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Is the City Council incompetent?
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24-08-2011 10:15am#1Just look at the litany of ridiculous disaster in the city over the past five years or so (feel free to add to them) and tell me our City Council is not incompetent.
If they were in the private sector, the people at the top of our Council would be worrying about their jobs.
* Eyre Square revamp (huge cost, for what? Is it any better?)
* Cryptosporidium crisis (households left without water for up to three months, because of poor planning, septic tanks, etc)
* Mervue water crisis
* Winter water freezing (houses without water for a fortnight, over two winters at this stage)
* Galway City Marathon (cancelled due to incompetence / lack of cooperation with organisers)
* General traffic chaos throughout the year (no sign of a plan, no boost to pedestrians, cyclists, or public transport to encourage people to leave their cars at home)
* Moneenageisha junction changeover (made a bad situation far worse)
* Seamus Quirke Road revamp (taking longer than planned, huge disruption, will it make it any better?)
* Art House Cinema (free site from the Council, to close off a lane for a year at least at this stage)
* Current roadworks debacle (three taking place in the same area at the same time, making it impossible for people to cross the city)
... and that's just off the top of my head!1
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I would agree with all of your points but I would give them some allowance for the winter freezing water shortage because it was mainly caused by unprecedented cold spells. In this case however, their communication was poor and reactive rather than proactive.
I think their communication with the public is terrible.
I've emailed / written to them 4 times in almost 3 years and not one person from the city Council has ever responded. 2 of these issues involved immediate public health & safety problems. What is the point in having someone in a public facing job, if they refuse to communicate with the public.
I remember reading in one of the papers (don't have a link), that bonuses were given to some of the managers in the Council for the way they dealt with the cryptosporidium crisis. I work in the private sector and I know if I was in charge when something like this occured, I would either get fired or demoted.
Over the past couple of years we have had the debacle between Padraig Coneelly and the City Council, where one won't talk to the other, etc. The only losers in this are the public. As long as the council managers get their bonuses, and the councillors can pass around the position of mayor in a cosy cartel, nothing will change. This attitude of entitlement has filtered down to a situation where bin-men expect tips at Christmas, and city council engineers expect hampers from contractors.0 -
I was about to write a similar post but excluding the frozen pipes, something that happens in all Europe.
About the Monneenageisha junction I believe it actually works better given the amount of traffic involved. The only problem with this junction is that it took more time and more money than planned, something that seems to be endemic of this administration.0 -
My own personal opinion is that all people applying for posts in the public / civil service should only be considered if they have worked in the private sector for at least 2 years preferably in a client facing role (thats corporate speak for dealing with customers).
The idea of someone going in a 18 until retirement is ludicrous. They become institutionalised and know that as long as they don't do anything bordering on crazy (well actually I know one or two who have done some mad things and still kept their jobs) then their job is safe.
Customer Service training must also be made mandatory.
Is there a section on Galway Corpos website inviting feedback on the service received?0 -
frozen pipes don't happen all over Europe because in most countries, pipes are buried deep enough and houses are built to at least a minimum standard to avoid these issues (I grew up in Northern Europe, winter could be up to minus 20, and I've NEVER experienced frozen pipes in my life. Ever.)
ANyhoo - the council. I would love to know what makes them fail at every project they put their hands on! Is it just buerocracy? Can't-be-arsedness? Lack of foresight, insight, and even hindsight? Seriously, if I ran my projects at work the way most of the council projects are run, I'd be out of a job in double-quick time.
Eyre Square revamp was a joke - 10 million, and nothing's changed. Westside revamp? Not going to change much, I don't think. Changing roundabouts to junctions - may work, but will inconvenience people A LOT. Any other road works project? Complete disaster, due to unbelivable crap timing, everytime. They've had ALL summer to complete these roadworks while the kids are off - why start NOW when kids are back to school, adding to the frustration?
P*ssed off beyond words, really.0 -
frozen pipes don't happen all over Europe because in most countries, pipes are buried deep enough and houses are built to at least a minimum standard to avoid these issues (I grew up in Northern Europe, winter could be up to minus 20, and I've NEVER experienced frozen pipes in my life. Ever.)
Ok, you are right on that.0 -
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The way the council and mayor is elected means that the council workers have no particular reason to be answerable to the people we elect - there will be a different mayor along in a few months.
If I had my way I would do away with the job for life and replace it with three to five year contracts that would have to be publicly advertised and reapplied for.
