Make Drogheda Toll Free

P. Breathnach

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

Drogheda local road network is forced to contend with significant through traffic diverting from the M1. This mix of through traffic with local traffic happens on a daily bases on our roads within the town. With the recent increase in Toll charges the number of heavy goods vehicles avoiding the tolls is expected to increase and as a result traffic in Drogheda will experience additional congestion.
Keep through traffic on the M1 is the focus and the goal of the Make Drogheda Toll Free campaign.

That is a completely different case from the one you were making earlier. I agree that keeping through traffic out of Drogheda would be good. But if it were achieved by converting the M1 to a local road, it might be a bad bargain.

bryangiggsy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Apart from an arguable case about road junctions, you are in effect conceding that the problem was the mixing of high-speed through traffic with generally slower local traffic.

QUOTE]

I am doing no such thing. Deaths happened as a result of dangerous driving (speeding) on a dangerous road with no differentiation between through and local traffic. The mixing of these 2 forms of traffic did not cause those deaths.

P. Breathnach

bryangiggsy wrote: »

I am doing no such thing. Deaths happened as a result of dangerous driving (speeding) on a dangerous road with no differentiation between through and local traffic. The mixing of these 2 forms of traffic did not cause those deaths.

Almost every road accident involves some degree of driver culpability. Road design and management needs to take account of drivers' behaviour, including bad driving. Separating through traffic from local traffic is one of the more effective strategies.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

P. Breathnach wrote: »

It's pretty well an axiom of motorway design that measures be taken to discourage local traffic using it, and it's a safety measure. It can be achieved by the location of access and exit junctions, or by tolls, or by other means.

This is a misnomer that TOLLS are in someway a safety feature in fact our daily through traffic experience in Drogheda would argue against this hypostases when discussing the Donore Road ramp TOLL.

positron

Just to look at this issue at a slightly different angle, was there not a mention of some sort of multiple automated "mini-tolls" for the M50, so that everyone who uses M50 (not just those who go from N3 exit to N4 exit) will end up paying toll, depending on how much of the M50 they use? Is there any such plan on motion for M1? For instance 10c toll for every 5 miles or something like that perhaps? If something like that is in the works, that probably would be the most natural solution to the situation, imho!

MugMugs

positron wrote: »

Just to look at this issue at a slightly different angle, was there not a mention of some sort of multiple automated "mini-tolls" for the M50, so that everyone who uses M50 (not just those who go from N3 exit to N4 exit) will end up paying toll, depending on how much of the M50 they use? Is there any such plan on motion for M1? For instance 10c toll for every 5 miles or something like that perhaps? If something like that is in the works, that probably would be the most natural solution to the situation, imho!

And cram the N2 with traffic ?

Atomic Pineapple

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

Avoiding the Donore Road TOLLS is not a choice for many people but necessity.
I have previously posted the following and I feel that it addresses your question.

‘I would present the following circumstances.

When applicants apply for social housing to Drogheda Borough Council they may end up being housed in Tullyallen. With this in mind, the ramp Tolls on the Donore Road prevents regular 2 journey trips to the far side and force families to divert down Mell over the Bridge of Peace and up the Rathmullen Road when visiting their extended family, GP, schools, and swimming pool in the Rathmullen area.
There are many other such cases and circumstances that impact negatively due to the Donore Road TOLL’.

So its a inconvenience rather than a necessity in reality.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

draffodx wrote: »

So its a inconvenience rather than a necessity in reality.

In the example which I illustrated of people who have moved to social housing in Tullyallen, they can not choose to continuously use tolls due to its cost and this is their reality. The alternative road option has also a cost burden with travel times up to one hour, the inconvenience is rather irrelevant

The use of the alternative road is very time consuming due to traffic congestion, and it prevents regular travel to extended family members, and friends, which is having a detrimental effect on established communities.

Some families, can not afford to use the tolls and the purposed alternative roads with journey times of up to one hour which is not a choice and has resulted in families having to reluctantly change schools, churches, GP’s, sporting facilities. This is the reality of the cost of the Donore Road ramp toll and its true impact on lower income families in our community which makes the “inconvenience” argument inappropriate and not reflective of the situation on the ground.

P. Breathnach

So you are back to advocating that a motorway also be used as a local road?

veryangryman

P. Breathnach wrote: »

So you are back to advocating that a motorway also be used as a local road?

*Cought* Parish pump *Cough* Typical local gombeen politician with no regard for the big picture.

Atomic Pineapple

If they can afford the fuel costs associated with traveling the route you described then they can afford the toll.

You say the alternative route can add 1 hour to the journey time, 1 hour journey time in a car in traffic will cost a lot more than the cost of paying the toll and taking the shorter more efficient route.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

P. Breathnach wrote: »

So you are back to advocating that a motorway also be used as a local road?

