PART TIME FARMING

jerdee

Just wondering what lads on here do if not farming full time.

i myself juggle full time stevedore with my herd of Pb Angus...

Muckit

jerdee wrote: »

Just wondering what lads on here do if not farming full time.

i myself juggle full time stevedore with my herd of Pb Angus...

Thanks for teaching me a new word, just looked it up!

I'm a civil servant and involved in training.

Bizzum

Muckit wrote: »

Thanks for teaching me a new word, just looked it up!

I'm a civil servant and involved in training.

I'd to look it up too. Not much call for them in Offaly!
Civil Servant too, but usually not that Civil:D

Grecco

A chemical process engineer.
I work 4 12 hour shifts per week, the rest of the week is spent Farming
oh yeah the shifts are on nights as well. Great for the biological clock!!!

yourpics

Civil Engineer

Charlie Charolais

Quantity Surveyor,
Running 50 head dry beef farm, would love to do it full time but not big enough, so part time suits

millertime78

Same boat myself, working in QC in medical device sector and have a small suckler herd keeping the calves to 30 months before slaughter. Learning the hard way I did the following to make life easier:

1. Good fencing and gates - electric fence around perimeter of farm- best money I ever spent.
2. Built a new cattle crush, - easy handling facilities, less stress on animal and me. A must for a one man operation
3. Manageable stock numbers
4. Sub out non-core jobs rather than taking a day off work - some things are best left to the experts - welding, tillage, tractor repairs etc

Biggest problems

1. Not enough time to go to marts- I haven't been to a mart in years
2. Cows calving - when they're going well its fine but when going bad - its awful
3. Not being able to use AI as I'm gone all the time. I'd like to get into better breeds but this takes time and a near continuous presence on the farm.

Still- I wouldn't swap it for anything. I just try to improve it year on year

vanderbadger

millertime78 wrote: »

Same boat myself, working in QC in medical device sector and have a small suckler herd keeping the calves to 30 months before slaughter. Learning the hard way I did the following to make life easier:

1. Good fencing and gates - electric fence around perimeter of farm- best money I ever spent.
2. Built a new cattle crush, - easy handling facilities, less stress on animal and me. A must for a one man operation
3. Manageable stock numbers
4. Sub out non-core jobs rather than taking a day off work - some things are best left to the experts - welding, tillage, tractor repairs etc

Biggest problems

1. Not enough time to go to marts- I haven't been to a mart in years
2. Cows calving - when they're going well its fine but when going bad - its awful
3. Not being able to use AI as I'm gone all the time. I'd like to get into better breeds but this takes time and a near continuous presence on the farm.

Still- I wouldn't swap it for anything. I just try to improve it year on year

you hit the nail on the head there with those points, i find when you are only there for short periods of time that the handling facilites etc need to be good
one thing i have found to be a life saver is new camera i fitted last year, it can pan tilt and zoom so i can cover the whole shed, in fact if it wasnt for dividing walls I could cover all my sheds with the one camera. I can check it from work,previously my camera could only cover 1 spot so if you had more than 1 calving you couldnt really watch them

bbam

Myself and the bro both work in maintenance jobs in the pharma sector. Got out of suckling as we both work hour plus from farm and calving cows was hard being so far off.
Rearing sucks now and finding it more enjoyable and manageable. Not to mention the lack of profit in suckling for small enterprises, no economy of scale to benefit from. What is a viable suckled herd 60+?

lakill Farm

Im a full time accountant for a property lifestyle company, part time accountant at home for a 50 or so private clients with the help of an employee, and i have 2 or 3 other interests.

New to farming since last spring 2010 , although dad is off a diary farm.

Herself is a teacher.

Small at the moment with cattle, 11 heifers at 18 months old and 17 calves approx 5 months old. Plan is to finish 20 heifers (to butcher requirements) each year.

We buy calves at 4 weeks and feed on milk etc.

I do the slurry myself with loan of a 6480 mf and major 2050
get contractor to cut hedges, bales & wrap and also stir the sh*t :rolleyes:
I do bag fert, topping and powerwashing sheds and painting etc.

Got the place fully fenced this year and plannin extension to slatted shed at present and proper crush.


Changes for next year.

Ill buy calves down the south and not off a dealer, as i bought my own trailer recently. Will probably buy calves around 1st January and not March/April.

buying a 1600g tanker and topper this year because i get the loan of the topper and im dizzy going around with 5ft 6" and the finish is crap.