I would also get rid of defined benefit pensions meaning there was no particular reason to stay in one sector and allow greater movement between the public and private sectors.0 -
Yes.0
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Are you incompetent that you had to ask that silly question??
I thought it was a given that all local autorities are completely inept. The basic theory being that if you are any good at what you do you go into the private sector or set up a business, and if you are thick as a plank its either the guards or the local councils.0 -
Nobody is going to say No OP.
There is zero accountability for anything that happens in City Hall.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »If I had my way I would do away with the job for life and replace it with three to five year contracts that would have to be publicly advertised and reapplied for.
I would also get rid of defined benefit pensions meaning there was no particular reason to stay in one sector and allow greater movement between the public and private sectors.
Agreed. Another problem in Galway is that many of the Senior officials/engineering staff do not actually live in the city. I would make it a requirement that anyone working for the city council must live in the city.
(That said I am also of the view that it might be best to scrap the city council and merge it with the county - why be consistent)0 -
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About the Monneenageisha junction I believe it actually works better given the amount of traffic involved.
It's interesting how the only people that the only people I hear voicing that opinion are on here. Literally hundreds of people I've talked to about it think it's a joke and has made the situation much worse.0 -
galwaycyclist wrote: »Agreed. Another problem in Galway is that many of the Senior officials/engineering staff do not actually live in the city. I would make it a requirement that anyone working for the city council must live in the city.
How do you know where they live? :eek:0 -
antoobrien wrote: »It's interesting how the only people that the only people I hear voicing that opinion are on here. Literally hundreds of people I've talked to about it think it's a joke and has made the situation much worse.
I may be wrong, but that is how I feel about it.0 -
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Surprised at the experiences that people here have had with the City Council.
A few years ago, a friend of mine borrowed my bag and forgot it somewhere. Got a phone call a week later from City Hall, they'd found it in their building and found a locker stub from NUIG on it. They rang NUIG asking who's locker it was and rang me once they'd gotten my name from NUIG, saying they had my bag there for me.
Was very impressed by this.0 -
So, NUIG gave your details to a third party agency without your authorisation and you're happy?0
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what_traffic wrote: »You are NOT wrong if you are writing on behalf of pedestrians and cyclists. Change to lights has made a difference for these road users.
Sorry but as a cyclist I spent 6 years traveling the N6 corridor through all those roundabouts going to NUIG and had 1 problem - after they added a 3rd lane to the inbound road at JJ Flemmings [edit - this was outbound on the tuam road tuirning onto the BNT/Ballybane road] - at which point I switched my route to go to the Monivea road instead.
The addition of traffic lights in woodquay (about 2000/2001) made me use the cycle lanes extra wide footpaths on the quincentenary bridge instead of going through woodquay.
As a motorist it really p*sses me off when I see pedestrians ignoring lights that have been put in place specifically for their benefit.0 -
Glad that you acknowledged this. There was 3 lanes inbound on the roundabout (still are with the traffic controlled junction) on the Dublin Road at Moneen? So esentially you agree that it was difficult to cross; as a pedestrian or where you cycling?antoobrien wrote: »had 1 problem - after they added a 3rd lane to the inbound road at JJ Flemmings.
Traffic speeds have been reduced in the area have reduced since the lights have been installed.
As a pedestrian it really p*sses me off when I see motorists ignoring red lights and running through green pedestrian phases.
Everybody is breaking the rules out there. All road users should show consideration to each other.0 -
what_traffic wrote: »There was 3 lanes inbound on the roundabout (still are with the traffic controlled junction) on the Dublin Road at Moneen?
I didn't come that way I was almost always coming from Wellpark/Cemetary Cross/College Rd, regardless I never had a problem on the Moneen with a bike or on foot. The biggest problem with the moneen was the cars stopping on the roundabout blocking entrances, e.g. you couldn't go onto college road from wellpark because of the traffic attempting to go out the Dublin road (being stopped by a series of traffic lights).
They were never high in the first placewhat_traffic wrote: »Traffic speeds have been reduced in the area have reduced since the lights have been installed.0 -
Regardless if you did not cross there do you not agree then that crossing there is comparable with your crossing the inbound road at JJ Flemmings??antoobrien wrote: »I didn't come that way I was almost always coming from Wellpark/Cemetary Cross/College Rd, regardless I never had a problem on the Moneen with a bike or on foot.
Never said they where high, only that they have reduced from the pre-existing speeds prior to the conversion.antoobrien wrote: »They were never high in the first place0 -
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antoobrien wrote: »It's interesting how the only people that the only people I hear voicing that opinion are on here. Literally hundreds of people I've talked to about it think it's a joke and has made the situation much worse.
