Make Drogheda Toll Free

Scotty #

borderlinemeath wrote: »

If half the empty units in the town centre were filled it would certainly bring shoppers back into the town.

To be honest, I don't think it will. I think people in Drogheda who are going 'shopping' will go to the likes of Scotch Hall, Lawrences Centre, or the Retail Parks. Mainly due to 2 things... parking and brand names.

I think West street is finished as a shopping steet and mainly for two reasons... lack of parking and lack of brand names. I think it should now be promoted to restaurants, cafe's, pubs, and more 'touristy' businesses, craft shops, etc. Maybe make it totally pedestrian. Much like Shop street in Galway. Maybe offer the rates discount to ALL businesses on the street on the condition they renovate their shop fronts (and in a traditional style). Try to promote it as a weekend destination like Kilkenny or Killarney.

Just a suggestion. I really can never see it as a bustling shopping street as it was 15-20 years ago.

borderlinemeath

Scotty # wrote: »

To be honest, I don't think it will. I think people in Drogheda who are going 'shopping' will go to the likes of Scotch Hall, Lawrences Centre, or the Retail Parks. Mainly due to 2 things... parking and brand names.

I think West street is finished as a shopping steet and mainly for two reasons... lack of parking and lack of brand names. I think it should now be promoted to restaurants, cafe's, pubs, and more 'touristy' businesses, craft shops, etc. Maybe make it totally pedestrian. Much like Shop street in Galway. Maybe offer the rates discount to ALL businesses on the street on the condition they renovate their shop fronts (and in a traditional style). Try to promote it as a weekend destination like Kilkenny or Killarney.

Just a suggestion. I really can never see it as a bustling shopping street as it was 15-20 years ago.

Retail Parks certainly for parking, but Scotch Hall and Laurence Centre are hardly thriving. As for your suggestion of making West St totally pedestrian have you forgotton the debacle of the redevelopment? To pedestrianise it would probably kill it entirely.

As it happens Laurences Gate is to be pedestrianised. Touch wood it won't damage businesses on the street but after the West St cock up, nothing is for sure.

Lord TSC

Tbh, I always liked the idea of West Street being pedestrianised. I always felt the problem was they started it up when Scotch Hall was just opening, meaning they chased people away when competition was becoming available and people never returned, and on top of that it took them years and they still didn't do what they originally said. I liked the idea but the execution was horrendous....

borderlinemeath

In fairness, if you walk/drive down West St it's been in far worse a state. There is a bit of a buzz back again, particularly with the market stalls and the "fiver friday" buzz (although this may be short lived).

The real problem is when you drive up Donore Rd into the empty industrial units and the old disused factories. There needs to be a stimulus plan to entice new business into this area.

Lord TSC

I know its a pipedream, but I always dream that one day I can win the Euromillions, buy a few of the industrial estate buildings, and convert them into a big arena, threatre, hotel etc sector.

K nacker

The real problem is when you drive up Donore Rd into the empty industrial units and the old disused factories. There needs to be a stimulus plan to entice new business into this area.[/QUOTE]

Too late now I know, but inflexible unions and high wages was a major factor to the downfall of those factories

I knew a lady who worked in Coca-cola on 55K a year,

Her job? ......A cleaner.

She went on to tell me "not one employee ever left Coca cola, the money and perks were too good".

The sad thing is when Coac cola, IFF, Thorsmans etc go, it has a knock-on effect to all surrounding businesses.

Wertz

Lilah Small Pilot wrote: »

And, AGAIN, the Toll is for using the portion of the motorway that includes the bridge. Hence the tolls where they are.

Indeed.
But that would beg the question that if I leave Drogheda southbound via donore on-ramp, why do I pay the toll since I haven't used the bridge?

In truth you are paying for both the 20km stretch of M1 from J11 to J8 City North hotel and the cablestay bridge, both costly infrastructure.
However if I'm coming south toward Drogheda and use the 5km of M1 & Bridge from J11 to J9, exiting at Drogheda I pay the same amount...similarly if I use the toll booth to leave Drogheda heading north, I pay the same as someone who has used 4 times the legth of road.

My point is that if indeed the donore rd toll plaza is creating a problem and is in fact leading to under utilisation of J9 by traffic coming from north of the town, then rather than abolishing it, a definite price drop should be in order.
A €1 flat fee for that junction either coming off or joining the M1 would be a somewhat fairer solution and might lead to more traffic using it (as someone who works in and visits relatives in Drogheda regularly I can honestly say I've never used J9 off-ramp and only use the on-ramp if I'm coming from Duleek or that direction as the traffic isn't worth it). Wouldn't it be better to have more traffic using it at a lower rate than almost no cars using it at the current cost?
As for the retail parks: I've been in power city oine more than I've been in DID one, mainly due to the toll.

