in light of all the market uncertainty and oncoming recession?

I also think mare owners should be very careful and selective in what they cover this year.

Robson99

tatoo wrote: »

I know theres bigger things to worry about,

But, will stallion masters review the fees they're looking for in light of all the market uncertainty and oncoming recession?

I also think mare owners should be very careful and selective in what they cover this year.

Agree
There is a big recession coming on the back of this so lads would want to cover with caution
Can't see the stallion boys dropping much tbh.

Ive had 2 mares covered in recent weeks and bringing another tomorrow. Theres been no great reduction bar the usual concessions.

Brought a mare to Pillar Coral. We were instructed not to leave the car at all upon arrival. They took mare from horsebox and brought her to be covered. They loaded her back in when covered. I went to hand passport out the open window but was told to close window and hold it against the glass. They photographed it then. It was quite eerie!!

From briefly speaking with him they are very concerned about the whole business and sales. And deservedly so I believe.

The Tetrarch

What about travelling a mare to France? Is that possible?

Robson99

TheTorment wrote: »

Ive had 2 mares covered in recent weeks and bringing another tomorrow. Theres been no great reduction bar the usual concessions.

Brought a mare to Pillar Coral. We were instructed not to leave the car at all upon arrival. They took mare from horsebox and brought her to be covered. They loaded her back in when covered. I went to hand passport out the open window but was told to close window and hold it against the glass. They photographed it then. It was quite eerie!!

From briefly speaking with him they are very concerned about the whole business and sales. And deservedly so I believe.

TT What other stallions did you use / are intending to use ?
Was thinking of using Pillar Coral as well on a mare...very well bred horse and a fine physical specimen from what I have heard

tatoo

I see some lad has an ad on donedeal advertising ten thoroughbreds for sale for 3k, I think we'd want to be very cautious about covering mares this year.

tatoo

tatoo wrote: »

I see some lad has an ad on donedeal advertising ten thoroughbreds for sale for 3k, I think we'd want to be very cautious about covering mares this year.

Too late for me I've my three covered already.

Had a look for ad but couldn't find it. Have you a link please?

tatoo

TheTorment wrote: »

Too late for me I've my three covered already.

Had a look for ad but couldn't find it. Have you a link please?

I gave a look for it there now, it seems to be gone.
Someone drew my attention to it yesterday, ten horses, pictured in groups standing in a big field in Kildare, a couple of broodmare, a 3yo and 2yo fillies, the rest 2019 born, no breeding mentioned.

Robson99

TheTorment wrote: »

Too late for me I've my three covered already.

Had a look for ad but couldn't find it. Have you a link please?

You might be lucky..if a lockdown comes a lot of lads might not be able to get them covered..

tatoo

Any budge on stallion fees, or are they expecting breeders to stump up the same money for stallions as before this Covid sh!tstorm hit us?

Robson99

tatoo wrote: »

Any budge on stallion fees, or are they expecting breeders to stump up the same money for stallions as before this Covid sh!tstorm hit us?

Not that I heard...they were fairly stout about them the last I heard

Id agreed mine back in early February before Covid appeared on the scene here.

tatoo

I think the studs would be entirely unreasonable to expect pre-pandemic rates for their product, when breeders will be getting post-pandemic prices for whatever clearance rate that will be there when the dust settles, whenever that will be.
And we all probably have stock bred at prices that might have given us a chance of profit in an ideal world, but now we are going to be in the teeth of a major recession and at the mercy of a much meaner and tighter market.

The Tetrarch

I think the stallion studs might change their minds when we get to May and they have done small business.

Robson99

Can we still travel with a mare to stud with this lockdown ?

tatoo

Robson99 wrote: »

Can we still travel with a mare to stud with this lockdown ?

I would think so, it's already under strict social restrictions, ie you must not leave your vehicle, stud staff will unload and then load your mare after covering, necessary paperwork to be sent online or held up to inside of vehicles window for photoing

tatoo

https://twitter.com/ITBA_Official/status/1243688705568706560?s=19

tatoo

I'm hearing that several of the more expensive Irish NH stallions are very busy, are irish breeders amongst the most optimistic people on the planet or the most foolish?

The Mig

Shamardal brown bread

The Tetrarch

The Mig wrote: »

Shamardal brown bread

No cause of death given on the Racing Post.
He was one of the big stallions, in the top half dozen.

tryfix

Camelot has a G1 winner in Australia when the Northern Hemisphere bred 3yo Russian Camelot gives the 6 month older Southern Hemisphere bred 3yos a stylish beating in the 12f South Australian Derby.

He's joint favourite for the Melbourne Cup after that run. He has plenty going against him in the Melbourne Cup so he's probably a mugs bet.

He's stylish, ran 3-4-5-6 wide most of the way around and won comfortably in the end. The ground was Good to Soft, as a Camelot it's hard to see him improving from such a stylish win, on the other hand age and weight wise he will be catching up with the Southern Hemisphere breds.

The Tetrarch

Influential international sire Forty Niner dies aged 35

That is a great age.
In my data he has 250 progeny, 3,996 grandchildren, 1,723 great grandchildren.
If his line continues it will be through his sons Coronado's Quest; Distorted Humor; End Sweep; Luhuk; Roar; Twining.

There are a few horses where Forty Niner is now in their first generation e.g.
Artenetra (f) (2018) out of Always Annie (f) (2010) by Mount Nelson (m) (2004) out of Independence (f) (1998) out of Yukon Hope (f) (1993) by Forty Niner (m) (1985).