It must be a conspiracy we're all actually city engineers.
I mainly used the monivea road and found it big improvement after the alterations.
You can also cross it on foot now which was never easy before with the traffic flying down the hill.
As for the current road works, well they need to be done at some point and if they were done earlier there would be moaning about doing it during the races and arts festival.
Overlapping the university road and bridge works is a bit incompetent of course.0 -
Master and commander wrote: »Are you incompetent that you had to ask that silly question??
I thought it was a given that all local autorities are completely inept. The basic theory being that if you are any good at what you do you go into the private sector or set up a business, and if you are thick as a plank its either the guards or the local councils.
Master and Commander,
I guess my point in asking the 'silly question' was to see if other posters feel as I do. Many seem to agree that there is zero accountability for any decisions made at City Hall.
If they block up the roads, so what.
If we can't drink our water or have a shower, so what.
If they give away a free site to incompetent developers, so what.
If people take 90 minutes to get across town, so what.
If they spend a fortune on making something worse (Eyre Square or Moneenageisha), so what.
Their communcations about road works and closures, water shortages, whatever, seem to be pathetic.
I know Cllr Padraic Conneely has had loads of spats with the officials over the years, but he just comes across as an ego-driven loud mouth who loves the sound of his own voice.
Otherwise, these officials seem to be able to carry on making a mess of things in our city without any sign of reprimand or censure. (In fact, it's the opposite, if they can award themselves bonuses after a debacle like the crypto crisis .. which ensures a lot of us don't trust the tap water even to this day).
By the way, I'd say most of us in the private sector would love the security of a public sector job now (no accountability, no pressure, nice pensions).0 -
what_traffic wrote: »Regardless if you did not cross there do you not agree then that crossing there is comparable with your crossing the inbound road at JJ Flemmings??
No I don't, the junction at the huntsman has a wider field of vision than Flemmings.
Regarding speeds saying
implies they were high. I don't see how they could get any lower as it was.Traffic speeds have been reduced
I used to use the Monivea road,but since they changed to lights I avoid it like the plague. Any time I do venture down there I'm at least 15 minutes getting between wellpark grove and the lights.I mainly used the monivea road and found it big improvement after the alterations.0 -
Just to add to it. I do believe they also took out a 15 million overdraft and..they then paid out the arse to rent big potted plants for the Volvo Ocean race..they were nice but not worth the money they forked out on them. You can nearly bet they are eating away at that overdraft and we'll be feeling that pinch some time down the line. Especially when they were on the brink of going bust.
The fact they piss and moan about different things without offering any suggestions on how to improve them..if that's what they get paid for, we don't need them. Looking at you Padraig!0 -
Firstly, let's clarify are you're talking about city council officials, or about the fine councillors who we all elected?If they were in the private sector, the people at the top of our Council would be worrying about their jobs.
I wonder how they compare to people working in fine private sector organisations like Anglo-Irish, AIB ... and even the Catholic church!
To look at your rant in more detail:
Firstly, the lads who clean up the rubbish, piss and vomit that is deposited on the inner city streets every night are not incompetent - they are FANTASTIC!
The folks who take my rubbish away (and dead horses from certain suburbs!), sponsor the arts festival, keep the streets moderately free of stand alone advertising signs, worked with the Doughiska community to build the park/playground out there, enforce parking regulations so that central city parks get shared around .. aren't bad either.
* Mervue water crisis
Somehow I don't think that the council officials who approved building council houses with lead pipes in 1970s (most probably to save ratepayers money) are still there today.
* Winter water freezing (houses without water for a fortnight, over two winters at this stage)
Builders not burying pipes deep enough to deal with exceptional weather is a council problem?
* Galway City Marathon (cancelled due to incompetence / lack of cooperation with organisers)
I've suspended judgement about this one: not convinced we're heard the full story on either side.
* General traffic chaos throughout the year (no sign of a plan, no boost to pedestrians, cyclists, or public transport to encourage people to leave their cars at home)
There IS a plan to improve public transport infrastructure, and we've seen evidence of it in the time I've been here, including the private bus station, Dublin Rd bus lanes, some council-owned bus shelters (they had to fight with BE to stop shelters that only BE services could use), the Forster St bus lane, and extended Christmas park-and-ride. Other aspects are being worked on eg the Seamus Quirke bus lane (which is upsetting to many people in another thread!). There are some aspects of the plan that are just daft, eg no taxi-stand outside the coach station, the Merlin Woods bus lane and the cathedral terminus before there's a better bridge at the Salmon Weir, but overall they're going in the right direction.
