Make Drogheda Toll Free

borderlinemeath

Scotty # wrote: »

^^ A very good point and further evidence that abolishing the tolls will make little or no difference to business in the tolled area.

Abolishing the toll will make it cheaper for some people to get to work while a few others (the toll operators) will lose their jobs. It will achieve nothing more.

From my use of the toll there is only one man working there that seems to value his job, older fella, grey hair, genuinely friendly, and was considerate enough to tell me that one of my headlight bulbs was gone one day.

The other girls I've encountered don't care at all. The blonde one seems to sit in the booth chatting on her phone or picking her nails. Always gets a bit annoyed when I give her coppers to count.

K nacker

Lilah Small Pilot wrote: »

Point not missed at all. I am well aware the Toll is at the Donore Rd and not Mell. The traffic to the Donore Rd retail park is not hindered by the tolls any more than the M1 retail park benefits from not having a Toll. It doesn't influence if we vist a retail park or not! The value and choice in the stores dictates not whether there's an extra €3.60 on the cost of the trip - that would be spent on coffee when we're there!

And, AGAIN, the Toll is for using the portion of the motorway that includes the bridge. Hence the tolls where they are.

This really is a load of nonsense and such a petty matter to try and blame the ills of the state on right now.

Loosen up a button or two there Lilah Small Pilot, this tpoic is not about the ills of the nation.

And sorry i annoyed you by useing the AGAIN word twice. I actually laughed out loud reading your post

“The traffic to the Donore Rd retail park is not hindered by the tolls any more than the M1 retail park benefits from not having a Toll” (now that’s just weird) again a LOL moment.

“It doesn't influence if we visit a retail park or not” “we”? the royal we perhaps, but I for one would be influenced by the €3.60 toll. That’s the price of a pint of Guinness for goodness sake.

Lastly, check out the traffic at the Western Motors roundabout (always busy) and the traffic coming through the J9 toll(a trickle). So it would appear to me on that evidence that alot of people are influenced by the €3.60 toll

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

On a fun sidenote, when you google "Drogheda Tolls", this topic now ranks above the counciller's website. Just something the PR hungry should realise...

Thank you Teamshadowclan for that notice.
I will come to a close on this discussion and focus solely on getting people to sign the petition, both online and on the roads and streets in and around Drogheda.
Thank you and I look forward to our next debate.

Lord TSC

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

Thank you Teamshadowclan for that notice.
I will come to a close on this discussion and focus solely on getting people to sign the petition, both online and on the roads and streets in and around Drogheda.
Thank you and I look forward to our next debate.

Well, hey, I guess if you can't answer the important questions, it's easier to just run away....

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

borderlinemeath wrote: »

From my use of the toll there is only one man working there that seems to value his job, older fella, grey hair, genuinely friendly, and was considerate enough to tell me that one of my headlight bulbs was gone one day.

The other girls I've encountered don't care at all. The blonde one seems to sit in the booth chatting on her phone or picking her nails. Always gets a bit annoyed when I give her coppers to count.

Apologies for drifting off topic but I can't agree with that. I have found all the operators at the tolls to be very friendly and considerate. I get a pleasent word from all of them.:)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

I will come to a close on this discussion and focus solely on getting people to sign the petition, both online and on the roads and streets in and around Drogheda.Thank you and I look forward to our next debate.

What debate? You failed to debate anything and answered none of the points raised by any contributors here. This could have been an enlightening discussion but..What absolute nonsense! :mad:

borderlinemeath

Lilah Small Pilot wrote: »

Apologies for drifting off topic but I can't agree with that. I have found all the operators at the tolls to be very friendly and considerate. I get a pleasent word from all of them.:)

Well I use the ramp toll mainly to travel north, and I have only ever had friendly interaction from the gentleman detailed in my last post. The others don't give a damn.

I am not a frequent user of the south ramp toll, but on the occasions I have used it I have to always ask for a receipt which is usually met with silence and then the receipt is thrust out the window at me. And this is the window where they should offer the receipt as it prevents the user paying again at the main toll booth if the journey time is short enough.

K nacker

I’m going to bow out too. I’m left scratching my head wondering why any right thinking person would not be in favor of scrapping the M1 J9 ramp toll booths.

Anyway, keep up the good work Ken

Lord TSC

@Ruth

Please realise as far as your opinions are concerned, I respect your entitlement to them. I disagree with them, but we are all entitled to our opinions. But two of your posts on this board were aimed at trying to discredit me, calling me lazy and saying because I was unemployed, I should not be allowed to comment on the topic raised by someone else.

