Make Drogheda Toll Free

K nacker

bigneacy wrote: »

?!

The two retail parks are doing fantastically well, as are the Motor dealers and IDA park and industrial units. This is all despite the "crippling" toll booths.

Bigneacy,

I would like to see the P&L spread sheets you have to back this up. The facts are,and from presonal experance I can only speak about The Drogheda Retail Park (the Retail Park most effected by the ramp toll). Boyne valley Opel gone, sofa company gone, Petmania gone. purpose built Quick Fit centre won't even open. Arond the corner Town & Country moved to Duleek, Bathroom centre gone, home image(might have the name wrong) it was the one at the corner of the donore Ind. Est. gone.

Donore Ind Est is a disaster zone, too mary gone to mention.

Now please trust me on this, I know all the cars dealers and they are all struggling big time, despite the short windfall that was the Gov scrappage scheme , little or no profit margin for the car dealer on scrappage deals.

The IDA park is also empty except for the financal CALL centre which is irrelevant because they do not have or need customer footfall.

Forgive me if I have lelt out other closed businesses , which i'm sure I have.

bigneacy

Of course I don't have P&L sheets to back it up, don't be ridiculous! But you are right, businesses closing down is unique to Drogheda and is solely the direct result of the Donore road, M1 toll.

It's the obvious answer; that's why Car dealers and overpriced pet stores are thriving in every other part of the country and not in Drogheda. I mean, who is going to pay a €1.80 toll when going to look at a brand new opel for €30,000? Nobody, apparently.

K nacker

bigneacy wrote: »

Of course I don't have P&L sheets to back it up, don't be ridiculous! But you are right, businesses closing down is unique to Drogheda and is solely the direct result of the Donore road, M1 toll.

It's the obvious answer; that's why Car dealers and overpriced pet stores are thriving in every other part of the country and not in Drogheda. I mean, who is going to pay a €1.80 toll when going to look at a brand new opel for €30,000? Nobody, apparently.

Ah no need to get your Knickers in a twist there bigneacy, read my post again and you will see that I was committing specifically on the Drogheda Retail park and surrounding area(the Retail Park most effected by the ramp toll).

I never said or imployed that businesses closing down is unique to Drogheda and is solely the direct result of the Donore road M1 toll. What I am saying is that removing the ramp toll at that enterance can only be good for business there.

Check out both retail car parks M1 Retail Park usually full, Drogheda Retail Park usually 80% empty

PS. Don't forget you would also have to pay €1.80 toll to drive the €30,000 Opel home or the tin of paint from Homebase .

veryangryman

K nacker wrote: »

bigneacy wrote: »

Of course I don't have P&L sheets to back it up, don't be ridiculous! But you are right, businesses closing down is unique to Drogheda and is solely the direct result of the Donore road, M1 toll.

It's the obvious answer; that's why Car dealers and overpriced pet stores are thriving in every other part of the country and not in Drogheda. I mean, who is going to pay a €1.80 toll when going to look at a brand new opel for €30,000? Nobody, apparently.

Ah no need to get your Knickers in a twist there bigneacy, read my post again and you will see that I was committing specifically on the Drogheda Retail park and surrounding area(the Retail Park most effected by the ramp toll).

I never said or imployed that businesses closing down is unique to Drogheda and is solely the direct result of the Donore road M1 toll. What I am saying is that removing the ramp toll at that enterance can only be good for business there.

Check out both retail car parks M1 Retail Park usually full, Drogheda retail park usually 80% empty

PS. Don't forget you would also have to pay €1.80 toll to drive the €30,000 Opel home.

I actually used to be in favour of moving the toll somewhere else along M1 but after hearing the vested interest in this thread have decided to write to euro link to double the charge. Hopefully thatl learn them. OH god if I see one more family in politics ill go mad

Scotty #

K nacker wrote: »

I would like to see the P&L spread sheets you have to back this up. The facts are,and from presonal experance I can only speak about The Drogheda Retail Park (the Retail Park most effected by the ramp toll). Boyne valley Opel gone, sofa company gone, Petmania gone. purpose built Quick Fit centre won't even open.

...and yet I couldn't get a parking space in that enormous car park on Sunday Saturday afternoon last. I had to park in the smaller car park at the side of Harvey Normans. Go figure...

