Red Arrows - GAAW

dloob

Few years ago the Clifden airshow had a civilian display team made up of former fighter pilots with distinguished service in Afghanistan etc.
There wasn't a peep from the GAAW about it, so I guess they don't mind that. :pac:

samdeman

biko wrote: »

Wrap it up folks, I'm sending in the jet fighters tomorrow morning.

please don't lock the thread biko. nearly 4000 views. people are loving this thread:(

Dan_Solo

Mactard wrote: »

"that's OK, nobody expected you to know" about Godwin's law ok that's not true, I expected you to know about it, but I could hardly not quote you, the irony meter is bubbling over!

There's no evidence except whatever passes for ideas going through your neurons that I don't know about Godwin's Law. In fact, I seem to know more about it than you do as there is no automatic assumption of losing an argument by mentioning Nazis. You just made that up. At least you aren't hindered by facts or logic in making your arguments.

Mactard wrote: »

Lets get this clear, the Red Arrows, as in the team, the whole package, under the "Red Arrows" team name/label/banner, have never bombed iraqi villages.

But they aren't that. By definition of talking absolute cobblers you have lost this argument which is far more conclusive than any pretend meaning of Godwin's Law. The Red Arrows are an "aeroabtic team". You're telling me that jet planes come in teams now? Well done on inventing a collective noun.

Mactard wrote: »

Whether or not all their pilots have bombed iraqi villages outside of (before joining) the Red Arrows I'm not at all certain, but as part of the Red Arrows (while flying the aircraft that make them part of the Red Arrows) they most definitely and irrefutably have not done so.

The Red Arrows are pilots. Some of those pilots have bombed Iraqis and Afghanis. Therefore some of the Red Arrows have bombed Iraqis and Afghans.
It can't be made simpler than that, but something tells me it isn't simple enough for you.

Mactard wrote: »

Gleefully awaiting your next dickish remark, you could try underlining something next time, or typing a word and then putting a strike though it, that'd definitely show me a thing or two, it'd really put me in my place.

Another new word defintion from Mactard! "dickish" is now proving somebody completely wrong and their opposite number being utterly clueless as to why everybody is laughing at them...
Complete irony bypass to go with the logicectomy using bold font and then having a girlie whine about the same thing BTW.

Sponge Bob

Dan_Solo wrote: »

The Red Arrows are pilots. Some of those pilots have bombed Iraqis and Afghanis. Therefore some of the Red Arrows have bombed Iraqis and Afghans.It can't be made simpler than that, but something tells me it isn't simple enough for you.

They are frontline fighter pilots on temporary assignment. Don't forget that next years Red Arrows may well have bombed Libyans too.

But they don't bomb anybody when they are Red Arrowing do they ?????

GalwayGaillimh

I for one would love to see the Airshow back in Galway along with the Red Arrows.
Its good for Galway and was one of the largest free Air Shows in Europe from what I remember.

Dan_Solo

Sponge Bob wrote: »

But they don't bomb anybody when they are Red Arrowing do they ?????

They're in the PR arm of the RAF. Why does it make any difference which squadron of an air force they are in? Can we invite the Syrian army marching band for Paddy's Day as they haven't shot anybody while being in that division?
I'm not even against the airshow. Just some of the logic being used to distance the Red Arrows from RAF bombings in bizarre in the extreme.

Sponge Bob

Syrian army marching bands are boooOOOoring Dan but if they would kindly send a few Mig 29s we might have some fun. :cool:

Head The Wall

Maybe we should get a lend of one of the six the Sukhoi Su-30 jets we helped Uganda buy with 166 million of aid money.

Dan_Solo

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Syrian army marching bands are boooOOOoring Dan but if they would kindly send a few Mig 29s we might have some fun. :cool:

I'd prefer to see the Mig 25 myself. Gave NATO a case of the willies by all accounts that one!:D

Sponge Bob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Simply send one of the air corps lads over to repossess it Head the wall , SU30s are fun machines to watch what with vector thrust features and ****.

Coupla nice cobras here at 40 secs onwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daOPK07baBw

I means what would they do if the Air Corps went and nicked repossessed it, invade us????? Mig 25s just fly really fast and burn out their engines at the same time. Gimme a Sukhoi any day.

Dan_Solo

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Mig 25s just fly really fast and burn out their engines at the same time. Gimme a Sukhoi any day.

They're the Lamborghini of the commie jet range alright, but I'm not getting the problem with "flying really fast" myself.
Burning out their engines... great news for pacifists, not so much for greens...

Sponge Bob

Dan_Solo wrote: »

, but I'm not getting the problem with "flying really fast" myself.

At mach 2.5 they would break a lot of windows in Salthill and the display would last around 10 seconds Dan. Maybe we will take an interest in the Sea Gripen if the Brits buy them to stop the F35s they originally chose from burning their carrier decks to a crisp.

Don't laugh, it is all true!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0jgZKV4N_A

inisboffin

Another airshow crash in the US! Older plane, 'mechanical failure' a possibility. Not going to help things. RIP

Sonofcicero

Some interesting comments about the Alliance Against Everything. A little bit of honesty would be nice - they're not against Everything, just anything American, British or Israeli. I've never seen them protest against Arab terrorists or the IRA murder machine, or the inconsistencies of the Left in Ireland. They're very well balanced - a chip on each shoulder. Let's just laugh at them - they hate that.

xflyer

inisboffin wrote: »

Another airshow crash in the US! Older plane, 'mechanical failure' a possibility. Not going to help things. RIP

Completely irrelevant, Reno is about air racing. Highly tuned racers, modified to the limit. Almost nothing on them is 'old'. Even though the basic aircraft is WW2 in theory almost nothing of the original exists. Probably the only original part of the P51 Mustang that crashed was the data plate.