Build a shed combining calf rearing and meal and hay store (roden and draft free:D)

Build onto the slatted shed (straw bed area) and will incorporate cattle handling facility.

Ideal purchase would be a 3 bay hay shed with lean to. God if only i could find one for reasonable money:mad:

jfh

interesting thread, good to get ideas on how others juggle work and farming. starting in the IT sector, long hours and difficult to get time off, like another poster, cant get time off for marts:mad:
father is still working on farm,and farm wouldn't support both of us.
easy thing would be to get rid of the sucklers and buy in calves but i'd hate to get rid of the cows, not sure how i'd manage on my own but some of you seem to. trying to get into easy spring calving cows

Cran

working in finance, hours up and down. in all sheep think its better to focus on one sector.

out of curiousity how big a farm do you think could be managed part-time>? know it would depend on sector but in general what would people think.

Rowley Birkin QC

Not yet but hoping to be in the future. Have a degree in Town Planning & Env. Management and a Masters in GIS.

Hoping to build a a career in either/both of those and when the old man has had enough of it do some part time farming. We got out of dairying a few years ago and he has a full time outside job as well so running sucklers at the moment. Love getting home and away from the office at the weekend to do some "real" work.

Currently it's a lot of maintenance of buildings and fencing as we've always contracted out tractor work like silage, slurry etc.

pakalasa

millertime78 wrote: »

Biggest problems

1. Not enough time to go to marts- I haven't been to a mart in years
2. Cows calving - when they're going well its fine but when going bad - its awful
3. Not being able to use AI as I'm gone all the time. I'd like to get into better breeds but this takes time and a near continuous presence on the farm.

Still- I wouldn't swap it for anything. I just try to improve it year on year

I work off farm full-time. I've 15 cows which I AI. I use teaser bull with Chin-ball and I've the cows trained to come into the yard for a bit of meal. There are 2 or 3 which wont still wont come in. These are ear-marked to be culled when the younger heifers come through.
If cows calve during the day, I can nip home to check on them. Only live 10mins from work. Alot of work but it can be done.
I find that all my spare time is used up though, including a lot of my holidays. That's the real downside.

Username John

Working full time off-farm in IT...

Cran wrote: »

working in finance, hours up and down. in all sheep think its better to focus on one sector.

out of curiousity how big a farm do you think could be managed part-time>? know it would depend on sector but in general what would people think.

Same as yerself Cran - all sheep, albeit on a FAR smaller scale

How big a farm could be managed part-time - dont think there is simple answer to this. I think I remember reading a post on your numbers a while back, and being amazed at the fact you only farm part-time... :eek:

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Not yet but hoping to be in the future. Have a degree in Town Planning & Env. Management and a Masters in GIS.

Whats GIS?

pakalasa wrote: »

I find that all my spare time is used up though, including a lot of my holidays. That's the real downside.

Yeah, same here

Cran

Username John wrote: »

How big a farm could be managed part-time - dont think there is simple answer to this. I think I remember reading a post on your numbers a while back, and being amazed at the fact you only farm part-time... :eek:

old man does look at the sheep each day, and under stocked which to be honest are keys to the set-up. Also do have weekly labour to help, but most of my free time is given up to the farming.
Decision will need to be made in next few years, and if so numbers will need to increase 1000+ already working through options and best way to get there....
monthly wage would be hard to give up though

sako 85

I haven’t actually posted on this forum before, so I suppose this is a bit of an introduction for me. I must say I’ve read some really useful information here. I’m 28 and recently became a part time farmer, I inherited 70 acres in Wicklow last year. I’ve 160 sheep including replacements and I work full time as a Civil Engineer Luckily my father who is recently retired lives close by and does a lot around the place. Loving every minute of being a sheep farmer J. Bill

MfMan

Working in IT full-time, also full-time-ish on the land, i.e. every other spare minute. Managing 120 acres, fair to medium land, buying stores and finishing them off. Easiest system to manage. Very lucky that the job / workplace / boss is fairly flexible so not tied totally to time-keeping. Allows me to get to marts etc. which I like.

Upsides; like the independence and the antidote to 9-5 life that farming provides; like working with cattle and machinery work. Never bored. Extra income, (marginal). Sense of self-importance!