Abolishing the toll will do little or nothing for local business. Those stores you mentioned that have closed would not have been saved by abolishing the toll charge.

If the counsellor wants to help business in the area he should start with the extortionate council rates businesses are being forced to pay. (or does that money pay his wages?)

Edit: It was Saturday now that I think of it. Place was packed!

Lord TSC

K nacker wrote: »

I would like to see the P&L spread sheets you have to back this up. The facts are,and from presonal experance I can only speak about The Drogheda Retail Park (the Retail Park most effected by the ramp toll). Boyne valley Opel gone, sofa company gone, Petmania gone. purpose built Quick Fit centre won't even open. Arond the corner Town & Country moved to Duleek, Bathroom centre gone, home image(might have the name wrong) it was the one at the corner of the donore Ind. Est. gone.

Donore Ind Est is a disaster zone, too mary gone to mention.

Now please trust me on this, I know all the cars dealers and they are all struggling big time, despite the short windfall that was the Gov scrappage scheme , little or no profit margin for the car dealer on scrappage deals.

The IDA park is also empty except for the financal CALL centre which is irrelevant because they do not have or need customer footfall.

Forgive me if I have lelt out other closed businesses , which i'm sure I have.

Presumably if you're willing to attack someone for not backing up their arguement with spreadsheets when they say business is good, you've got the spread sheets to prove business is bad?

From personal experience, the shops that are closing are not closing down because of the toll. There's a vast number of reasons they are closing down and I'd love to see those problems really tackled. But the toll is not a major reason. The major problem is the employment rates are dropping. After that you've got the fact wages are dropping but shop prices aren't. Then you've got that a lot of the shops that are going are ones specialising in overpriced luxury items that can be found cheaper elsewhere. Those are issues I'd love to see addressed, but once again, it's easier to go for the PR-friendly toll bridge than tackle the real reasons Drogheda is slowly dying...

K nacker

Scotty # wrote: »

...and yet I couldn't get a parking space in that enormous car park on Sunday Saturday afternoon last. I had to park in the smaller car park at the side of Harvey Normans. Go figure...

Abolishing the toll will do little or nothing for local business. Those stores you mentioned that have closed would not have been saved by abolishing the toll charge.

If the counsellor wants to help business in the area he should start with the extortionate council rates businesses are being forced to pay. (or does that money pay his wages?)

Edit: It was Saturday now that I think of it. Place was packed!

It's Meath County Council the rates are paid to. they don't pay Kens wages.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Counciller.

While I would welcome the dismissal of the tolls, I have to ask the question again, and I ask it because I presume it would have been the first question asked to you when you proposed this change to the people behind the tolls, but which has been widely ignored by yourself and your son...

Building the road cost money and obviously the tolls are designed to recoup some of that money in order to pay for the benefits brought on my the motorway. If the tolls were abolished on the ramps, how would you propose the money be made up, given this would case a huge loss in revenue? I would imagine (and you're the one with the research in this area, presumably) that when the road was built, a price was given for the road and that it is still being paid back and the money recouped; are you proposing that we should just ignore the fact we owe money for the road or have you an alternative as to how that money could be collected?

Also, can I ask (and I don't mean this smartly; genuinely interested in the answer) did you oppose the introductions of the tolls back when they were first implemented? Did you fight hard back when this was still in the planning stages, development stages, construction stages and the time straight after their completion? (presumably if you did, there's proof and you can offer us examples of your actions).

Or is this really just a recent project started up by you to garner some positive publicity? A project you know will go nowhere (cause truth be told I have no doubt this will fall on deaf ears and the tolls will remain) but will make you look very good to the local people of Drogheda?


EDIT: Just to add...I think what really annoys me about this is you obviously want to get the publicity by going after something thats affecting people's way of life, but in a town like Drogheda, there's far better uses of your time. Drogheda is suffering as a town rife with unemployment and social problems, problems which really deserve a lot more attention than the tolls, but instead of tackling a real problem, you're dealing with what really amounts to an inconvience. If you're doing this cause you believe it will help the town then fine. But there are so many worse problems in the town right now, first and foremost the staggering unemployment rates, that I wonder why you're doing this campaign and not one to tackle genuine problems.