If the councillor does manage to get some leeway on the tolls, I will applaud him. But I have not launched personal attacks, and if I have gotten personal as the topic progressed, it is because...
1. My earlier questions were completely ignored despite being genuine concerns.
2. You have gotten personal with me.
The truth is that no debate has taken place in this topic. One guy posted how his father was organising a campaign. Several questions were asked and ignored. The councillor came on, and he too ignored the questions. He started making personal and snide remarks befitting a 13 year old and not a councillor, and refused point blank to acknowledge or answer some very easy questions which would be proposed by any of the people involved in the toll revenue.

I am not asking you to apologise for your views, nor do I think you should ask me to apologise for mine. What I would like an apology for is you launching an attack on me, calling me lazy and blaming my unemployment on the fact I post on a message board. You, the councillor and others on the “Abolish tolls” side of this “debate” have ignored questions and pleas to tackle more important problems, and now people are running to the hills cause they know the answers are bad for PR. It’s not they are hard to answer. They just don’t want to answer them.

I’m not ridiculing anyone. I’m offering the other side to this debate, proposing questions and being ridiculed and attack for doing so. As I said, it’s not that I want tolls. It’s that I want time spent on genuine problems in Drogheda and not stupid annoyances like a toll which does not cause half the problems the councillor has said they do; they do not cause unemployment like he said and they do not drastically cut business in the retail parks, which are thriving while the rest of the town is on it’s last breath.

Time and time again now, you’ve neglected to address the issues raised and instead have tried to question me personally. Not my points or my arguments in this debate but me as a person. This is despite the fact you have no clue who I am. This is despite the fact you have never met me. You would rather engage in mudslinging than try and offer logical retorts to the questions raised. The councillor is the same, offering two line answers to posts which people have taken time to type up and post.

You say I should do something. I am. As a local person, I am addressing my grievances and my concerns to a local politician in the hope of seeing something of worth achieved. However in doing so, I am being attacked personally, and the councillor has engaged in mocking people for doing so, implying one person needs to “get a life”.

So in summary, I respect your opinion, but I do not respect how you have put it forward and how you have tried to drag this topic and “debate” into a personal one.

Also, there is now a huge stink of hypocrisy over the following quote from one of your posts...

Also to your jibe at my ability to work I have posted after working hours so what you have said is complete nonsense.

I’ll state I meant the comment about how bad you must be at your job cause you post during working hours as a joke and a retort to your attacks on me, but your reply now weakens your point.

I’m not being aggressive. I’m not trying to discredit anyone. I am asking questions and pushing for a real and genuine answer, and as a politician, that should be easy for the councillor to deal with.

Mr_Hat

[QUOTE=Ruth85;74130984
I believe the cllr. has answered question that has been asked to him but I feel you and others like you have been personally attacking him and anyone who dares to say anything against yous are ridiculed. I dont believe you want the answers given and you are looking to discredit a councillor in the process.

[/QUOTE]

I dont think the Cllr has, he claimed he didnt want to answer then for fear of derailing the thread. I have set up a seperate thread titled questions for Ken Healy. So hopefully he will be willing answer all the questions put him there.

I also have to admit Ruth I find it very suspicious that you signed up soley to post in this thread and have taken to attacking posters.

Mr_Hat

Ruth85 wrote: »

If you want specific questions asked why not put into simple bullet format so the person can read the question being asked to them. and then yous may get the answers you are looking for.

Because it wouldnt matter Ruth. He wouldnt answer them he said as much. He didnt want to "derail the thread". So now there is one dedicated to him.[HTML][/HTML]

Mr_Hat

Ruth85 wrote: »

I would answer any question put forward to me but as yet none has. The Cllr. was being attacked personally

No he wasnt, his style of politics were. No one make any personal comments about the Cllr

Mr_Hat

Ruth85 wrote: »

If the cllr new the actual questions yous where asking in a clear precise way, then there may be a point

Its spelled "Knew" Ruthie not "new". See that's a personal attack. See the difference?

Lord TSC

Ruth85 wrote: »

tsc you meant that as a jibe to me and not as a joke or any other forms of humor.

I would answer any question put forward to me but as yet none has. The Cllr. was being attacked personally He was answering questions and instead he was getting insulted for doing so. I would not blame him for leaving this tread.

I do not care for you nor would I want to. You had made a point that you where unemployed and I expressed a view and I did not call you lazy for being unemployed that would be like the pot calling the kettle black. You however have repeated that term over and over again. Also I said you should comment on something you have to deal with as you have admitted you do not use the tolls so therefore do not have to deal with the cost.

And when I asked you what you where doing I meant what action would you take personally not going to a councilor to express views. According to people on this councilors are not doing the work so the question I simply asked what action are you willing to take to get something done?

