Make Drogheda Toll Free

digitaldarragh

Again, you don’t answer.
I think you’ve just proven my point yet again. Thanks.

You say I have a skewed view. You may be right. In fact, let’s give you that one. Yes, I have a skewed view. However, I reiterate the point I made earlier, having a skewed view or a tie to a person does not invalidate or diminish in any way the facts of their achievements. I challenge you again to respond with accounts of what you have done to benefit the people of Drogheda. Instead of weakly attempting to spread negativity you may find it more rewarding to have a positive impact for a change?

Mr_Hat

digitaldarragh wrote: »

Again, you don’t answer.
I think you’ve just proven my point yet again. Thanks.

You say I have a skewed view. You may be right. In fact, let’s give you that one. Yes, I have a skewed view. However, I reiterate the point I made earlier, having a skewed view or a tie to a person does not invalidate or diminish in any way the facts of their achievements. I challenge you again to respond with accounts of what you have done to benefit the people of Drogheda. Instead of weakly attempting to spread negativity you may find it more rewarding to have a positive impact for a change?

I dont rate any of your Dad's supposed achievements.
I'am looking forward to seeing your responce to CmPunkeds post.

digitaldarragh

CMpunked, I respect your views. I think you’re being very balanced in your message however I want to be careful to keep this on topic. I am not here to defend Cllr Ó Héiligh. I am here to make people aware of www.MakeDroghedaTollFree.com however as I appreciate the time that you have taken to respond, I will attempt to address one of the comments you made in your message.

Let me draw your attention to the last time I read something in the media about the skate board facilities that were aimed for Drogheda.
http://www.drogheda-independent.ie/news/skateboard-park-a-bridge-over-troubled-waters-1601757.html

I can’t and won’t be a spokes person for Cllr Ó Héiligh however I will say that his proposals as reported in this article were taken completely out of context and I know that this was a source of a lot of frustration. You will also notice in this article that funding was withdrawn from that project so I can only surmise that he felt that no further progress could be made. However, that said, I cannot say this with any certainty. Again, I am not here to defend him. I am here to spread awareness of the petition against the tolls. I just thought it was worth mentioning that I know from firsthand experience that he campaigned for this facility for a long time. I suggest that you attempt to contact him for verification as to his reasons behind his alleged change in focus. If you have difficulties with this please do not hesitate to contact me privately and I will attempt to assist if possible.

In relation to representations that were not handled to the satisfaction of the individual involved I share your frustrations. To be clear, I am not referring to any representations made to Cllr Ó Héiligh as I have not had need to do this however I am very familiar with the processes of constituent representations and the challenges involved from the constituent, local representative and Oireachtas Member perspective. It is a reality that not every representation is resolved to the satisfaction of either party and often due to a lack of transparency it generally seems like this is as a result of a lack of effort or ability on the part of the representative. However, in any process defined with the roles of requester and actioner this misperception is unfortunately all too frequent.

CMpunked

Thats all fair and partially understandable. I do know of the situation surrounding the funding of the skatepark but my point was the fact that he seemed to cut some, maybe not all, ties with some individuals who were and still are fighting for the cause.
I dont want to drag the thread off topic concerning the tolls of the town.
Mainly as i am still a provisional driver and have never used the tolls anywhere so i cant comment as such.

However:

digitaldarragh wrote: »

I am not here to defend Cllr Ó Héiligh.

I can’t and won’t be a spokesperson for Cllr Ó Héiligh.

Again, I am not here to defend him. I am here to spread awareness of the petition against the tolls.

You say this three times within your response and where i do respect you offering your assistance in helping out the situations i have mentioned, i must say that if you are adamant about not being a spokesperson/defender then you arent really giving off that sense going from your previous posts.

PinkFly

As a resdient of ashfield i can say he has done alot for us, ive seen him helping my neighbours unfreeze their pipes during the winter he didnt have to,

anyways i thought this thread was about making drogheda toll free? not bashing a singular man??

Kaylee

There is no new bridge going to be built as a local route for East Drogheda.

I don't know anything about Cllr O'Heiligh.

For people who live in Mell (where traffic is only going to get worse when the new primary school opens); people who use the Canal area as the beautiful amenity it should be; and people who are trying to get to work, the toll on the slip road at Donore should be lifted.

Development seemed/seems to be rampant on the outskirts of Drogheda with no understanding of the impact on traffic levels.

Those here defending the Toll seem to have other issues and don't need to use the roads affected at all.

EI8GHB

Mr_Hat,

You still haven't answered my question either as to why you claimed Portlaoise had a toll on one of its main entrances/exits when it clearly doesn't.

Darragh, for what it's worth I think your father is a good local representative. I know lots of people who he's helped.

I'd love to see Mr_Hat and some of Ken's other detractors stand before the electorate . . .

bigneacy

EI8GHB wrote: »

I will sign your petition Darragh.