Like you I will welcome the removal of the ramp tolls. But you may not have fully understood the post I made to Locum-Motion, but I did answered the question
I would argue that the Donore Road ramp tolls ability to produce revenue would not exceed the financial losses that our citizens and business have experienced since their arrival. As an elected member representing the citizens and the greater good, it is my commitment to press home a sustainable case on those bases to the powers that be.
During the planning process I would have worked as part of a group submission. I can confirm that my current campaign is running a number of years and when toll charges are increase on new years day I stage a protest to highlight the event.
You presume that this Toll campaign is doomed but on the other hand you would welcome the dismissal of the tolls, I view the tolls as an unnecessary burden on Drogheda and I will work proactively with all parties and none to make this happen.
I continue to work on social issues on a daily bases and much of this work goes unreported, I agree with you that the unemployment rate is staggering and more needs to be done but my view is that we need to address the causes of unemployment and one of these is the ramp Tolls. Coke had a strong base on the Donore Road and we now need to attract a replacement business. This is made more difficult with the Ramp Toll at the top of the road

K nacker

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Presumably if you're willing to attack someone for not backing up their arguement with spreadsheets when they say business is good, you've got the spread sheets to prove business is bad?

From personal experience, the shops that are closing are not closing down because of the toll. There's a vast number of reasons they are closing down and I'd love to see those problems really tackled. But the toll is not a major reason. The major problem is the employment rates are dropping. After that you've got the fact wages are dropping but shop prices aren't. Then you've got that a lot of the shops that are going are ones specialising in overpriced luxury items that can be found cheaper elsewhere. Those are issues I'd love to see addressed, but once again, it's easier to go for the PR-friendly toll bridge than tackle the real reasons Drogheda is slowly dying...

I agree totally. Its not going solve the mess the town is in. but again my point is it can't do that particular retail park any harm only good.

My question is,why do consumers travelling south into town from Dundalk,Ardee, Dunleer, Castlebellingham, Monisterboice etc, or west from Collon, Navan, Slane, etc and the all the villages and townlands therein, have to pay a toll to get into and out of the Drogheda Retail Park. When The M1 retail Park (excuse the pun) is scott free.

Lord TSC

Hmm...

I would argue that the Donore Road ramp tolls ability to produce revenue would not exceed the financial losses that our citizens and business have experienced since their arrival. As an elected member representing the citizens and the greater good, it is my commitment to press home a sustainable case on those bases to the powers that be.

That's great. But I don't think that's how life works. We don't get to say one person takes a hit so another can gain a profit. And who decides "The Greater Good". I always hate that term cause it's so easy for everyone to have their own definition of what the "greater good" is.

Let me just get this straight. The point you're making is that it doesn't matter if one business gets hurt because others will benefit. Well, that's great! Who cares if one business loses loads of revenue, and thus possibly the ability to pay people for the work they've done. Others will benefit. So who gets to decide which businesses deserve to profit and which get to have a revenue source stripped away.
And tell me, if I go into town and steal food from Dunnes Stores, can I tell the judge it's ok because the financial lose of the big, bad shop is balanced by the financial gain of me personally and it's all for "the greater good". Robin Hood may be a great story but the reality is you can't do that.

You presume that this Toll campaign is doomed but on the other hand you would welcome the dismissal of the tolls, I view the tolls as an unnecessary burden on Drogheda and I will work proactively with all parties and none to make this happen.

One can wish for things but accept the reality of situations. I would love to see the tolls gone. I'd love for free education, private health care for free. I'd love a massively paying job in the education sector which isn't being destroyed by public sector cuts. I'd love may things that would be far more convienant to my daily life. But I don't live in a dream world.

I continue to work on social issues on a daily bases and much of this work goes unreported, I agree with you that the unemployment rate is staggering and more needs to be done but my view is that we need to address the causes of unemployment and one of these is the ramp Tolls. Coke had a strong base on the Donore Road and we now need to attract a replacement business. This is made more difficult with the Ramp Toll at the top of the road

Oh. My. God.
Did you SERIOUSLY just blame unemployment on the toll ramps? Seriously? I think that on the list of reasons unemployment is rife in Drogheda, the toll ramps come right down the bottom. I should not have to say this to a politician but there's an unemployment epidemic in Ireland as a whole, so what rolls do tolls have on the country as a whole? I cannot believe you would dare try and use unemployment to push through your believes on the toll roads.