It's not an airshow. Everyone there knew exactly the risks. Exactly the same as someone going to a motor race.

There is no comparision. People get killed air racing all the time simply because it's a dangerous sport.

It was a tragedy though but no relevance to a relatively sedate airshow held overhead Galway bay.

Eman Resu

To be honest the oldest component of the aircraft in question was between the seat and the controls. Terrible tragedy but more are lost to booze and fags each year than to aircraft fatalities.

inisboffin

xflyer wrote: »

Everyone there knew exactly the risks. Exactly the same as someone going to a motor race.

There is no comparision. People get killed air racing all the time simply because it's a dangerous sport.

It was a tragedy though but no relevance to a relatively sedate airshow held overhead Galway bay.

Seriously? Every spectator on the ground that got smashed by that plane 'knew the risks'? I highly doubt it. I wouldn't have if I wandered in as a tourist. And as for the semantics, it seems to be called both an 'air show' and 'air race' in different sources
Look, I'm not out protesting the airshow in Galway, but tbh I'm not mad about them either. I posted the link in a thread where people were discussing airshows, air displays, danger, lack of danger, planes, robbing planes etc, so I thought it was relevant enough to post.


And are we seriously gonna have the 'smoking fags kills more people than airshows' discussion? Really?

ben.schlomo

http://www.airrace.org/

Reno is very much air racing, and yes you would or at least should know that when you attend an event like that.

Discodog

The Americans have tended to be less health & safety than here. But we have hosted the Red Bull Air Races. The "fly line" at Salthill was well over the sea. The only incident, the helicopter door, occurred because it was allowed to overfly the crowd.

xflyer

Seriously? Every spectator on the ground that got smashed by that plane 'knew the risks'

Yes seriously, Reno is NOT an airshow it's an air race. But of course there's an airshow element. It is somewhat analagous to an accident in Formula 1 or Indycar. Even a casual tourist would have been made aware. But there would have been few casual tourists. It's very much a enthusiast's event.

So the comparision isn't valid. I'm not having a go at you. You just wouldn't be aware of the history of the event.

Every year there's a five day airshow in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. It's attracts 10,000 aircraft and an attendance of over half a million. Very few of them would be casual tourists. That's the way it is in America.

In any case the one and only reason the Salthill airshow isn't ongoing is simply financial. No other reason.

Eman Resu

And are we seriously gonna have the 'smoking fags kills more people than airshows' discussion? Really?

I never said that what I said was "Aircraft fatalities" that means any type of death due to an aircraft.

inisboffin

xflyer wrote: »

Seriously? Every spectator on the ground that got smashed by that plane 'knew the risks'

Yes seriously, Reno is NOT an airshow it's an air race. But of course there's an airshow element. It is somewhat analagous to an accident in Formula 1 or Indycar. Even a casual tourist would have been made aware. But there would have been few casual tourists. It's very much a enthusiast's event.

So the comparision isn't valid. I'm not having a go at you. You just wouldn't be aware of the history of the event.

Every year there's a five day airshow in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. It's attracts 10,000 aircraft and an attendance of over half a million. Very few of them would be casual tourists. That's the way it is in America.

In any case the one and only reason the Salthill airshow isn't ongoing is simply financial. No other reason.

Fair enough I don't claim to know the history of the event, and from what you are saying it seems like 'air races' are known to be dangerous for the spectator.
My Mum though, used to go to car rallies and trials when she was younger, and honestly was completely traumatised, and still tells the story of witnessing an accident. I think that, while people may be *told* in a crowd, I don't know that they still fully *get* that they are in danger. People come in families etc, and I suspect people are degrees of clued in as to what's happening.

I know it's not the same as Galway, and fair point about the crowd flyover being different. This seems to be the area that puts spectators at most risk (as opposed to spectators and debris mid air).

As an off the street punter, less informed or not though, reading about another 'air incident', would not warm me to airshows any more, whether 'irrelevant' or not.

inisboffin

Eman Resu wrote: »

I never said that what I said was "Aircraft fatalities" that means any type of death due to an aircraft.

Oh in *that* case...
Nope, not going there either!

Eman Resu

Fair enough!

dloob

inisboffin wrote: »

Fair enough I don't claim to know the history of the event, and from what you are saying it seems like 'air races' are known to be dangerous for the spectator.
My Mum though, used to go to car rallies and trials when she was younger, and honestly was completely traumatised, and still tells the story of witnessing an accident. I think that, while people may be *told* in a crowd, I don't know that they still fully *get* that they are in danger. People come in families etc, and I suspect people are degrees of clued in as to what's happening.

I know it's not the same as Galway, and fair point about the crowd flyover being different. This seems to be the area that puts spectators at most risk (as opposed to spectators and debris mid air).

As an off the street punter, less informed or not though, reading about another 'air incident', would not warm me to airshows any more, whether 'irrelevant' or not.

I was reading about the Reno air races, the aircraft are heavily modified to run beyond the original design limits.
It's considered dangerous but the pilots are aware of the risks.
This was the first crash at it involving spectator deaths, but the 18th pilot death since '72.

Discodog

A number of airshow accidents happen every year but there are a great number of airshows.

This one sounds expensive:

April 26 – Spirit of Flight 2008 Air Show (Galveston, Texas) – A Supermarine Spitfire taxied into the rear of a recently restored Hawker Hurricane at the Lone Star Flight Museum airshow.

Ouch !