As a daily commuter to Dundalk living on Donore Road I am faced with three options in the mornings:

1) Pay €1.80 and get onto the M1 quickly and get to work on time.
2) Use the Oldbridge Road under the M1 and along the canal which (a) is not suitable for heavy volumes of traffic and (b) adds perhaps 6 or 7 minutes to the journey or
3) Go into Drogheda and up George's Street or Mell and onto the M1 that way, adding, depending on traffic levels, 15 or 20 mins to the journey.

I nearly always choose (1), except when I'm broke, but it galls me having to pay it.

I do not object to motorway tolls necessarily. I follow one argument which says the infrastructure has to be paid for somehow, but I also see the merits of the argument that says it is another form of taxation.

But the Donore Road toll always beat the hell out of me. Why toll an entry or an exit to the town? And it's not about getting to Auntie Mary's house or anything like that. If you live in Drogheda and commute to Dublin (or even Dundalk in my case) you either pay the toll and get there quicker, or you choose a free journey which will take longer, and add to congestion in other parts of the town.

But these were your options before the motorway was opened. Basically you have the same options you ALWAYS had, plus another (quick) option that you have to pay for.

That's your choice. The M1 motorway and the Donore road interchange was not built for the convenience of Drogheda residents.

It's not like you had this road for years and then they suddenly started a toll plaza.

EI8GHB

I think it's interesting that people have this opinion that motorways were built purely for intercity travel, or only for the convenience of distance travellers. But the fact is that a number of motorways have seen disappointing levels of traffic because motorists are avoiding using them. That route bypassing Fermoy mentioned by Mr_Hat is being boycotted with 6,000 vehicles a day still passing through that village. Not to mention Julianstown. And the M3 which has seen low traffic numbers. Also I travelled on the M7 recently and noticed hardly any traffic on it for 20 miles south of the main toll plaza beyond Portlaoise.

If they don't want local traffic using the motorway, they should say so. But I don't believe this is the reason the Donore Road toll booths were put there.

Anyway, bigneacy, you are right. I do have choices, and the M1 is a relatively new choice. I choose to pay, but dislike having to. If Ken O'Heiligh succeeds in his campaign, I for one will be very glad of it, as will many others.

It seems there are lots of people out there who, despite the recession, seem perfectly happy to pay tolls . . . good luck to them!!

Lord TSC

I'm not going to comment on the Counciller guy (though I think the revelation that he's a poster's dad completly blows that poster's opinion out of the water, regardless of his arguement's legitamacy), and I'm afraid I'd be speaking out of ignorance on this but surely the toll is nessecary to recoup some of the money which went into building it? We can't expect a road like that and want all the benefits but then complain when we're asked to contribute towards it (though, hey, this is Ireland we're talking about...).

bigneacy

So I read this forum. All the replies etc... Drogheda residents are having to pay €1.80 to bypass the town centre (on a road which wasn't there in the first place - they didn't demolish the old roads you know?!)

Can anyone tell me (apart from the above non-reason) any reason why the Donore road toll is a bad thing for Drogheda?

munchkin_utd

bigneacy wrote: »

So I read this forum. All the replies etc... Drogheda residents are having to pay €1.80 to bypass the town centre (on a road which wasn't there in the first place - they didn't demolish the old roads you know?!)

Can anyone tell me (apart from the above non-reason) any reason why the Donore road toll is a bad thing for Drogheda?

I just had a quick gawk on google streetview and the Donore road seems to be crazy busy at it is.
Could that road actually take all the substantially extra traffic from "toll dodgers" if there was no toll?

Regarding the reason why there is a toll.
The franchise company built a 20km long motorway at the cost to them of 100s of millions of euros. They also have to maintain this for 30 years. Thats keep the surface tip top, general maintance of bridges etc, snow clearing. Everything.
To pay for all that, they charge a toll to use this privately built road.

Theres a contract signed between the government and the franchise company on what they deliver and what is tolled.
At this point in time, a change of the extent of the toll would require the government to get the franchisee to agree to a change in the contract for which they would have to be compensated.

And THAT is the crux of the matter - Who will pay this compensation of millions of euros for lost revenues over the next 30 odd years?

If you can tell me where this magic pot of cash is to come from (in a bankrupt country depending on IMF loans to pay the bills) then fair play to you!!

Mr_Hat

PinkFly wrote: »

anyways i thought this thread was about making drogheda toll free? not bashing a singular man??

Well the petition your being asked to sign is going to be used by O'Heirly and his son is the OP. So I think he's fair game..

Mr_Hat

EI8GHB wrote: »

Not to mention Julianstown. And

Sorry Eirgi, I knew there was one on the south side of Portlaosie so I assumed that there would be one north of it. Hands up I was wrong.