The reason the businesses are failing in Drogheda is not because some people are being asked to pay a small amount of money to use a road and a particular exit. There are so, so many reasons unemployment is prevelant in Drogheda and in Ireland. Are you suggesting that if the tolls were abolished tomorrow, the unemployment epidemic would suddenly be fixed? It is such a minor factor in the equation.

The retail parks are doing well. Anyone who takes trips to them (as I do regularly) will see the car parks are always full up and there's plenty of people around. If I was to identify areas of town that need the level of help you're trying to offer the retail parks, I'd point at West Street and Scotch Hall, which are shells of their former selfs (and, I'd argue, that's down to the fact the retail parks are so amazing nowadays). Why not go tackle the parking prices around the town or the high rent nessecary to open a shop on what was once the central shopping areas; if you could abolish them, you would do serious good for the town. And, if I'm right, these are local issues which a local politican can do something about, as opposed to the motorways and tolls which are not.

Would the retail parks benefit if the tolls were gone? Sure. But they are not the areas you should be concentrating on. They are not struggling. Other areas are. Areas that are damaged due to reasons that are not the god damn toll.

The truth is the people for whom the tolls are a real problem for are people who are employed and have the "problem" of getting to and from work. The tolls are an inconvience to people who have jobs. The unemployed, like myself, are not affected by the tolls in any tangible way and to try and link unemployment with the tolls is a cheap and dirty trick, deisgned to generate good PR with people who don't think beyond the immediate.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Hmm...



That's great. But I don't think that's how life works. We don't get to say one person takes a hit so another can gain a profit. And who decides "The Greater Good". I always hate that term cause it's so easy for everyone to have their own definition of what the "greater good" is.

Let me just get this straight. The point you're making is that it doesn't matter if one business gets hurt because others will benefit. Well, that's great! Who cares if one business loses loads of revenue, and thus possibly the ability to pay people for the work they've done. Others will benefit. So who gets to decide which businesses deserve to profit and which get to have a revenue source stripped away.
And tell me, if I go into town and steal food from Dunnes Stores, can I tell the judge it's ok because the financial lose of the big, bad shop is balanced by the financial gain of me personally and it's all for "the greater good". Robin Hood may be a great story but the reality is you can't do that.



One can wish for things but accept the reality of situations. I would love to see the tolls gone. I'd love for free education, private health care for free. I'd love a massively paying job in the education sector which isn't being destroyed by public sector cuts. I'd love may things that would be far more convienant to my daily life. But I don't live in a dream world.



Oh. My. God.
Did you SERIOUSLY just blame unemployment on the toll ramps? Seriously? I think that on the list of reasons unemployment is rife in Drogheda, the toll ramps come right down the bottom. I should not have to say this to a politician but there's an unemployment epidemic in Ireland as a whole, so what rolls do tolls have on the country as a whole? I cannot believe you would dare try and use unemployment to push through your believes on the toll roads.

The reason the businesses are failing in Drogheda is not because some people are being asked to pay a small amount of money to use a road and a particular exit. There are so, so many reasons unemployment is prevelant in Drogheda and in Ireland. Are you suggesting that if the tolls were abolished tomorrow, the unemployment epidemic would suddenly be fixed? It is such a minor factor in the equation.

The retail parks are doing well. Anyone who takes trips to them (as I do regularly) will see the car parks are always full up and there's plenty of people around. If I was to identify areas of town that need the level of help you're trying to offer the retail parks, I'd point at West Street and Scotch Hall, which are shells of their former selfs (and, I'd argue, that's down to the fact the retail parks are so amazing nowadays). Why not go tackle the parking prices around the town or the high rent nessecary to open a shop on what was once the central shopping areas; if you could abolish them, you would do serious good for the town. And, if I'm right, these are local issues which a local politican can do something about, as opposed to the motorways and tolls which are not.

Would the retail parks benefit if the tolls were gone? Sure. But they are not the areas you should be concentrating on. They are not struggling. Other areas are. Areas that are damaged due to reasons that are not the god damn toll.

The truth is the people for whom the tolls are a real problem for are people who are employed and have the "problem" of getting to and from work. The tolls are an inconvience to people who have jobs. The unemployed, like myself, are not affected by the tolls in any tangible way and to try and link unemployment with the tolls is a cheap and dirty trick, deisgned to generate good PR with people who don't think beyond the immediate.

