Red Arrows - GAAW

celty

Xflyer,

So you think it's fine that US troops refuel in Shannon and buy the little green leprechauns on their way to and from Afghanistan and Iraq? Given that we're a former colony, I actually used to think 'neutrality' stood for something.

I'm no apologist for Niall Farrell but the British and Americans seem to think they are fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are imperialist crusades, in our name.

Those wars nothing to do with 9/11 and everything to do with the US Government's buddies in the arms trade during the Bush regime.

It makes me sick that silly little Ireland stands for nothing, and God knows what kind of secret 'renditions' have gone through Shannon. I'm sure the wonderful Gardai of Co Clare do a thorough job of inspecting the war machines, seeing as how there aren't enough of them to patrol the coastal towns.

As for Israel and Palestine, well of course Irish people would have no concept of what it's like to be invaded and have their land stolen as happened to the Palestinians in 1948 and again in 1967.

How quickly we forget our own history of colonsiation and brutality. And that doesn't meen I support the IRA or GAAW.

apoeiguq3094y

celty wrote: »

Xflyer,

So you think it's fine that US troops refuel in Shannon and buy the little green leprechauns on their way to and from Afghanistan and Iraq? Given that we're a former colony, I actually used to think 'neutrality' stood for something.

I'm no apologist for Niall Farrell but the British and Americans seem to think they are fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are imperialist crusades, in our name.

Those wars nothing to do with 9/11 and everything to do with the US Government's buddies in the arms trade during the Bush regime.

It makes me sick that silly little Ireland stands for nothing, and God knows what kind of secret 'renditions' have gone through Shannon. I'm sure the wonderful Gardai of Co Clare do a thorough job of inspecting the war machines, seeing as how there aren't enough of them to patrol the coastal towns.

As for Israel and Palestine, well of course Irish people would have no concept of what it's like to be invaded and have their land stolen as happened to the Palestinians in 1948 and again in 1967.

How quickly we forget our own history of colonsiation and brutality. And that doesn't meen I support the IRA or GAAW.

Letting american personnel flights refuel in shannon means that we are seen to be friendly towards the US in general. It means that they let us have border preclearance here. It means that US companies are more likely to do business here. It benefits our economy. If we stopped them refueling here they would just refuel somewhere else.

We are a small country of 4 million or so. NATO or the US don't really give a flying funk what our opinion is on their plans. The air shows only benefit us, we get to see some shiny planes and a few people make some money around galway.

If you really wanted to go all out in your protesting against US imperialism, you'd stop using US oil companies products... which includes all plastics as well as petrol/diesel, and all other big US companies for that matter: Apple, Google, Intel, etc.

The air show was fun. The planes were class. And now its gone.

eagle10

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Letting american personnel flights refuel in shannon means that we are seen to be friendly towards the US in general. It means that they let us have border preclearance here. It means that US companies are more likely to do business here. It benefits our economy. If we stopped them refueling here they would just refuel somewhere else.

We are a small country of 4 million or so. NATO or the US don't really give a flying funk what our opinion is on their plans. The air shows only benefit us, we get to see some shiny planes and a few people make some money around galway.

If you really wanted to go all out in your protesting against US imperialism, you'd stop using US oil companies products... which includes all plastics as well as petrol/diesel, and all other big US companies for that matter: Apple, Google, Intel, etc.

The air show was fun. The planes were class. And now its gone.

Good post fair play

samdeman

apoeiguq3094y wrote: »

Letting american personnel flights refuel in shannon means that we are seen to be friendly towards the US in general. It means that they let us have border preclearance here. It means that US companies are more likely to do business here. It benefits our economy. If we stopped them refueling here they would just refuel somewhere else.

We are a small country of 4 million or so. NATO or the US don't really give a flying funk what our opinion is on their plans. The air shows only benefit us, we get to see some shiny planes and a few people make some money around galway.

If you really wanted to go all out in your protesting against US imperialism, you'd stop using US oil companies products... which includes all plastics as well as petrol/diesel, and all other big US companies for that matter: Apple, Google, Intel, etc.

The air show was fun. The planes were class. And now its gone.

thats not 100% true. from what i have seen the GAAW do boycott certain american and uk products ie. shower gel, shampoo, soap etc.

xflyer

It makes me sick that silly little Ireland stands for nothing

Same here, whether you agree with me or not. It's sickening that Ireland's stands for nothing.