Downsides; very very little spare time; lot of time spent on fencing as fields aren't great in spots, and maintenance work. Very hard to get extra help from family members, esp. in tasks where second pair of hands req'd. Testing cattle, never ever a good time for it. Handling facilities need to be improved further. Somewhat precarious as one is at the whim of outside markets, beef processors etc.

dryan

Part time Beef Finisher.
Full time Software Engineer.

Im blessed to have the boss man still about.
he does the herding and basically keeps an eye on things.
Has a list of jobs for me to do every saturday!

Time is always the issue and its not getting any easier - the last 2 years have been tough. Have 2 young kids now and with both of us working, the evenings (monday to Friday) are a write off!

regarding the stock, i could be carrying a good few more cattle. Doing my best to avoid the dealers. bought a nice few cattle from Donedeal over the last 6 months.
There is one sales yard only a 10 minute drive (on a good day) from work. Have often spent a half hour of my lunch break over there and also managed to buy a few during those times too.

Username John

Cran wrote: »

old man does look at the sheep each day, and under stocked which to be honest are keys to the set-up. Also do have weekly labour to help, but most of my free time is given up to the farming.
Decision will need to be made in next few years, and if so numbers will need to increase 1000+ already working through options and best way to get there....
monthly wage would be hard to give up though

1000+ :eek:

Would you think you would need 1000? Makes me feel like am pure pi'ssing against the wind with my few

Rowley Birkin QC

Username John wrote: »

Whats GIS?

Geographical Information Systems. Basically turning databases into maps that can be queried and analysed to produce results. I've done mas of the farm at home and used them to set tasks and maintenance schedules. Down the line I'd intend to use them to map out where stock is kept based on time since they were last there etc. Fierce handy for explaining to contractors where they are supposed to go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEaMzPo1Q7Q

yourpics

sako 85 wrote: »

I haven’t actually posted on this forum before, so I suppose this is a bit of an introduction for me. I must say I’ve read some really useful information here. I’m 28 and recently became a part time farmer, I inherited 70 acres in Wicklow last year. I’ve 160 sheep including replacements and I work full time as a Civil Engineer Luckily my father who is recently retired lives close by and does a lot around the place. Loving every minute of being a sheep farmer J. Bill

Full time civil engineer? who for??

Cran

Username John wrote: »

1000+ :eek:

Would you think you would need 1000? Makes me feel like am pure pi'ssing against the wind with my few

:Pdepends on what else you do. To make a full time living out of nothing but sheep I think you 700/800+ atleast maybe I'm completely wrong

Grecco

How many Part time lads have a tractor on a farm worth more than 20K. The Farm makes less than 10k per year But then they drive a car worth less than 2K to a job paying more than 40K

Bizzum

Grecco wrote: »

How many Part time lads have a tractor on a farm worth more than 20K. The Farm makes less than 10k per year But then they drive a car worth less than 2K to a job paying more than 40K

I can't believe how accurate you are:).
What has a cow breaking out got to do with you editing your post?

dar31

not be grudging anyone, and more a casual comment, but have noticed as you drive around the country, the amount of stand alone sheds/units, smallish yard, all having new concrete and a fairly new jd/mf etc parked up in them.
but then if you are part time farming, like some of the lads on here that seem to be very knowledgeable and hard working, you do need every thing working right and on the button.

anyways, fair play to them, hard enough keep a farm running smoothly without throwing a full time job on top of it.

JohnBoy

Grecco wrote: »

How many Part time lads have a tractor on a farm worth more than 20K. The Farm makes less than 10k per year But then they drive a car worth less than 2K to a job paying more than 40K

It's funny because it's true

pakalasa

Grecco wrote: »

How many Part time lads have a tractor on a farm worth more than 20K. The Farm makes less than 10k per year But then they drive a car worth less than 2K to a job paying more than 40K

The difference is you can write the tractor off against tax, can't do that with the car. Plus, the tractor wont depreciate anything like the car.
Our tractor is 34 yrs old, but I've spent a small fortune on it recently.:(

reilig

Grecco wrote: »

How many Part time lads have a tractor on a farm worth more than 20K. The Farm makes less than 10k per year But then they drive a car worth less than 2K to a job paying more than 40K

I'm a part-time farmer. The tractor is a 09 and cost €40 odd grand. It does 600 hours per year. Pays for itself. There's a lot to be said for FTS when you have limited time. Have a 1968 MF 168 and a 1958 Mf35 too. All have their specific jobs. Have 120 acres and 60 suckler cows - so I definitely get enough use out of it.