I would draw you attention to a part of my contribution you may have missed ‘we need to address the causes of unemployment and one of these is the ramp Tolls.

While you are correct to state that the Tolls are a real problem for employed people getting to and from work they equally place a heaven and disproportionate burden on local daily use.

Lord TSC

Ruth85 wrote: »

Thats exactly the problem, people like you teamshadowclan who feel they can judge something without being in the position of needing it... People who work that uses the tolls pay tax and in turn pays your social welfare benefit if they dont get to work they dont get paid and in turn you get no social welfare.... you see you need to get off your arse and stop commenting on this thing and go and get yourself a job you cant be trying very hard if you stay on a computer all day. I know the economy is bad and people are losing there jobs, but you actually have to be trying to get a job to get one. You are complaining about nothing being done in the town, well then why dont you do something about it?

Yes, the reason I am on the internet is because I am not trying to get a job and am a horribly lazy person :rolleyes: By the same logic, the counciller here is doing a poor job cause he's on the internet answering questions on a message board. And you're bad at your job too cause you're sitting at a computer posting on Boards.ie.

Don't you dare think you know me and presume because I post on a message board, I am not looking for a job. That is such a lazy retort, even apart from the fact it's showing you're up your own ass here. I am looking for jobs but as I said, unemployment is a big problem in Drogheda and Ireland to presume that the reason I am on a board is because I'm lazy is shocking, and typical of the sensationalist tripe you get over on the After Hours board.

Ladies and gentlemen, the world according to Ruth85: People are unemployed cause they are lazy and not looking for jobs, and those who are unemployed should not dare comment on matters of their locality.

Tell me Counciller, is this your opinion too? That the unemployed should not get to comment on such matters and should be personally attacked if they do? Cause to be blunt, Ruth here has launched a personal attack to change the subject and discredit the person making a point instead of refuting the point itself.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

I would draw you attention to a part of my contribution you may have missed ‘we need to address the causes of unemployment and one of these is the ramp Tolls.

While you are correct to state that the Tolls are a real problem for employed people getting to and from work they equally place a heaven and disproportionate burden on local daily use.

You're right, they are one cause. One very minor cause which should not be taking up such a huge part of a politician's time when there are far, FAR bigger causes behind unemployment.

Had you said "Getting rid of the tolls would create employment", I'd have agreed. I'd have also said that it would create more employment to focus your time and effort in different areas. But you didn't. You blamed unemployment on the tolls (yes, only in part), when the truth is there are about 15 other factors which rank in importance above tolls. But then you aren't interested in really solving unemployment in Drogheda, cause to do so would mean you'd have to tackle issues that don't result in good PR within the local area.

As for how they are a burden on local use, I agree, but it's been said before that the motorway is not for the convience of a small number of locals who would live one side of the town and want (not need, but want) to get to the otherside. I also agree that they are a burden; a nuisance and an annoyance. But they aren't stopping people. They are not something which is completly halting people from coming and going. There are so many other problems in Drogheda and this is the one you focus on; a nuisance, rather than a serious aspect of trouble in Drogheda.

bigneacy

Councillor, your posts are verging on the ridiculous. I am almost in disbelief that the person writing the posts under the Name Cllr. Ken O Heiligh is an elected representative.

You have ignored countless questions in this thread, you have cherry picked the points you want to argue and leave the 'difficult' questions.

If you honestly believe that this campaign will ever do anything except gather you shallow newspaper headlines you are very sorely mistaken, and also very, very naive. I don't believe you are, I think you are fully aware that no online petition is going to change the lucrative business plans of a private corporation.

Drogheda has prospered exactly on-par with Dundalk in the past decade and declined at a lesser rate than Dundalk in the past 3 years, there is no evidence, anywhere that the M1 toll and Donore road on-ramp toll has had any negative effect on Drogheda's tourism, industry or economy.

If anything the development of two retail parks on the on-off ramps of the M1 is evidence that (possibly) it has, in fact, had a positive effect.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

we need to address the causes of unemployment and one of these is the ramp Tolls. [/COLOR][/I]

Oh my God. Even with your emphasis on "one", that is the most ludicrous thing I'm heard from an elected representative in years.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

bigneacy wrote: »

Councillor, your posts are verging on the ridiculous. I am almost in disbelief that the person writing the posts under the Name Cllr. Ken O Heiligh is an elected representative.