I'm no apologist for Niall Farrell but the British and Americans seem to think they are fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are imperialist crusades, in our name.

When someone uses the words Imperialist crusades' alarm bells go off. Apparently you would prefer that the Afghans and Iraqis would live under violently oppressiver regimes than for anyone to do anything about it? Perhaps you are in favour or Assad and Gaddafi and all the other repressive regimes that of late have become unpopular with their own people.

Have you been watching the news today? Is NATO being imperialist in helping the Lybian rebels?

Make your mind up!

In any case the great thing about being Irish is that we have zero influence on world affairs and quite frankly no one gives a damm about what we think. Even the Americans were happy enough to pull out of Shannon if we wanted it. But FF could't allow that as it would puncture the delusion we have some relevance and that Shannon is important. That is the conceit that both the GAAW and the Irish government believe. We think we're relevant. But we're not and the GAAW is merely a bunch of trendy lefties living in Galway, which is a cosy little place where nothing much happens and it's easy to be pseudo radical with no consequences.

Farrell and his little friends are irrelevant, even in Galway which is a small town in a small country that has a history of absenting itself from any relevant contribution to European politics and defence.

We don't live in the real world here.

Discodog

samdeman wrote: »

thats not 100% true. from what i have seen the GAAW do boycott certain american and uk products ie. shower gel, shampoo, soap etc.

Gosh that must be damaging the trade figures

Better hope that the UK & American don't boycott us.

Pure Sound

Why does everyone compare Libya with the Iraq and Afganistan situation, they are not in any way the same.

Afganistan - invaded by America due to the links with the taliban, basically a revenge mission to a poor country with oil production in mind.

Iraq - Opression and tyranny used as an excuse to invade for oil, over a million people killed due to the war whilst saddam is responsible for 10% of this figure during his entire reign.

Libya - An uprising by the people of Libya to get a reigning autocratic leader out. The rebels begin to take control and strongly look like winning so NATO decide to jump onboardas they know Gaddafis reign is about to end. When the new government is formed relations with NATO will be good so oil can be made available to the western world. If it looked like Gaddafi was going to win NATO would not have intervined.

Why is it that they have not removed leaders such as Mugabe, Mahmoud Ahmadinehad and Kim Jong-II if the so concerned about humanitarian issues. Why have NATO failed to give the people of Syria the same back up?

Talk of boycotting USA products is ridiculous too, products made in the USA and planes that represent war are not like for like. I'm not saying that NATO, America and the UK are always wrong, but from where I am standing they are looking out for their own interests.

ben.schlomo

We Need Community wrote: »

Why does everyone compare Libya with the Iraq and Afganistan situation, they are not in any way the same.

Afganistan - invaded by America due to the links with the taliban, basically a revenge mission to a poor country with oil production in mind.

Iraq - Opression and tyranny used as an excuse to invade for oil, over a million people killed due to the war whilst saddam is responsible for 10% of this figure during his entire reign.

Libya - An uprising by the people of Libya to get a reigning autocratic leader out. The rebels begin to take control and strongly look like winning so NATO decide to jump onboardas they know Gaddafis reign is about to end. When the new government is formed relations with NATO will be good so oil can be made available to the western world. If it looked like Gaddafi was going to win NATO would not have intervined.

Why is it that they have not removed leaders such as Mugabe, Mahmoud Ahmadinehad and Kim Jong-II if the so concerned about humanitarian issues. Why have NATO failed to give the people of Syria the same back up?

Talk of boycotting USA products is ridiculous too, products made in the USA and planes that represent war are not like for like. I'm not saying that NATO, America and the UK are always wrong, but from where I am standing they are looking out for their own interests.

1. Afghanistan- It wasnt links with the Taliban, the Taliban were the govt and they turned a blind eye to the activities of Al-Qaeda within its borders.
2. Libya- The rebels did not 'strongly look like winning' before NATO involvement. They had taken a couple of eastern towns but were losing control and then gaining these back day after day.

Pure Sound

You havn't answered anything, all you have done is pick things wrong with my post which is quite childish, it doesn't change anything

Afganistan - America invaded them
Libya - NATO aided an uprising

They are still very different situations

ben.schlomo

We Need Community wrote: »

You havn't answered anything, all you have done is pick things wrong with my post which is quite childish, it doesn't change anything

Afganistan - America invaded them
Libya - NATO aided an uprising

They are still very different situations

I was clearing up the mistakes in what you posted, you were using those points to back what you are saying, i simply corrected you on those points. Its in no way childish, no need to be so defensive about it.
You have also failed to mention the reason America went into Afghanistan. Nobody can say it wasn't warranted.