Luckily the farm makes more than 10k per year. We have 2 cars. A 2011 and a 2008. Both do in excess of 50k kilometers per year as both of us have an hours drive to work. Have a 06 jeep for the farm which does about 10k miles per year. Tractors and jeep + their expenses can be written off against tax as both are used solely for farm work.

Have various neighbours with 30 to 50 acres who all farm part-time (10 to 15 cows) and all have less than 5 year old 4wd tractors. One farmer I know has 30 acres and has his own conditioner mower, wrapper and baler - all fairly modern kit for 100 bales per year.

I worked hard to get myself into a job that pays more than 40k per year. 6 years of college where I worked weekends and holidays to have enough money to pay my way. Unpaid work experience to get a foot in the door that I wanted to get into. If people work hard and want to invest their off farm job money into their farm, be it machinery or farm improvements, then I say fair play to them. They are investing in their future.

I'd never look down on someone for working hard.

Tora Bora

reilig wrote: »

I'm a part-time farmer. The tractor is a 09 and cost €40 odd grand. It does 600 hours per year. Pays for itself. There's a lot to be said for FTS when you have limited time. Have a 1968 MF 168 and a 1958 Mf35 too. All have their specific jobs. Have 120 acres and 60 suckler cows - so I definitely get enough use out of it.

Luckily the farm makes more than 10k per year. We have 2 cars. A 2011 and a 2008. Both do in excess of 50k kilometers per year as both of us have an hours drive to work. Have a 06 jeep for the farm which does about 10k miles per year. Tractors and jeep + their expenses can be written off against tax as both are used solely for farm work.

Have various neighbours with 30 to 50 acres who all farm part-time (10 to 15 cows) and all have less than 5 year old 4wd tractors. One farmer I know has 30 acres and has his own conditioner mower, wrapper and baler - all fairly modern kit for 100 bales per year.

I worked hard to get myself into a job that pays more than 40k per year. 6 years of college where I worked weekends and holidays to have enough money to pay my way. Unpaid work experience to get a foot in the door that I wanted to get into. If people work hard and want to invest their off farm job money into their farm, be it machinery or farm improvements, then I say fair play to them. They are investing in their future.

I'd never look down on someone for working hard.

Fair dues to you.

Just one point in relation to cars. A farmer is allowed to write off a portion of family car expenses against tax on the farm income!
Inevitably the car gets used in the day to day running of the farm. Perhaps in your case as you have a jeep as well as two cars you may not get away with it.
But for farmers with just a car, it is allowable against tax, in proportion to its use in farm business. I always put in 33% of the car running cost including depreciation, as a farm expense in the accounts. SAme with telephone bills, ESB, etc,.

reilig

Tora Bora wrote: »

Fair dues to you.

Just one point in relation to cars. A farmer is allowed to write off a portion of family car expenses against tax on the farm income!
Inevitably the car gets used in the day to day running of the farm. Perhaps in your case as you have a jeep as well as two cars you may not get away with it.
But for farmers with just a car, it is allowable against tax, in proportion to its use in farm business. I always put in 33% of the car running cost including depreciation, as a farm expense in the accounts. SAme with telephone bills, ESB, etc,.

Yes, I make those deductions too, however, because I have the jeep, I can't deduct for the car. However, using a jeep would not be economical for 50k kilometers per year.

millertime78

pakalasa wrote: »

I work off farm full-time. I've 15 cows which I AI. I use teaser bull with Chin-ball and I've the cows trained to come into the yard for a bit of meal. There are 2 or 3 which wont still wont come in. These are ear-marked to be culled when the younger heifers come through.
If cows calve during the day, I can nip home to check on them. Only live 10mins from work. Alot of work but it can be done.
I find that all my spare time is used up though, including a lot of my holidays. That's the real downside.

I'm v similar to yourself with 13-15 cows plus replacement heifers. I can't really justify buying a bull.

Some questions regarding the teaser-

Did you buy him or breed him yourself?
Did you get him vasectimised or did you castrate him?
What age did you put the chin ball on him?
How many times a day do you check them?

Grecco

reilig wrote: »

I'd never look down on someone for working hard.