You have ignored countless questions in this thread, you have cherry picked the points you want to argue and leave the 'difficult' questions.

If you honestly believe that this campaign will ever do anything except gather you shallow newspaper headlines you are very sorely mistaken, and also very, very naive. I don't believe you are, I think you are fully aware that no online petition is going to change the lucrative business plans of a private corporation.

Drogheda has prospered exactly on-par with Dundalk in the past decade and declined at a lesser rate than Dundalk in the past 3 years, there is no evidence, anywhere that the M1 toll and Donore road on-ramp toll has had any negative effect on Drogheda's tourism, industry or economy.

If anything the development of two retail parks on the on-off ramps of the M1 is evidence that (possibly) it has, in fact, had a positive effect.

I do not except that there was any difficult questions’ put to me.
It is heartening to read that you hold in height regard elected representatives but don’t make the mistake of underestimating the power of the newspapers. Incidentally radio and TV have covered this news item also.
Again just to clarify this is not just an online petition and yes the Tolls is a very lucrative business but unless we challenge the stats quo the Ramp Toll will remain on the backs of Drogheda citizens until 2034.

To a large degree you should thank the hard pressed motorists of Drogheda for the Toll free Western Bypass around Dundalk.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

As for how they are a burden on local use, I agree, but it's been said before that the motorway is not for the convience of a small number of locals who would live one side of the town and want (not need, but want) to get to the otherside. I also agree that they are a burden; a nuisance and an annoyance. .

Citizens in Drogheda who wish to use the M1 to get from one side of the town to the other, a toll charge is demanded. Whereas all other towns and villages from Dublin to Belfast can use the same M1 for the same type of journey free of any Toll demand.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Lilah Small Pilot wrote: »

Oh my God. Even with your emphasis on "one", that is the most ludicrous thing I'm heard from an elected representative in years.

You possibly need to get out more often

veryangryman

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

You possibly need to get out more often

Seriously, you've been ripped to shreds on this post Cllr. Its actually sad to see the endless childish personal jibes you throw on people. Very unprofessional - i hope your attitude is not typical of your local government.

Please comment on the actual questions raised of you - one of which is what you are going to do in the town streets itself rather than the easy targets of one minor toll near a retail park.

I'll remind you again later on the off-chance you ignore this question again.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

To a large degree you should thank the hard pressed motorists of Drogheda for the Toll free Western Bypass around Dundalk.

What utter balderdash and an example that you haven't the slightest idea of what you are talking about. The Toll is for the PPP bridge section! Are you for real?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

You possibly need to get out more often

Great argument there Councillor:rolleyes:. How about defending your statement re unemployment and the toll?

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Lilah Small Pilot wrote: »

What utter balderdash and an example that you haven't the slightest idea of what you are talking about. The Toll is for the PPP bridge section! Are you for real?

Check the agreements

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

veryangryman wrote: »

Seriously, you've been ripped to shreds on this post Cllr. Its actually sad to see the endless childish personal jibes you throw on people. Very unprofessional - i hope your attitude is not typical of your local government.

Please comment on the actual questions raised of you - one of which is what you are going to do in the town streets itself rather than the easy targets of one minor toll near a retail park.

I'll remind you again later on the off-chance you ignore this question again.

Could you please post a separate article on the streets in the town and I will gladly make comment, as I would like to stay on this road so to speak.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Lilah Small Pilot wrote: »

Great argument there Councillor:rolleyes:. How about defending your statement re unemployment and the toll?

Thank you, just friendly advice northing more.

Local businesses and I can speak from personal experience on this subject have found the ramp Toll an impediment to business transactions on a daily bases and places these companies at a competitive disadvantage and resulted in job losses.

CMpunked

K nacker wrote: »

Check out both retail car parks M1 Retail Park usually full, Drogheda Retail Park usually 80% empty

Im a member of the energie gym up there and have gotten early town services to the retail park and the amount of people in business suits and work uniforms getting the bus back into town is crazy.
The reason why that car park is always full all day is owing to it being only 2.40 for all day parking. People are availing of the free parking and the town bus service.
Nothing at all to do with the tolls.