It's worth noting that the councils aren't actually responsible for public transport in Ireland - so if a bus company or the guards want to do something silly (eg two bus stops in Bothár what's it Brendan down from Prospect hill) they council can't actually stop it.
* Moneenageisha junction changeover (made a bad situation far worse)
For a pedestrian, or someone who comes down Wellpark after work in the evening, it's vastly better.
* Seamus Quirke Road revamp (taking longer than planned, huge disruption, will it make it any better?)
See bus lane comment above - you can't have them do nothing and not-nothing at the same tiem.
* Art House Cinema (free site from the Council, to close off a lane for a year at least at this stage)
What should they have done? Refused to be involved with the (private sector managed, btw) project in case something went wrong? Opened the road and let motorists fall thru the giant hole that would appear?
There are problems I have with the council: wasn't overly amused to get a letter threatening to take me off the electoral roll unless I contacted them within ten days ... but it took seven days for the letter to get to me. Opening hours for buying rubbish bags are ridiculously short. Lack of a public transport website (ffs, how come it had to be done by a private individual) .. and I could think of some more.
But overall incompetent is too strong a word, IMHO.0 -
as ive said in the other thread about the terrible roadworks planning atm, i've only been living in galway about 5/6 months now and your city council here seem awful. my 10 minute stress free drive home from work has become a 40 minute journey. if it was due to an accident or something i'd be ok with it, but its due to a lack of common sense which pisses me off.
Also ive recently noticed that on the road by the dunnes stores going towards the terryland roundabout towards tesco, at least twice a week and everyday this week(with the worse traffic) an ambulance and sometimes a garda can will blare its siren and drive through the traffic. surely there's not an emergency at the same time every evening? are they allowed just throw their siren on to skip past traffic without an emergency? anyone else notice this?0 -
Remembered another one. Didn't the council shut off the water without informing the people first..0
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Interesting how many responses to the OP focus on traffic issues.
Galway City Council is seriously dysfunctional, IMO. That doesn't mean everything they do is always wrong, just that getting there is often painful.
Councillors must take some of the blame, but since they're elected then we all get the local politicians that the voters deserve.
Many of the officials are as arrogant as they are incompetent, IMO. There's a seriously lack of accountability, and many of the senior officials believe they are answerable to nobody. Just look at the many spats between Councillors and officials: when the officials don't like what they're hearing they just walk out or ignore what's being said. I wonder how many decisions made by the elected members have just been quietly dropped?
The ultimate problem is our appallingly inefficient, corrupt, centralised and clientelist political system. If we had proper local powers (including revenue raising) and proper local accountability things might be somewhat different.
Just thought of another item to add to the OP's blacklist: failure (or disinclination) to collect development levies during the Celtic Casino years.
http://www.galwaynews.ie/13350-builders-owe-city-council-over-%E2%82%AC5m-unpaid-levies
http://www.galwaynews.ie/20650-city-council-lose-out-harrmack-development-levies
(BTW, that Harrmack story is an interesting one, not least because of certain City Council/developer cosy relationships. Keep an eye on the local news.)0 -
It's the traffic that we have to suffer through every day.
There are plenty of other issues but it's the one that's in your face.0 -
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Firstly, let's clarify are you're talking about city council officials, or about the fine councillors who we all elected?
I wonder how they compare to people working in fine private sector organisations like Anglo-Irish, AIB ... and even the Catholic church!
To look at your rant in more detail:
Firstly, the lads who clean up the rubbish, piss and vomit that is deposited on the inner city streets every night are not incompetent - they are FANTASTIC!
The folks who take my rubbish away (and dead horses from certain suburbs!), sponsor the arts festival, keep the streets moderately free of stand alone advertising signs, worked with the Doughiska community to build the park/playground out there, enforce parking regulations so that central city parks get shared around .. aren't bad either.
* Mervue water crisis
Somehow I don't think that the council officials who approved building council houses with lead pipes in 1970s (most probably to save ratepayers money) are still there today.
* Winter water freezing (houses without water for a fortnight, over two winters at this stage)
Builders not burying pipes deep enough to deal with exceptional weather is a council problem?
* Galway City Marathon (cancelled due to incompetence / lack of cooperation with organisers)
I've suspended judgement about this one: not convinced we're heard the full story on either side.