That "joke" was meant as a response to the poor logic you used to attack me. I'll admit it wasn't funny, but the point was you used the logic that I was on a computer ergo I was lazy and I turned it back on you to show that the logic is flawed. I don't believe you're bad at your job. I don't even know what your job is. And I certainly would not be audacious enough to claim that because you are using a message board, you're poor at it, nor should you claim that because I use a message board, I am lazy.

I've not asked you questions because you're not the one I want answers from. He was not attacked personally, he was not answering questions asked and he has left this thread cause he knows he cannot get the good PR he wants from it (as is evidenced by the section of my post he quoted in his farewell post).

You most certainly did call me lazy for being unemployed. You're exact words were...

I firstly did not say people on social welfare where lazy I said you where and that you should be trying to find a job rather than be on a site complaining....

I also disagree that just because I don't use the tolls I shouldn't get to discuss them, cause I have a feeling the vast majority of people in Drogheda don't use them. I also feel that just because it's not a regular part of my life means the questions I've been asking are not relevant. I put that in the same line as people who say Simon Cowell shouldn't judge a singing contest; just because I don't use the tolls regularly doesn't mean I cannot see what problems there are there, the priority of investigation that should be assigned, etc.

However you'll also notice time and time again I've addressed issues which do affect me and they've been ignored as well.

As for what action I'm doing, you're right, I'm not doing anything politically. I'd love to be able to organise a way to tackle several of the real problems of Drogheda but the truth is there's little I can actually do. The people who can do something, such as the counciller, is instead wasting his time on petty nuisances, and that's whats getting me riled up.

It's the same all over Ireland. The people who can fix the problems are ignoring them and the young people who want to do something are having to emigrate. Politicans are more interested in good PR than they are with dealing with legit problems, and that's proven here by the constant avoidance of simple, genuine questions.

If you want specific questions asked why not put into simple bullet format so the person can read the question being asked to them. and then yous may get the answers you are looking for.

Is this the level of politican we can expect then? One who does not address the issues and answer questions unless they are presented in bullet point form? Shall I avoid use of words with more than three syllables as well?

Ruth, I was going to answer the PM you sent, cause it seemed genuine, and it's not that I want this to be a personal debate. But question are not being answered. Genuine and simple questions that should have been delt with quickly when they were posted. I won't personally attack you (again, if you think I have) but there are so many issues that have been ignored and both you and the counciller resorted to cheap mudslinging in an attempt to skirt the issue.

digitaldarragh

Greetings all,

Ruth, you’re funny. Maybe change your name to AngryRuth?

Mr_Hat, I would suggest that if you would like ken to answer specific questions directed at him then perhaps you would like to change the title of the newly created thread to reflect the correct spelling of his name? I will also add that this has been provided in a number of places throughout this conversation. In case there is any confusion, you may copy and paste the spelling ( Ken Ó Héiligh ).

As Ken is much more aware of the situation regarding his ongoing campaign to have the toll removed from J9 on the M1 I don't think it is necessary for me to be involved in answering any questions posed on this topic.

Interestingly, I was quite happy to see this morning that in the past six days, twenty six people have signed the signature at www.makedroghedatollfree.com by clicking on the links in this forum. Although the website is little over a week old, the number of signatures in the petition has grown to over 510. If your right and this thread was started for publicity, it certainly didn't do a bad job.

While you’re at it, www.digitaldarragh.com could do with a few more visits as well.

Mr_Hat

digitaldarragh wrote: »

In case there is any confusion, you may copy and paste the spelling ( Ken Ó Héiligh ).

Hi Darragh thats been corrected. It could be fantastic if your dad could respond to the questions I have put to him in the other thread..

digitaldarragh

Mr_Hat,
Thanks. As requested in your PM, I'll direct him to that topic.

I asked this earlier, but it wasn't answered: who is going to pay for this?

Lord TSC

Deleted User wrote: »

I asked this earlier, but it wasn't answered: who is going to pay for this?

The idea put forward was that the financial gains made by the businesses in the retail park would somehow justify the defaulting and thus financial losses of the people who make money from the tolls.

delly

Ruth85 banned for 7 days for being abusive towards other posters.

This thread is close to being locked people. Play nice.

bigneacy

Lilah Small Pilot wrote: »

What debate? You failed to debate anything and answered none of the points raised by any contributors here. This could have been an enlightening discussion but..What absolute nonsense! :mad:

I really am in disbelief, 12 pages in and the Cllr. has failed to [snip]

He has avoided questions and behaved like a [snip]

This thread has been a real eye opener and yet an absolute farce at the same time. It doesn't even come close to the farce that is the "Make Drogheda Toll Free" petition - spearheaded by a man who cares no more for [snip]

Councillor Ken Healy, you are [snip]

Scotty #

To elaborate on my point earlier a bit further...