I'm pretty sure those cars were always traveling trough Julianstown along with a hell of a lot more

EI8GHB

I am going to let this be the last comment because I think I've contributed enough to this discussion. I will continue to pay the toll because (a) I still have a job thankfully and I can afford to and (b) the alternatives are really not palatable, or practical to be honest. If the campaign succeeds, I will be a very happy man. Best of luck to Ken and hopefully more people will join his campaign.

borderlinemeath

As a Drogheda resident I have no problem paying the toll if I'm using the motorway, heading north to Dundalk or south to Dublin. Neither a considerable distance but worth the price of the toll to shorten the journey.

However, to use the motorway to circumnavigate the town and having to pay the toll is beyond ridiculous. While the schools are closed the traffic congestion is not that bad but come school term time the residents of Drogheda are once more held to ransom to get from A to B.

While I don't think the toll should be scrapped for "toll dodgers" I do think there should be a waiver/discount scheme/tax break for residents of the town.

Mr_Hat

digitaldarragh wrote: »

Again, you don’t answer.
I think you’ve just proven my point yet again. Thanks.

You say I have a skewed view. You may be right. In fact, let’s give you that one. Yes, I have a skewed view. However, I reiterate the point I made earlier, having a skewed view or a tie to a person does not invalidate or diminish in any way the facts of their achievements.

Well I'm pretty sure having a skewed view means by definition that you have a distorted view of your dads "achievements". I hope your not being groomed as his successor.

digitaldarragh

Ah Mr_Hat. You are either a very funny man or a very misguided one.

Am I being groomed? I taught him everything he knows! J

As I said at the start of this thread, your obviously here just to attempt to cause controversy, start agreements or simply be disagreeable. In the subsequent posts from you it would seem that I’m correct.

Good talking to you.
Have a fantastic weekend.

bigneacy

digitaldarragh wrote: »

Ah Mr_Hat. You are either a very funny man or a very misguided one.
Am I being groomed? I taught him everything he knows! As I said at the start of this thread, your obviously here just to attempt to cause controversy, start agreements or simply be disagre
Good talking to you.
Have a fantastic weekend.

You can't say he's only here to cause controversy just because he has a differing point of view than you...?

Also - being a non-resident of Drogheda - I have to say, the town centre traffic was always terrible - It used to take 2.5 hours to get to Dublin from Dundalk (about 45 mins of that was Drogheda traffic) since the introduction of the motorway, I personally think the traffic has somewhat lessened. I mean imagine what it would be like today without the Motorway.

Also - It would be foolish of any local councillors to assume that they are going to sucessfully petition a private company, who have a lucrative contract, to stop doing business. CRG won't just remove their business interest because of a small scale online petition.

That'd be like petitioning McDonalds to close down because you feel it cheapens the town's image, I also think you and the councillor mentioned previously know this full well and this is probably (as someone else already said) a points-scoring, profile raising populist stunt.

There could be other, more realistic things that the Cllr. could focus his energies on. Things that are actually going to happen and bring results for his constituents.

PinkFly

Mr_Hat wrote: »

Well the petition your being asked to sign is going to be used by O'Heirly and his son is the OP. So I think he's fair game..

Its O'Heiligh.

K nacker

PinkFly wrote: »

Its O'Heiligh.

He was happy to be called Healy before he got into mainstream politics :cool:

borderlinemeath

bigneacy wrote: »

Also - being a non-resident of Drogheda - I have to say, the town centre traffic was always terrible - It used to take 2.5 hours to get to Dublin from Dundalk (about 45 mins of that was Drogheda traffic) since the introduction of the motorway, I personally think the traffic has somewhat lessened. I mean imagine what it would be like today without the Motorway.

Being a non resident of Drogheda you seem to not sympathise with Drogheda residents and take a fairly businesslike view of the issue.

If the proposals to toll the motorway at Dundalk goes ahead then you may change your views if it effects you directly. And it's purely a revenue raising toll getting retrofitted rather than a cost that is directly linked to a road building contract.

Nobody likes paying the toll but as I have stated, if I'm using a decent stretch of the road I haven't got much of an issue. Paying to get from one end of the town to the other is just ridiculous.

digitaldarragh

bigneacy,
I say that MR_Hat is just here to cause controversy not because he has a differing view point. I respect everyone’s opinion as I have demonstrated in other responses on this and other threads. The basis for my claimed is the manner in which he launches personal attacks on a resident of Drogheda who in my "Skewed" opinion attempts to serve the community in the best way he knows how. Mr_Hat avoids answering questions and complains about points without providing valid justification or accurate facts. It has been said that my views are skewed. I say this in what I hope will be my final response to this thread; I will accept that my opinion of Ken is likely skewed. It would be unrealistic to attempt to say otherwise. However the facts regarding the work that he does for the people who need it most are undisputable regardless.