Discodog

We Need Community wrote: »

Why does everyone compare Libya with the Iraq and Afganistan situation, they are not in any way the same.

Afganistan - invaded by America due to the links with the taliban, basically a revenge mission to a poor country with oil production in mind.

Iraq - Opression and tyranny used as an excuse to invade for oil, over a million people killed due to the war whilst saddam is responsible for 10% of this figure during his entire reign.

Libya - An uprising by the people of Libya to get a reigning autocratic leader out. The rebels begin to take control and strongly look like winning so NATO decide to jump onboardas they know Gaddafis reign is about to end. When the new government is formed relations with NATO will be good so oil can be made available to the western world. If it looked like Gaddafi was going to win NATO would not have intervined.

Why is it that they have not removed leaders such as Mugabe, Mahmoud Ahmadinehad and Kim Jong-II if the so concerned about humanitarian issues. Why have NATO failed to give the people of Syria the same back up?

Talk of boycotting USA products is ridiculous too, products made in the USA and planes that represent war are not like for like. I'm not saying that NATO, America and the UK are always wrong, but from where I am standing they are looking out for their own interests.

Invading Afghanistan was wrong but 9/11 took terrorism to a whole new level. America was bound to react.

Where were the anti war groups when Saddam was gassing thousands of Kurds ?

Maybe NATO have failed to intervene in other Countries because it is impossible to do so without encountering massive criticism. It is so easy for any despot to ensure that civilians are killed knowing that this will bring condemnation.

Do you think that allowing Iraq to build a nuclear weapon reduces the likelihood of war ?

PomBear

Bit too much attacking one man, Niall Farrell personally in this thread, no?

ben.schlomo

PomBear wrote: »

Bit too much attacking one man, Niall Farrell personally in this thread, no?

No, he and his ilk clearly get up peoples noses. We are exercising our right to protest against him in this thread.;)

PomBear

ben.schlomo wrote: »

No, he and his ilk clearly get up peoples noses. We are exercising our right to protest against him in this thread.;)

How has he got up your nose personally?

Pure Sound

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I was clearing up the mistakes in what you posted, you were using those points to back what you are saying, i simply corrected you on those points. Its in no way childish, no need to be so defensive about it.
You have also failed to mention the reason America went into Afghanistan. Nobody can say it wasn't warranted.

My point was to try and show the differences between Libya, Afganistan and Iraq which so many here keep comparing, fair enough I apoligise for the accusations of childishness.

Discodog wrote: »

Do you think that allowing Iraq to build a nuclear weapon reduces the likelihood of war ?

Weapons of mass destruction was always a cover up which was proven by the fact that none were found, if they were the reasons why have they not entered Iran or the North Korea. I assume that these groups were not protesting about Saddams regime because Ireland were not allies of him.

PomBear wrote: »

Bit too much attacking one man, Niall Farrell personally in this thread, no?

Haha I assume you are referring to me, I have nothing to do with GAAW, I just don't understand why so many people can have so much against them, they are a small group of people who gain a lot of attention because (From my own understanding) they don't agree with imperialism. Why would anyone agree with imperialism? What has anyone here have to gain by supporting it?

I understand people miss the airshow, it was a good day out, but as soon as the planes that came here represented unjust wars we should have stopped watching it.

ben.schlomo

PomBear wrote: »

How has he got up your nose personally?

I find him to be an incredibly irritating person to listen to, they bandwagon onto the latest Western regime to be hated and ignore the rest. Im easily annoyed by people so im not a great case study for why hes not liked.

tfitzgerald

A lot of the U S army flights in Shannon took on fuel and food and also the money spent in the duty free so they actually helped in the area I worked in the airport and the money they spent in the duty free kept more than a few people in employment

Pure Sound

tfitzgerald wrote: »

A lot of the U S army flights in Shannon took on fuel and food and also the money spent in the duty free so they actually helped in the area I worked in the airport and the money they spent in the duty free kept more than a few people in employment

That makes it all ok so, sure who cares if a million people were killed, a few Irish people were kept in work

Predalien

Discodog wrote: »

Invading Afghanistan was wrong but 9/11 took terrorism to a whole new level. America was bound to react.