Ruth85 wrote: »

you see you need to get off your arse and stop commenting on this thing and go and get yourself a job you cant be trying very hard if you stay on a computer all day.

Ruth, you have had 3 posts in total on the whole forum, you need to understand how discussion boards work.
First, attacks as such could get you banned from certain sections of the website and, unfortunately, disallow you to have your opinion shared.

Ruth85 wrote: »

This is nothing to do with the tolls what you are talking about. I presume to know you because you have shown nothing but hostility to this forum.

TSC has been far from hostile, check out the atheism forum if you want to see hostile. (;):pac:)

You can talk big words but are you able to put them into action and actually do something about your situation or are you going to moan about how everyone should pity you. And further more the unemployed have a right to speak as much as the next person you seem to twist things for your own pleasure.

I'm unemployed. And i feel implored to tell you i dont plan on getting a job for another 4+ years. I have a very good reason why. But i feel i should just tell you that portion of the story. :P

What should be discussed on this is how the tolls actually affect our town. Why dont you take action if you want something changed in town, and why dont you make an effort to do something rather than complaining and expecting others to do the work for you.

That is the issue being discussed on the thread.
Do the tolls affect the town.
There have been numerous questions put towards the cllr about the issue.

I stand by the idea that if an idea is worthless and bears no fruit it is to be pruned away and i think thats what everyone on the thread is striving to do, figure out is this really a serious issue for the people of the town as a whole.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

You need to get out more...Check the agreements...Local businesses have found the ramp Toll an impediment to business transactions

Perhaps Cllr you need to get to specifics. I think I probably get out more than you do and I most certainly know the legislation and arrangements with regard to the M1 toll.

Locall businesses are struggling with or without Tolls in most towns - where is your specific proof that the tolls are a factor? Drogheda businesses have actually been fairing better than their counterparts in Dundalk for the past 3 years. People from Dundalk are traveling to the retail parks and shopping centre in Drogheda and paying the tolls en route.

Again, how about being specific, so we can actually have a meaningful debate rather than retoric and hearsay?

Lord TSC

I was going to post another big, long post where I continued to propose questions you've ignored and refused to answer. You have time and time again refused to answer quite simple questions because the truth is the questions answer themselves and they are not answers which can be twisted around for good PR.

But rather than focus on asking those questions again, I'm just going to focus on this...

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

You possibly need to get out more often

The "Get a life" arguement is one I expect to recieve from a 13 year old message board troll; a poster who has come into a topic with an arguement which falls on it's ass and cannot logically follow a path anymore.

I most certainly do not expect it from a grown man, nor someone who wants to be a representative of a group of people.

What I find most ammusing is the questions I asked were not difficult, and had they be answered, even with a load of nonsense which was obviously political babble, then I would have respected you. I would have probably disagreed still, but I'd at least have respected you. Instead, you've now fallen back on personal attacks and lazy retorts, immature answers which hardly befit a man of your age or position.

This is nothing to do with the tolls what you are talking about. I presume to know you because you have shown nothing but hostility to this forum. I firstly did not say people on social welfare where lazy I said you where and that you should be trying to find a job rather than be on a site complaining....

I also asked you a question which you have neglected to respond to so what is you answer???

I know people close to be on social welfare and they are fighting to get jobs where as you are complain on not having one but yet I see no effort as you are on a computer lecturing others on the things you have admittedly never use and therefore have no right to judge other peoples actions..

Also to your jibe at my ability to work I have posted after working hours so what you have said is complete nonsense.


You can talk big words but are you able to put them into action and actually do something about your situation or are you going to moan about how everyone should pity you. And further more the unemployed have a right to speak as much as the next person you seem to twist things for your own pleasure.


What should be discussed on this is how the tolls actually affect our town. Why dont you take action if you want something changed in town, and why dont you make an effort to do something rather than complaining and expecting others to do the work for you. Tell people what you want stand up and take action I'm sure you where taught that some where down the line.

What a load of nonsense.

How do you know how much effort I've put into searching for a job at all. Because I took two minutes out of my day to post on a message board? What, do you want me to be spending every second of every day searching for a job? Am I allowed eat or go to the toilet or are these showing I'm lazy as well.