The M1 and bridge is there to alleviate congestion in Drogheda, but I'd argue that the bridge at least is there to facilitate cars entering from the M1, especially for the southbank of the town...lowering (or indeed removing) the donore toll would not encourage people to use that route then on via Julianstown to avoid the main toll plaza...as others have said, no-one in their right mind uses J11 to J8 to avoid the toll, not even a tight c*nt like me...

tl:dr version The donore toll should be lowered but removing it is unrealistic for all involved.

Teamshadowclan

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

The idea put forward was that the financial gains made by the businesses in the retail park would somehow justify the defaulting and thus financial losses of the people who make money from the tolls.

I hear what you're saying, but it's a bit vague and doesn't really answer the question.

If CRG or whatever they're called are willing to forego the money and ditch the toll, then they're the ones who will pay. If they're willing to pay, that's fine. But if they aren't willing to pay, that means that the only way to get them to ditch the toll would be to buy them out. Who is going to do that? And who is going to fund it? It's not as if the taxpayer (or the German taxpayer) can afford it. So who else will cough up?

Lord TSC

Deleted User wrote: »

I hear what you're saying, but it's a bit vague and doesn't really answer the question.

If CRG or whatever they're called are willing to forego the money and ditch the toll, then they're the ones who will pay. If they're willing to pay, that's fine. But if they aren't willing to pay, that means that the only way to get them to ditch the toll would be to buy them out. Who is going to do that? And who is going to fund it? It's not as if the taxpayer (or the German taxpayer) can afford it. So who else will cough up?

Hey, I agree with you. I called BS on the answer as well, but that was the answer given, hence why I replied to you with that post

Teamshadowclan

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Hey, I agree with you. I called BS on the answer as well, but that was the answer given, hence why I replied to you with that post

Understood. I didn't mean that you were vague, I meant that the idea doesn't seem to have been fully thought through by its proposers. Sorry for any confusion.

As it happens, if it were possible to eliminate the toll without someone else having to pick up the tab I wouldn't object. I travel that road regularly enough, and I have to pay two tolls to get from the south side of Dublin to the south side of Drogheda - four on a return trip. I don't mind doing that, but I can see how it would be a bit infuriating for locals. But if it means that CRG have to be "bought out" and the taxpayer has to foot the bill then I'm all against it.

Of course, if we had a more rational tolling system there would be less of a problem. Rather than tolling fixed points on the roads, we should have readers on all the entry and exit ramps on the motorways and toll on the basis of distance travelled. That way, you'd still have to pay a toll to cross the Boyne and exit at the Donore junction, but you'd only be paying a fraction of the current amount.

locum-motion

Deleted User wrote: »

...

Of course, if we had a more rational tolling system there would be less of a problem. Rather than tolling fixed points on the roads, we should have readers on all the entry and exit ramps on the motorways and toll on the basis of distance travelled. That way, you'd still have to pay a toll to cross the Boyne and exit at the Donore junction, but you'd only be paying a fraction of the current amount.

My brother's a civil engineer by profession, and knows about such matters. I asked him why they didn't do this and he said it would work out way too expensive.

locum-motion

locum-motion wrote: »

My brother's a civil engineer by profession, and knows about such matters. I asked him why they didn't do this and he said it would work out way too expensive.

I hear what you're saying, but it isn't a civil engineering issue. The barrier to doing this (pardon the pun) is the cost of acquiring and installing the readers and cameras. However expensive the equipment might be, it is a lot less expensive than toll booths and toll collectors.

locum-motion

Deleted User wrote: »

I hear what you're saying, but it isn't a civil engineering issue. The barrier to doing this (pardon the pun) is the cost of acquiring and installing the readers and cameras.

That's what he and I were referring to.

Deleted User wrote: »

However expensive the equipment might be, it is a lot less expensive than toll booths and toll collectors.

No, apparently not, going by what he told me.

Scotty #

If the pricing was structured correctly they would make far more money than they do now. Many millions more in fact.

I would guess that as it is now only a tiny tiny percentage of those that use the M1 pay a toll.

locum-motion

locum-motion wrote: »

That's what he and I were referring to.



No, apparently not, going by what he told me.

If that turns out to be the case (and I don't doubt your sincerity), then we can all expect Ireland's motorways to be slowed down over the next year or two. More of the motorway system is going to be tolled to raise money, and if it's cheaper to block the roads with toll booths than to put electronic toll collection systems in place, then that's what the Government is going to do.