There are two toll booths in question. I presume they run on 3 x 8hr shifts. Extra staff for the weekend, one or two backroom staff.... I reckon there are up to 12 people employed full time by just those two toll booths. Certainly 8 at least. Councillor has also suggested stated that the toll booths have contributed towards Drogheda's unemployment.

So my question (in green so I know you see it)...

How many jobs does the Councillor believe will be immediately created by the closing of the toll booths and AS A DIRECT RESULT of the closing of the toll booths? And what evidence do you have to support the claim?

bigneacy

Scotty # wrote: »

To elaborate on my point earlier a bit further...

There are two toll booths in question. I presume they run on 3 x 8hr shifts. Extra staff for the weekend, one or two backroom staff.... I reckon there are up to 12 people employed full time by just those two toll booths. Certainly 8 at least. Councillor has also suggested stated that the toll booths have contributed towards Drogheda's unemployment.

So my question (in green so I know you see it)...

How many jobs does the Councillor believe will be immediately created by the closing of the toll booths and AS A DIRECT RESULT of the closing of the toll booths? And what evidence do you have to support the claim?

You're quite right - for both the on-off ramp the total hours needing worked per week is 336, thats 8.4 people on a 40 hour week, since you can't have a 40% person, thats 9 individuals to take the money.

You also need relief staff, probably one for each booth - what if the person has to use the loo? Or the person is going for a ciggie or on lunch? Thats another 1 person required constantly - another 5 staff.

Holiday staff? Backroom staff? Supervisors? All in I reckon those two toll boths alone are providing much needed employment to at least 15 people. Thats the very bare minimum.

borderlinemeath

bigneacy wrote: »

You're quite right - for both the on-off ramp the total hours needing worked per week is 336, thats 8.4 people on a 40 hour week, since you can't have a 40% person, thats 9 individuals to take the money.

You also need relief staff, probably one for each booth - what if the person has to use the loo? Or the person is going for a ciggie or on lunch? Thats another 1 person required constantly - another 5 staff.

Holiday staff? Backroom staff? Supervisors? All in I reckon those two toll boths alone are providing much needed employment to at least 15 people. Thats the very bare minimum.

As far as I can remember (haven't used them late night in a while) the ramp tolls are unmanned from midnight to 6am.

bigneacy

borderlinemeath wrote: »

As far as I can remember (haven't used them late night in a while) the ramp tolls are unmanned from midnight to 6am.

Can somebody verify this?!

borderlinemeath

bigneacy wrote: »

Can somebody verify this?!

I tried to get onto the CRG website to do just that but it's down for maintenence.

Last time I can remember using it late night was Feb 2010 and it was definately shut. If anything it's probably extended the unmanned hours!

Scotty #

borderlinemeath wrote: »

As far as I can remember (haven't used them late night in a while) the ramp tolls are unmanned from midnight to 6am.

Even so, it's still quite a few people you are putting on the dole que. Is the councillor guaranteeing that this will be offset by new jobs as a direct result of the toll closure? I doubt it very much. I can't see that there will be such a surge of people from the north side that it will create ANY jobs. Now a 10-20% drop in council rates... that would really make a difference!!

borderlinemeath

Scotty # wrote: »

Even so, it's still quite a few people you are putting on the dole que. Is the councillor guaranteeing that this will be offset by new jobs as a direct result of the toll closure? I doubt it very much. I can't see that there will be such a surge of people from the north side that it will create ANY jobs. Now a 10-20% drop in council rates... that would really make a difference!!

Louth CoCo have done an incentive scheme for rates for new businesses willing to set up in the town centre. A 50% cut for the first year, and 25% for the second year. Payments must be by direct debit and businesses must move into premises that have been vacant for at least 2 years.

http://www.louthcoco.ie/en/Services/Business_Support_Unit/Business_Incentive_District_Scheme/

Scotty #

This is to promote the Town Centre. It offers nothing the the thousands of struggling businesses in Meath/Louth who are being crippled by their council rates.

borderlinemeath

Scotty # wrote: »

This is to promote the Town Centre. It offers nothing the the thousands of struggling businesses in Meath/Louth who are being crippled by their council rates.

Agreed, council rates are extortionate, not just Meath/Louth but nationwide. But this is something to at least try and generate new business back into the town centre and I don't think it's limited to Drogheda town centre.

If half the empty units in the town centre were filled it would certainly bring shoppers back into the town. There's a few new retailers in the West St/Shop St area already and it's good to see.