As I confirmed previous the M1 is in daily use by local traffic at Dundalk and Dunleer free of any TOLL.
The people of this area are seeking to have equal treatment with other towns and villages along the M1 and allowed to have the same access and egress free of a local charge when entering the main artery road to our Town.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

veryangryman wrote: »

*Cought* Parish pump *Cough* Typical local gombeen politician with no regard for the big picture.

The big picture includes the percentage of people who are experiencing financial difficulties who are unable to afford the tolls or the additional petrol costs.

Not 100% sure where I stand on this issue, though if I had to choose a side, I'd most likely be against your notion entirely, Ken.

That said, I must say, fair play to you for coming back to boards repeatedly and trying to keep a level head and argue your point. You haven't had an easy time on here, and you're certainly not obliged to post here, so hat's off to you in that regard.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

draffodx wrote: »

If they can afford the fuel costs associated with traveling the route you described then they can afford the toll.

You say the alternative route can add 1 hour to the journey time, 1 hour journey time in a car in traffic will cost a lot more than the cost of paying the toll and taking the shorter more efficient route.

What I am saying is that families are reluctantly change schools, churches, GP’s, sporting facilities as they can not afford the TOLLS or the additional petrol costs. This is the reality of the cost of the Donore Road ramp toll.

positron

Deleted User wrote: »

That said, I must say, fair play to you for coming back to boards repeatedly and trying to keep a level head and argue your point. You haven't had an easy time on here, and you're certainly not obliged to post here, so hat's off to you in that regard.

I was thinking the same. Internet can be a hard place to stand up and to argue a point, especially when you are giving up your anonymity, and literally anyone can argue or ridicule you and safe behind their anonymous identity. Fair play.

hucklebuck

digitaldarragh wrote: »

Please add your signature to the petition at www.makedroghedatollfree.com to call for the removal of the toll on the ramps leading to the Donore Road.

What about the people who want to go to Clonsilla from Lucan and have to pay a €2 charge if tag registered or €3 if unregistered. Take the other roads like everyone else!!

So you commute to Dublin from Drogheda and you are worried about congestion? Ever hear of the Enterprise? :rolleyes:

hucklebuck

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

The people of this area are seeking to have equal treatment with other towns and villages along the M1 and allowed to have the same access and egress free of a local charge when entering the main artery road to our Town.

If I want to go from Blanchardstown to Lucan I go the backroads through Clonsilla not the toll road.

Using your rationnel, there should be no toll to go from A to B at any part of a motorway. How do you propose the motorways are maintained or built?

locum-motion

I love the fact that when Ken is asked to justify his "Make Drogheda toll free" campaign, he always brings up how inconvenient and/or expensive the toll is for people who live in a village 7km outside the town.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

In the example which I illustrated of people who have moved to social housing in Tullyallen, they can not choose to continuously use tolls due to its cost and this is their reality. The alternative road option has also a cost burden with travel times up to one hour, the inconvenience is rather irrelevant

The use of the alternative road is very time consuming due to traffic congestion, and it prevents regular travel to extended family members, and friends, which is having a detrimental effect on established communities.

Some families, can not afford to use the tolls and the purposed alternative roads with journey times of up to one hour which is not a choice and has resulted in families having to reluctantly change schools, churches, GP’s, sporting facilities. This is the reality of the cost of the Donore Road ramp toll and its true impact on lower income families in our community which makes the “inconvenience” argument inappropriate and not reflective of the situation on the ground.

positron

locum-motion wrote: »

I love the fact that when Ken is asked to justify his "Make Drogheda toll free" campaign, he always brings up how inconvenient and/or expensive the toll is for people who live in a village 7km outside the town.

I hate to take sides here (and my interest is that toll free M1 travel to Dublin is attractive to me, that's all), and apologies for saying this but this comment from you means nothing unfortunately. Him mentioning inconvenience / expense of the toll for people who live outside Drogheda does not mean only they are the ones inconvenienced. It's more like they too, along with rest of the people who want to enter M1 from Drogheda - all stand to benefit from such a move.

As with the company providing M1 and maintenance etc, does anyone know how much money or percentage income they would lose by making the change suggested here? It might not be as big as it sounds, as I would imagine vast majority of Drogheda commuters are currently exiting using J7, so it's money they are not seeing even today.

The most benefit of this would be to anyone who want to come do Drogheda-M1-Dublin, and of course the Julianstown residents, as we all know Julianstown traffic hasn't reduced (I think it has gone up many fold) since M1 opened.

P. Breathnach

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

As I confirmed previous the M1 is in daily use by local traffic at Dundalk and Dunleer free of any TOLL.