You don't have a clue how hard I'm searching for work and you have caused me quite a bit of offence with your last two posts. You have posted three messages on Boards.ie and two have been trying to discredit me with personal attacks, despite the fact you have no knowledge of how hard I work. It goes back to what I was saying to the counciller above; to imply someone needs to "get a life" is lazy debating. Rather than address the points I've raised, you've fallen back on trying to assault my character, despite having no knowledge or information as to what that is.

I'm working damn hard looking for a job. I've worked damn hard in education for years, picking up FOUR degrees in the process, and I am buying every paper, checking every website and sending CVs to every business I possibly can. Don't you dare comment on my personal situation without actually doing some research first.

And for the record, I have been trying to address the effects of the tolls on our town. It's all I've been doing. I've not engaged in petty sniping. I've not engaged in personal attacks as you and the counciller are now doing. I've asked some very simple questions about the counciller's propositions and he has point blank refused to answer them.

This topic is not about discussing the tolls. It wasn't set up for that and it's obviously not being treated as such by one side of the debate. This topic was set up to get some positive publicity and that's it. There's no intention on discussing the serious problems of the town. Instead it's trying to get a smalla article in the paper and something nice to put on leaflets next time an election runs round.

If you want to discuss how the toll affects the town, then do so. Go back over the topic and answer the string of questions which have been ignored, and stop trying to discredit the person behind the arguement.


On a fun sidenote, when you google "Drogheda Tolls", this topic now ranks above the counciller's website. Just something the PR hungry should realise...

K nacker

Lilah Small Pilot wrote: »

Perhaps Cllr you need to get to specifics. I think I probably get out more than you do and I most certainly know the legislation and arrangements with regard to the M1 toll.

Locall businesses are struggling with or without Tolls in most towns - where is your specific proof that the tolls are a factor? Drogheda businesses have actually been fairing better than their counterparts in Dundalk for the past 3 years. People from Dundalk are traveling to the retail parks and shopping centre in Drogheda and paying the tolls en route.

Again, how about being specific, so we can actually have a meaningful debate rather than retoric and hearsay?

Again your missing the point, They don't pay a toll for one Retail Park but do pay a toll for the other. the objection is to the toll at the on/off ramp at Junction 9.

Again I ask, why do shoppers travelling south into Drogheda from Dundalk, Ardee, Dunleer, Castlebellingham, Monisterboice etc, or west from Collon, Navan, Slane, etc shop in the M1 Retail park TOLL FREE, but have to pay a toll to get into and out of the Drogheda Retail Park?.

This setup is not fair and makes no sence.

Finally, a polite reminder to some of the posters, This topic is about the toll at J9.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

K nacker wrote: »

Again your missing the point, They don't pay a toll for one Retail Park but do pay a toll for the other. the objection is to the toll at the on/off ramp at Junction 9.

Again I ask, why do shoppers travelling south into Drogheda from Dundalk, Ardee, Dunleer, Castlebellingham, Monisterboice etc, or west from Collon, Navan, Slane, etc shop in the M1 Retail park TOLL FREE, but have to pay a toll to get into and out of the Drogheda Retail Park?.

This setup is not fair and makes no sence.

Finally, a polite reminder to some of the posters, This topic is about the toll at J9.

Point not missed at all. I am well aware the Toll is at the Donore Rd and not Mell. The traffic to the Donore Rd retail park is not hindered by the tolls any more than the M1 retail park benefits from not having a Toll. It doesn't influence if we vist a retail park or not! The value and choice in the stores dictates not whether there's an extra €3.60 on the cost of the trip - that would be spent on coffee when we're there!

And, AGAIN, the Toll is for using the portion of the motorway that includes the bridge. Hence the tolls where they are.

This really is a load of nonsense and such a petty matter to try and blame the ills of the state on right now.

Lord TSC

Strikes me 3.60 isn't much to get into that retail park when you consider you'd be paying about that for parking in most shopping centers anyway. Go to West Street or Scotch Hall where there's paid parking and you'll notice a fraction of the business is being done. The toll there is counterbalanced by the free parking on site and thus becomes a moot point.

Scotty #

^^ A very good point and further evidence that abolishing the tolls will make little or no difference to business in the tolled area.

Abolishing the toll will make it cheaper for some people to get to work while a few others (the toll operators) will lose their jobs. It will achieve nothing more.