Where were the anti war groups when Saddam was gassing thousands of Kurds ?

Maybe NATO have failed to intervene in other Countries because it is impossible to do so without encountering massive criticism. It is so easy for any despot to ensure that civilians are killed knowing that this will bring condemnation.

Do you think that allowing Iraq to build a nuclear weapon reduces the likelihood of war ?

With weapons given to him by the USA...

No, there haven't been interventions in other parts of the middle east where uprisings are taking place as it is not in the financial or economic interests of the powerful nations to do so, these interventions have effectively no humanitarian purpose, they are purely down to economics.

PomBear

ben.schlomo wrote: »

I find him to be an incredibly irritating person to listen to, they bandwagon onto the latest Western regime to be hated and ignore the rest. Im easily annoyed by people so im not a great case study for why hes not liked.

I've an idea, if you don't want to listen to him, don't.

For a man who has little to no media coverage, it's not hard, it's even easier to not read an article/letter of the Advertiser, Independent and so on

PomBear

We Need Community wrote: »

Haha I assume you are referring to me, I have nothing to do with GAAW, I just don't understand why so many people can have so much against them, they are a small group of people who gain a lot of attention because (From my own understanding) they don't agree with imperialism. Why would anyone agree with imperialism? What has anyone here have to gain by supporting it?

I understand people miss the airshow, it was a good day out, but as soon as the planes that came here represented unjust wars we should have stopped watching it.

I wasn't referring to anyone. I have just seen this guys name brought up a few times here with a number of false accusations and speculating, all of which completely untrue (I know the family).

Discodog

We Need Community wrote: »

Weapons of mass destruction was always a cover up which was proven by the fact that none were found, if they were the reasons why have they not entered Iran or the North Korea..

Are you seriously suggesting that North Korea doesn't have nuclear weapon & that Iran are not trying to build one ?

Mind you by GAAW logic if Iran nuked Israel it would be seen as justified.

tfitzgerald

We Need Community wrote: »

That makes it all ok so, sure who cares if a million people were killed, a few Irish people were kept in work

Ok glad we are not exaggerating here America was going to defend itself with or without our help

xflyer

I just don't understand why so many people can have so much against them, they are a small group of people who gain a lot of attention because (From my own understanding) they don't agree with imperialism. Why would anyone agree with imperialism? What has anyone here have to gain by supporting it?

No one here is in favour of imperialism and no one here is actually criticising anyone for their stance on imperialism.

That isn't actually the point of this discussion so why bring it up? In any case as you quite well know it's not their stance on Imperialism that's at issue.

Really though they are quite irrelevant to most of us. The only rags that publish their nonsense are the freesheets. They are best ignored.

ben.schlomo

PomBear wrote: »

I've an idea, if you don't want to listen to him, don't.

For a man who has little to no media coverage, it's not hard, it's even easier to not read an article/letter of the Advertiser, Independent and so on

Wouldn't life be very boring if we followed your theories.

Discodog

xflyer wrote: »

Really though they are quite irrelevant to most of us. The only rags that publish their nonsense are the freesheets. They are best ignored.

I agree but we need to be wary. These fringe type groups can have a nasty habit of influencing Council & Government policy.

celty

xflyer wrote: »

Same here, whether you agree with me or not. It's sickening that Ireland's stands for nothing.

When someone uses the words Imperialist crusades' alarm bells go off. Apparently you would prefer that the Afghans and Iraqis would live under violently oppressiver regimes than for anyone to do anything about it? Perhaps you are in favour or Assad and Gaddafi and all the other repressive regimes that of late have become unpopular with their own people.

Have you been watching the news today? Is NATO being imperialist in helping the Lybian rebels?

Make your mind up!

In any case the great thing about being Irish is that we have zero influence on world affairs and quite frankly no one gives a damm about what we think. Even the Americans were happy enough to pull out of Shannon if we wanted it. But FF could't allow that as it would puncture the delusion we have some relevance and that Shannon is important. That is the conceit that both the GAAW and the Irish government believe. We think we're relevant. But we're not and the GAAW is merely a bunch of trendy lefties living in Galway, which is a cosy little place where nothing much happens and it's easy to be pseudo radical with no consequences.

Farrell and his little friends are irrelevant, even in Galway which is a small town in a small country that has a history of absenting itself from any relevant contribution to European politics and defence.