Asserted is not the same as confirmed.

hucklebuck

positron wrote: »

As with the company providing M1 and maintenance etc, does anyone know how much money or percentage income they would lose by making the change suggested here? It might not be as big as it sounds, as I would imagine vast majority of Drogheda commuters are currently exiting using J7, so it's money they are not seeing even today.

At the end of the day they are private company and profit is profit, the big problem is stupid Fine Fail sold the roads to these private companies and as such all they want is bigger profits.

Even if it was government run then removing the tolls from the slip road would increase traffic into these areas and you would also have frugal sorts going up one side and down the other to avoid the toll on the M1.

bryangiggsy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Asserted is not the same as confirmed.

You really do love going off topic.

Breathnach have you added your signature to the petition at www.makedroghedatollfree.com?

Do you think it fair that Drogheda is the only town along the M1 that is unfairly penalised with this toll?

What do you think is the best solution for the M1 and the future of tolling along it?

P. Breathnach

bryangiggsy wrote: »

You really do love going off topic.

So challenging a claim made by somebody in support of his position is going off-topic, is it?

Breathnach have you added your signature to the petition at www.makedroghedatollfree.com?

You can make make a reasonable guess at the answer to that.

Do you think it fair that Drogheda is the only town along the M1 that is unfairly penalised with this toll?

Do I think unfairness (as you judge it) is fair? You do know how to create a loaded question.

It is something of an accident that the Drogheda bypass is tolled and other sections of the M1 are not. It arose because that section of the road was financed by a PPP. I think it fair that I pay a toll for the convenience of avoiding the bottleneck that existed in Drogheda. I would think it unfair if a specified group of people got off scot-free.

What do you think is the best solution for the M1 and the future of tolling along it?

1. I believe strongly in keeping local traffic off motorways. It's an important safety issue.
2. I do not think, because of the state of the public finances, that buying out the tolling rights is a feasible option.
3. While the idea of tolling along the length of the road has merit, it might be difficult to introduce such a system now, given that a PPP holds a contract for a particular section of the road. It is imaginable that a deal might be cut with them, and it would certainly be worth initiating discussions to explore that possibility.
4. Drogheda needs a traffic management plan that makes it less appealing as an alternative route between the north and Dublin. That might include restrictions on HGVs in the town.

southlouth type

hucklebuck wrote: »

What about the people who want to go to Clonsilla from Lucan and have to pay a €2 charge if tag registered or €3 if unregistered. Take the other roads like everyone else!!

So you commute to Dublin from Drogheda and you are worried about congestion? Ever hear of the Enterprise? :rolleyes:

So by your argument if the people in clonsilla have to put up with it then so should the people in Drogheda You obviously dont have to use the toll here so why bother with a stupid comment , and what has the enterprise got to do with anything ?

CMpunked

southlouth type wrote: »

You obviously dont have to use the toll here so why bother with a stupid comment , and what has the enterprise got to do with anything ?

The enterprise is the express train that runs between dublin-drogheda-dundalk and newry/belfast.

positron

hucklebuck wrote: »

Even if it was government run then removing the tolls from the slip road would increase traffic into these areas and you would also have frugal sorts going up one side and down the other to avoid the toll on the M1.

This is a fair point. I wonder if there's a way to thwart this?

borderlinemeath

positron wrote: »

This is a fair point. I wonder if there's a way to thwart this?

The main bridge does this. The last exit before the main toll bridge is Julianstown, then there's the main toll bridge. Then you come to the Donore exit where the ramp toll is on the exit. There's no avoidance, just another jaunt through the town from Julianstown to the Donore Rd.

It's the same going southbound, if the ramp toll was taken away for Drogheda users the "avoiders" would still have to travel through Drogheda - either down the Donore Rd to the Bus Station or down to Duleek and across. Either way they still have to travel through/around the town to avoid paying.

In short the only people who benefit are people who are in Drogheda or travelling into or out of Drogheda. There's still a conveluted trip to be done by people avoiding the toll and are of no benefit to the town.

southlouth type

CMpunked wrote: »

The enterprise is the express train that runs between dublin-drogheda-dundalk and newry/belfast.

No **** sherlock what has that got to do with this thread and people who " have " to drive to Dublin ?

prettygurrly

yeah i think if i lived in julianstown i would be marching against those tolled exits. if they weren't there I would definitely use J8 instead of J7 when on my way home from wicklow so wouldn't be driving through the tiny village. the road gets eaten up with all the cars and trucks and there is a safety issue too. people constantly trying to overtake slower cars (or those just going at the speed limit) cos they slept in. There aren't many safe places to overtake on the road from drogheda to J7. Not to mind all the tractors etc that use the road too. It doesn't make any sense to keep the tolls on the slip roads.