Your attention is drawn to:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74020594
"I honestly cant see how he gets elected year after year. He's a bit useless and all we ever hear out of him is nonsense bout getting rid of the toll. Fat chance!!"
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056367945&page=2
"No, your completely right. I think he is useless and the no tolls campain is just populist nonsense he is using to raise his profile. If the toll is ever abolished I can assure you. It wont be as a result of his involvement. "

Once again, I would encourage those who agree with this campaign to sign the petition at www.makedroghedatollfree.com

K nacker, to be clear, He has used the Ó Héiligh name for thirty years now. Although, I don't see the relevance to the topic of tolls.

Mr_Hat

Ok just to be clear I did send DD a pm apoligising to him if he felt that I was making a personal attack against his dad and not against his style of politics. Which I'm sure to everyone else it is. I', dissapointed that your are still taking the critiscms personally.

I'm still a little unsure what questions you want answered and I have apologised for the one fact which proved to be inaccurate.

I'm not quite sure what the relevance of posting of my privious commenst are. Aside from showing my distain for his style of politics.

And the change of name is completely relevant and another example of populist politics.

I ask everyone to refrain from signing the petition and refusing to vote for Healy in the next election as a show against his unrealistic populist politics

bigneacy

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Being a non resident of Drogheda you seem to not sympathise with Drogheda residents and take a fairly businesslike view of the issue.

If the proposals to toll the motorway at Dundalk goes ahead then you may change your views if it effects you directly. And it's purely a revenue raising toll getting retrofitted rather than a cost that is directly linked to a road building contract.

You're correct - if they put the toll on the M1 around Dundalk also, i'll be a tad put out. I some times use the motorway from J17-J18 to get past the town - but I would just get on with it and use a different route.

I think I would much rather see them using toll roads to raise much needed revenue than putting more stealth taxes on low incomes and increasing corporation tax.

People who are driving about on the motorway, paying the toll have reason enough to do so, 99.9% of them aren't the lowest of the low - living hand to mouth wondering where their next meal is coming from so an extra €1.80 from their pocket to help fix this broken country is far more welcome than yet another tax on the working class, and that's honestly the way I feel about that matter.

The M1 CRG toll was awarded to them fair and square and they do a fantastic job of maintaining the motorway, it has to be said.

Nobody likes paying the toll but as I have stated, if I'm using a decent stretch of the road I haven't got much of an issue. Paying to get from one end of the town to the other is just ridiculous.

It's not paying to get from one end of the town to the other - as I already said the existing roads are still there, they haven't been torn up to force everyone into using the toll - you are paying for the privelege of using a quick, nice, open, uncongested, clean and relatively safe stretch of road.

digitaldarragh wrote: »

*Long comment previous*

In fairness, I think you have also avoided your fair share of questions ITT?

Lord TSC

digitaldaarragh, may I ask why you seem to put some of your posts in a higher font size. This isn't getting personal or anything, I'm just curious is it something that's happening by accident or do you think it makes your arguement stronger?

Also, is there any chance of getting a response to the issue of "The toll is needed to pay for the lovely new ammenities provided"?

K nacker

Darragh,
I know and like your dad, but I don’t have to agree with what he does and how he does it. I’m just not a fan of his frank Godfrey populist style self promoting politics. If he’s not pictured standing beside a pothole, it’s a dumped mattress, a wheelie bin ECT.

I think it was a mistake to reveal who you are, all things taken into account. Don’t take posts too seriously, life’s too short

Enjoy the weekend all

digitaldarragh

Teamshadowclan, Apologies. I wasn’t aware of the font differences. I’m not able to tell the difference with the system I am currently using. There was no hidden agenda.

bigneacy

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Also, is there any chance of getting a response to the issue of "The toll is needed to pay for the lovely new ammenities provided"?

digitaldarragh wrote: »

Teamshadowclan, Apologies. I wasn’t aware of the font differences. I’m not able to tell the difference with the system I am currently using. There was no hidden agenda.

*Ignoring the question*

Apparently not.

borderlinemeath

bigneacy wrote: »

It's not paying to get from one end of the town to the other - as I already said the existing roads are still there, they haven't been torn up to force everyone into using the toll - you are paying for the privelege of using a quick, nice, open, uncongested, clean and relatively safe stretch of road.

While the congestion in Drogheda has improved, it shouldn't be congested at all but town planners seem to have another agenda. Have a read of the thread about the amount of traffic lights through the town on the existing roads!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056286668

Try using the existing roads at rush hour in the morning when little darlings are being dropped off to school or the Dublin Road each way for the past few days while the Marsh Rd was closed? Poorhouse lane was also closed for months due to a wall that the HSE were responsible for collapsed and they dragged out fixing it for months on end.

At least Dundalk has the bypass down by the coes road, plenty of roundabouts and freeflowing traffic. Something Drogheda is severly lacking.