In that case, we needn't expect any relief from tolls for Drogheda motorists any time soon, not that this is likely to happen in any event.

delly

bigneacy, I have had to edit post 172. As you know sometimes we have to remove comments if we receive complaints as to leave them could expose the site to unwanted action.

K nacker

delly wrote: »

bigneacy, I have had to edit post 172. As you know sometimes we have to remove comments if we receive complaints as to leave them could expose the site to unwanted action.

Jaysus, just when this embarrassing tolls debacle was dying down, someone complains, and it’s back in the public eye again. :pac:

Mr_Hat

I cant remember if I've posted this already. But I've started a thread of questions for Ken Healy. I've messaged both Ken and his son, directing them both to the thread. Since the thread was started Ken, has logged on twice and ignored it. If anyone has any questions for Ken please post them there, and maybe we can shame him into answering us. And if not, at least we will have something to ask him and the other candidates when they come knocking.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74262329#post74262329

bigneacy

Mr_Cat wrote: »

okay i would just like to say i taught this piece was on toll free Drogheda not a few people criticizing a local Cllr? either you want to HELP get Drogheda toll free or you don't! so just keep your personal comments to yourself and be brave enough to ask the man the questions to his face and not over Boards.ie! have some decency. i don't know Cllr. O'heiligh personally but i still don't believe the man should be abused and criticized on trying to do something right !

The Cllr. Is in the public eye, and seemingly that's where he likes to be. He is fair game so long as he leads a public life. Also, what you believe to be right may be perceived by some to be a self publicising PR excercise and a waste of time and funds that could better used elsewhere.

I could have gone differently with this reply... Pointing out that this is your first post, and that it's slightly suspect that you went out of your way to register and defend a man you don't know. I could have questioned your choice of username- one closely resembling another active member of this thread (a more cynical man might even think you were mocking Mr_Hat) or I could've even criticised you for bumping a two week old thread that nobody had really been interested in seeing back up near the top again.

In any case - your post is shallow and see-through (not unlike the make drogheda toll free campaign)

Mr_Hat

Mr_Cat wrote: »

okay i would just like to say i taught this piece was on toll free Drogheda not a few people criticizing a local Cllr?

It was a thread set up by the Cllr son to get people to sign his online poll. It then became like many other threads on boards a discussion on the toll, and what a lost cause it is. And the Cllr behind it. Whos SON also started this thread.

be brave enough to ask the man the questions to his face and not over Boards.ie! have some decency.

Well I plan on doing that next time I see the man. But the man is also a poster. So I think he's fair game. If any other Cllr or member of there team chose to post here. I'd have questions for them as well.

i don't know Cllr. O'heiligh personally

I doubt that VERY much,

but i still don't believe the man should be abused and criticized on trying to do something right !

I dont think anyone is abusing the man, criticzing his politics yes. Abusing him no.

bigneacy

delly wrote: »

bigneacy, I have had to edit post 172. As you know sometimes we have to remove comments if we receive complaints as to leave them could expose the site to unwanted action.

Only seeing this now, delly - thanks, don't wanna be getting boards.ie in trouble. It's just a pity certain individuals who are in the public eye have to hide behind legal threats for fear of being exposed for what they really are.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Oh Mr Cat. You are so obvious. You must think we came down in the last shower not to see your links to Mr Heally. Your writing style, grammar etc - identical. It you wish to troll at least do it with some style.

The Cllr, and kin, started the thread and then couldn't defend their stance at all. Sad really that this is the level of representation people get.

Scotty #

Lilah Small Pilot wrote: »

Sad really...

Pathetic is the word I would use.

To register here looking for support and then tell people to 'get a life' when they don't offer it immediately is outrageous. Ignore every question put to him and then disappear altogether! The councillor will never ever ever get my vote. EVER!


I suspect his son has done more damage than good to his fathers reputation by registering on boards.ie.

Lord TSC

What amuses me is that these topics were dead. I think most of us had moved on. But now they get bumped back up and the discussion reopens. :rolleyes:

Scotty #

I was just thinking that as I read Mr_Cat's comment on the other thread...

Mr_Cat wrote:

if so i should think you should do this offline and stop posting stupid comments such as the ones posted.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Originally Posted by Cllr. Ken O Heiligh
To a large degree you should thank the hard pressed motorists of Drogheda for the Toll free Western Bypass around Dundalk.

Lilah Small Pilot wrote: »

What utter balderdash and an example that you haven't the slightest idea of what you are talking about. The Toll is for the PPP bridge section! Are you for real?