* General traffic chaos throughout the year (no sign of a plan, no boost to pedestrians, cyclists, or public transport to encourage people to leave their cars at home)
There IS a plan to improve public transport infrastructure, and we've seen evidence of it in the time I've been here, including the private bus station, Dublin Rd bus lanes, some council-owned bus shelters (they had to fight with BE to stop shelters that only BE services could use), the Forster St bus lane, and extended Christmas park-and-ride. Other aspects are being worked on eg the Seamus Quirke bus lane (which is upsetting to many people in another thread!). There are some aspects of the plan that are just daft, eg no taxi-stand outside the coach station, the Merlin Woods bus lane and the cathedral terminus before there's a better bridge at the Salmon Weir, but overall they're going in the right direction.
It's worth noting that the councils aren't actually responsible for public transport in Ireland - so if a bus company or the guards want to do something silly (eg two bus stops in Bothár what's it Brendan down from Prospect hill) they council can't actually stop it.
* Moneenageisha junction changeover (made a bad situation far worse)
For a pedestrian, or someone who comes down Wellpark after work in the evening, it's vastly better.
* Seamus Quirke Road revamp (taking longer than planned, huge disruption, will it make it any better?)
See bus lane comment above - you can't have them do nothing and not-nothing at the same tiem.
* Art House Cinema (free site from the Council, to close off a lane for a year at least at this stage)
What should they have done? Refused to be involved with the (private sector managed, btw) project in case something went wrong? Opened the road and let motorists fall thru the giant hole that would appear?
There are problems I have with the council: wasn't overly amused to get a letter threatening to take me off the electoral roll unless I contacted them within ten days ... but it took seven days for the letter to get to me. Opening hours for buying rubbish bags are ridiculously short. Lack of a public transport website (ffs, how come it had to be done by a private individual) .. and I could think of some more.
But overall incompetent is too strong a word, IMHO.
Just Mary,
Thanks for your very detailed response. I posed this as a question to see what people think, rather than stating incompetence as a fact and the list of things I came up with was totally off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other issues, too.
My rant was aimed at the officials, rather than the City Councillors, as I believe they are the ones who have the real power at local level. The Councillors squabble all they want about who gets to be Mayor or this road or that, but the officials seem to call the shots in terms of road closures, sorting out water shortages, awarding the ill fated contract for Eyre Square (to a developer who went bust long before the boom), etc.
My rant was certainly NOT aimed at the ordinary Council workers who do such a fab job in cleaning up our city at the crack of dawn or collect your domestic rubbish.
Just to look at a few points again:
* Winter water freezing: Correct me if I'm wrong but it emerged last year that a huge amount of money (millions, was it 25m or something?) had been allocated by the Government to upgrade our public water system, but the Council somehow didn't get around to using this money.
* Mervue water crisis: Fair enough, the officials of 2011 can't be blamed for pipes that were put in in the 1970s. But it was the way they handled the issue and communicated with the public I would take issue with.
* Galway City Marathon. I'd agree that there are two sides to every story, but I'm inclined to believe the Donovans, who are internationally recognised ultra running organisers. They claim the Council obstructed their attempts to run it this year and it's a fact that former Mayor Mike Crowe (ok, he's not an official) wanted the Council to run the marathon themselves. Also the Council failed to provide the Donovans with an idea of what exactly they wanted as a Traffic Management Plan. Instead of helping them improve on an event which admittedly had problems last year, they seemingly obstructed (or at least didn't help) the organisers.
* General traffic chaos: agree some changes have been made. But there is still no sign of a decent, coordinated traffic plan which might encourage people to take the bus or bike to work. Cycling through Galway on a daily basis is a hazard.
* SQR: I pass this road every day. It seems to be taking a lot longer than planned, they've admitted it is running over time, and is it really going to solve or tackle traffic problems in the Westside? We'll see.
* Moneenageisha: Fair enough, if you say it's better for pedestrians and cyclists. I don't use it as often as others here, but the opinion of many boardsters seems to be that the lighted junction has been a disaster.
* Art House cinema: if the council gave the private backers the site for free, then surely they should have some say in why the project has been stalled for so long, why a lane is closed off, why the tender was given to a builder who went out of business, etc. Instead, the officials seem to say it's a matter for the Art House people any time they are asked about it.
* Current road works; having three in the same area all at the one time seems ridiculous. And then I see the official responsible claim in the paper today that traffic is always very heavy in the "third week of August". Really? Do they think these things through? Why carve open three major roads at the same time so?
Anyway, it seems that a lot of people are unhappy with our senior officials and I'd stress that my rant is not aimed at ordinary Council workers.0
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