I hope your not trying to make it look like I'm looking down on people that work hard. I know what hard work is. I had to buy every inch of land I own, every animal on the farm and payback every penny to the banks. :mad:


It was just a Funny observation that a lot of people would agree with

pakalasa

millertime78 wrote: »

I'm v similar to yourself with 13-15 cows plus replacement heifers. I can't really justify buying a bull.

Some questions regarding the teaser-

Did you buy him or breed him yourself?
Did you get him vasectimised or did you castrate him?
What age did you put the chin ball on him?
How many times a day do you check them?

Bred him myself. He was about 9 or 10 months when I got him vasectomised. If you're doing one pick one that's showing signs of mounting cows already. A bit of height is good too as he needs to get over the cow to mark her back.
You can put on the chin-ball at any time really, usually when you want to start breeding, or even 4 wks before so that you'll know when to expect cows.
I still check twice a day. You'll know by the way he shadows a cow if she will be bulling soon.
I find at a great job and will get one done again next year, all going well.

jerdee

could you buy a bull that was used last year ..say for next year or would you have to get rid after one season...might try it next year as seen great calves from using coil and ai last year but it gets very expensive if cows start missing..one lad that does my ai get good results the other fecker does not seem to have much sucess but i don t make out the rosster as to who i will get....o well

millertime78

pakalasa wrote: »

Bred him myself. He was about 9 or 10 months when I got him vasectomised. If you're doing one pick one that's showing signs of mounting cows already. A bit of height is good too as he needs to get over the cow to mark her back.
You can put on the chin-ball at any time really, usually when you want to start breeding, or even 4 wks before so that you'll know when to expect cows.
I still check twice a day. You'll know by the way he shadows a cow if she will be bulling soon.
I find at a great job and will get one done again next year, all going well.

Thanks Pakalasa, this is great information, I have a fella earmarked for the job. so this is the plan for next year!!

reilig

Not at all. Apologies if it appeared that way!

Grecco wrote: »

I hope your not trying to make it look like I'm looking down on people that work hard. I know what hard work is. I had to buy every inch of land I own, every animal on the farm and payback every penny to the banks. :mad:


It was just a Funny observation that a lot of people would agree with

zetorman

Another part timer here. Years ago my very wise accountant advised me "never to let my salary and farming money get mixed up ". It has proved to be excellent advice and over the years the farm has basically had to finance itself and where possible send some money my way. (Some years this did not happen). Just wondering if many people here are falling into the trap of spending their off farm income on the farm ????????????

pakalasa

jerdee wrote: »

could you buy a bull that was used last year ..say for next year or would you have to get rid after one season...might try it next year as seen great calves from using coil and ai last year but it gets very expensive if cows start missing..one lad that does my ai get good results the other fecker does not seem to have much sucess but i don t make out the rosster as to who i will get....o well

Teasers, or vasectomised bulls, are for all intents and purposes, the same as a normal bull. He dont know he's firing blanks. So you could buy one that was used last year. You can use a teaser for as many years as you like. Better though to get rid of him after the first season. You wont have the cost of wintering him and you dont have to worry about him turning wicked.
I kept mine for two seasons, but in the second year, I was wary of him. He didnt turn wicked or anything, but he got so big that he could do a lot of damage if he wanted to. He started breaking out into neighbours too when their cows started bulling.
Pick a weanling too that was under a cow. They're less likely to turn aggressive (wicked). That's what the cow psychologists say anyway.
You have to do him at least 6 weeks before you start using him too.

jerdee

pakalasa wrote: »

Teasers, or vasectomised bulls, are for all intents and purposes, the same as a normal bull. He dont know he's firing blanks. So you could buy one that was used last year. You can use a teaser for as many years as you like. Better though to get rid of him after the first season. You wont have the cost of wintering him and you dont have to worry about him turning wicked.
I kept mine for two seasons, but in the second year, I was wary of him. He didnt turn wicked or anything, but he got so big that he could do a lot of damage if he wanted to. He started breaking out into neighbours too when their cows started bulling.
Pick a weanling too that was under a cow. They're less likely to turn aggressive (wicked). That's what the cow psychologists say anyway.
You have to do him at least 6 weeks before you start using him too.