We don't live in the real world here.

Rubbish. What makes you think that if you oppose British and American imperialism that you would automatically support Assad, Ghadaffi and other oppressive regimes?

As others have said, there is a big difference between NATO supporting an uprising and an invasion of the likes carried out in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, the Taliban were appalling, yes, Saddam was appalling too, but the US have absolutley no qualms about propping up dictators or assassinating leaders they don't like whenever it suits.

For God's sake, I have been to the Middle East ten times and the US were quite happy to support Mubarak, an oppressive dictator, for 25 years until the people rose up against him.

It's not a matter of Galway or Ireland or Shannon being important or relevant to world affairs. It's a matter of principles, things we seem to have forgotten in this country in our rush to greed over the past decade or two.

I find it sickening that illegally held prisoners may have been tortured on planes travelling to and from Shannon. I'm entitled to have this opinion, even in little 'oul leprechaun land which was supposedly neutral one time.

As for the man you are all on about, I think I'd have a chip in my shoulder too if my unarmed sister was murdered while walking down a street in Gibraltar when she could have been arrested and given a fair trial. Read a book called 'Reportage' some time .... but maybe it was written by some hippie, leftie who doesn't use US shampoo.

And, to this day, I don't think too many Iraqis and Afghanis are too happy with the US troops on their streets. But, then again, they are only Iraqis and Afghanis, so their opinions don't count. Like the Irish, I suppose.

Anyway, the war machines don't fly over Galway any more. It's not good to teach Galway kids that it's good to glorify war machines which bring terror to innocent people on the other side of the world.

PomBear

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Wouldn't life be very boring if we followed your theories.

I find Jersey Shore annoying, when it's on TV, I switch the channel. Simples.

Amhran Nua

mikemac wrote: »

The Russian navy were off the west coast of Ireland a number of years ago and not a word from GAAW.

xflyer wrote: »

They're oddly silent on the behaviour of Syria for example not to mention any of the other oppressive regimes out there.

The GAAW are one of the tentacles of the United Left Alliance/People before Profit/Socialist Workers Party/Militant Labour/Socialist party or whatever they are calling themselves these days. They are silent on matters to do with Russia because they're the last dregs of the cells put in place by Russian intelligence during the cold war, which the Russians did in every European country, I've no idea whether any connection still persists though.

These are communist trotskyists, who were expelled with Joe Higgins at their head from the Labour party in 1989 for entryism, and they've gotten a reputation for protesting wars where the US is involved because like a severed frog's leg, they are still trying to fulfill their purpose. Hopefully there aren't many kicks left in it.

Until then however we'll have to put up with their buffoonery. The theory goes that a true Marxist must support any revolutionary movement for the good of the people, so it was entertaining watching their heads asplode with regards to the Arab uprisings, which went against Russian interests.

Sounds like the plot of a bad novel? Life can be stranger than fiction my friends.

celty

Amhran Nua wrote: »

The GAAW are one of the tentacles of the United Left Alliance/People before Profit/Socialist Workers Party/Militant Labour/Socialist party or whatever they are calling themselves these days. They are silent on matters to do with Russia because they're the last dregs of the cells put in place by Russian intelligence during the cold war, which the Russians did in every European country, I've no idea whether any connection still persists though.

These are communist trotskyists, who were expelled with Joe Higgins at their head from the Labour party in 1989 for entryism, and they've gotten a reputation for protesting wars where the US is involved because like a severed frog's leg, they are still trying to fulfill their purpose. Hopefully there aren't many kicks left in it.

Until then however we'll have to put up with their buffoonery. The theory goes that a true Marxist must support any revolutionary movement for the good of the people, so it was entertaining watching their heads asplode with regards to the Arab uprisings, which went against Russian interests.

Sounds like the plot of a bad novel? Life can be stranger than fiction my friends.

Yeah, and you sound like a good ole' FF / Profit before People supporter. Once upon a time we had to put up with their buffoonery, in fact we still do as our wages are slashed, taxes increased, so that we can pay off their good friends the bankers who lent too much money to their developer buddies, after rubbing shoulders with them in the tent at the Galway Races.

Can you not see that when the Americans use our airport to commit atrocities in countries where they have no business in interfering, then we are complicit?

As far as I know, no Irish Airport is being used to transport Russian troops to commit atrocities in Chechnya.