THANKS FOR INFO

jerdee

what kind of money does vet charge to carry out op as i will have to buy a weanling to suit as all my pb bulls and i have want to keep for breeding plus i would like a Angus colour as most of my land is near the main road and don t think it would go down well with neighbors to see a friesan inside with all my blacks....

pakalasa

jerdee wrote: »

what kind of money does vet charge to carry out op as i will have to buy a weanling to suit as all my pb bulls and i have want to keep for breeding plus i would like a Angus colour as most of my land is near the main road and don t think it would go down well with neighbors to see a friesan inside with all my blacks....

About 70 Euro, if I remember right. Might be safer to use one of your own, if possible. Less likely to bring in a disease, especially a sexually tramsmitted one.;)

Ya, you would have a lot of explaining to do alright, if the neighbours see a friesian bull mounting pb limousin cows.

YoureSoVain

Ya, you would have a lot of explaining to do alright, if the neighbours see a friesian bull mounting pb limousin cows.[/QUOTE]

Hi, I have absolutly nothing to do with farming but love reading this section! Can someone explain the above for me please?

Bodacious

YoureSoVain wrote: »

Ya, you would have a lot of explaining to do alright, if the neighbours see a friesian bull mounting pb limousin cows.

Hi, I have absolutly nothing to do with farming but love reading this section! Can someone explain the above for me please?[/QUOTE]

Basically what the lads are on about here is getting the vet to conduct an operation to disconnect a bull's tube from his ball sack disconnected so he thinks he is the real deal with the ladies but he is not!! (teaser bull)

This animal will simply then indicate when a cow is ready to be artifically inseminated with semen from a genetically superior animal ie. Purebreed Limousin.

The teaser would be less noticeable in this case from the road if he was the same colour as the cows, a black n' white scrawny fresian would stick out like a sore thumb in a field of good sized red PB muscley cows.

May even cause an accident as we farmers are nosy buggers looking in over walls and gardens all the time, me especially:):D

YoureSoVain

OOH! I see! I'm sure people have seen worse though

LostCovey

Appearances.

Like matching the curtains with the 3-piece suite.

Farmers are also so vain!

LC

millertime78

pakalasa wrote: »

Teasers, or vasectomised bulls, are for all intents and purposes, the same as a normal bull. He dont know he's firing blanks. So you could buy one that was used last year. You can use a teaser for as many years as you like. Better though to get rid of him after the first season. You wont have the cost of wintering him and you dont have to worry about him turning wicked.
I kept mine for two seasons, but in the second year, I was wary of him. He didnt turn wicked or anything, but he got so big that he could do a lot of damage if he wanted to. He started breaking out into neighbours too when their cows started bulling.
Pick a weanling too that was under a cow. They're less likely to turn aggressive (wicked). That's what the cow psychologists say anyway.
You have to do him at least 6 weeks before you start using him too.

Not to ask a stupid question but would a castrated bullock do the job as effectively ???

reilig

millertime78 wrote: »

Not to ask a stupid question but would a castrated bullock do the job as effectively ???

The castrated bullock is castrated. ie. His cords are severed, so his bits don't work. He is less inclined to follow animals in heat in this case. When the vet vasectomises the bull, he jjust disconnects the tube that carries the sperm. The bull actually thinks and feels that his gear is in full working order - however, he is firing blanks. yet he is still more inclined to follow animals in heat than the castrated bullock.

pakalasa

A bull acts completely different from a bullock. A bullock will only show interest in the cow if she is 'in heat', if he shows interest at all. It's hit and miss really. A bull, especially an older bull in his second year, will follow (shadow) a cow for up to 2 days before she comes in standing heat. A bullock wont do this.
I've been told too that the very presence of a bull will help bring a cow into heat. He'll also mount her if she has a very weak heat, usually the first heat after calving.
I have used a bullock too with a chin ball marker, but not as good as the full bull.

ki

Software Eng.

jerdee

pakalasa wrote: »

About 70 Euro, if I remember right. Might be safer to use one of your own, if possible. Less likely to bring in a disease, especially a sexually tramsmitted one.;)

Ya, you would have a lot of explaining to do alright, if the neighbours see a friesian bull mounting pb limousin cows.

sorry its all black angus i have and most of my bulls i have sold to my neighbours some pre booked so they would be watching everything i do ie over hedges and from the hills around.got three comments on my new stock bull already this vear so a feckin friesian teaser wouldn t be the biz will look out a black weanling next time at mart..........