The Dundalk Western By-pass motorway was officially opened on Monday 26th September 2005, five months ahead of schedule. This additional 11km of motorway was added to the 43km already operated by CRG. CRG operates and maintains the M1 motorway from Gormanston (Meath) to just short of Balymascanlan (Louth). CRG, run and maintain this 54km section of the M1 motorway until 2034.The Dundalk Western By-pass is not only an integral link between Dublin and Belfast but is also part of the Trans-European Road Network (Euroroute E01) This project is fully funded through the collection of tolls located south of the Boyne near Drogheda.
The above is from Celtic Road Groups.

I hope this clears up the matter for you.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

CMpunked wrote: »

Cllr O'Heiligh Has he helped out a few people i know in regards to situations? Yes, to an extent.

Due to confidentiality I am unable to respond.

CMpunked wrote: »

However, a few years ago there was a very active group of youths who campaigned greatly for the council, or anyone, infact, to build a designated skateboarding/bmx/rollerblading area within the town. I was involved with the campaign and pretty much the one solitary Councillor who got involved was Mr. O'Heiligh. At first it was great, all smiles, meetings, action plans and all that.

If my memory serves me right. A sum of €150,000 was set aside by Drogheda Borough Council for the provision of a Skateboard park. Having identified and debated on a number of potential sites. I proposed a site adjacent to the swimming pool. I and a number Councillors visited the site and we agreed that it offered suitable security and lighting to the skateboarders. However on the night that the Borough Council were due to vote on this location a petition signed by young skateboards was presented to the meeting and the site was not selected. Prior to the vote the County Manager advised that the money would be withdrawn. It had taken a number of years to advance this project and was very disappointing to all involved.
I have my own theory on the sequence of events that torpedoed the project but that another days work.

CMpunked wrote: »

youth of the town of drogheda is still struggling with a plight to get an area of drogheda designated to practice an ever growing sport.

I will offer the full use of my office to assist the re-launch of a skateboard park initiative.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

Originally Posted by Cllr. Ken O Heiligh
To a large degree you should thank the hard pressed motorists of Drogheda for the Toll free Western Bypass around Dundalk.
[/B][/COLOR]

I hope this clears up the matter for you.

Not in the slightest. You seem to think that nobody but Drogheda people pay tolls. That is too narrow sighted to be believed. You may as well say every person who ever travelled the road paid for a toll free western by pass. The PPP is for 54km pure and simple. Anybody who uses the PPP section benefits from doing so and pays to do so. Don't use the road and don't pay the toll. How else do you suggest it is paid for? Also, you blame it for costing jobs and continually fail to answer the questions asked as to how many jobs and where. Rates cost businesses more than any drop in customer due to tolls. Pay parking in town affects trade but there is no evidence that the tolls do so. I know people from Dundalk who pay the tolls to visit the Donore Rd retail areas because there are decent shops and free parking. The toll is cheaper than parking in town. You have an obvious bias and just can't see through it or adequately state your opposition either.

CMpunked

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

I will offer the full use of my office to assist the re-launch of a skateboard park initiative.

Dont want to drag the thread off topic, but i really hope it does go somewhere.
Whatever the reasons that it had been halted have been written to history, but i really do hope that sometime in the near future it gets restarted again.
I still know a few people around my age (early 20s) who were only teenagers when the campaign was started, who would be still very much interested in starting it again.
Is there any hope at this stage, ken, honestly?

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Lilah Small Pilot wrote: »

Not in the slightest. You seem to think that nobody but Drogheda people pay tolls. That is too narrow sighted to be believed. You may as well say every person who ever travelled the road paid for a toll free western by pass. The PPP is for 54km pure and simple. Anybody who uses the PPP section benefits from doing so and pays to do so. Don't use the road and don't pay the toll. How else do you suggest it is paid for? Also, you blame it for costing jobs and continually fail to answer the questions asked as to how many jobs and where. Rates cost businesses more than any drop in customer due to tolls. Pay parking in town affects trade but there is no evidence that the tolls do so. I know people from Dundalk who pay the tolls to visit the Donore Rd retail areas because there are decent shops and free parking. The toll is cheaper than parking in town. You have an obvious bias and just can't see through it or adequately state your opposition either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilah Small Pilot
What utter balderdash and an example that you haven't the slightest idea of what you are talking about. The Toll is for the PPP bridge section! Are you for real?


In a previous comment you stated, “What utter balderdash and an example that you haven't the slightest idea of what you are talking about. The Toll is for the PPP bridge section! Are you for real”? Now Lilah Small Pilot you have change your opinion and recognise that the Toll is for the 54km section which facilitates free local use of the 11km Dundalk Western By-Pass.
Again you stated, ‘Anybody who uses the PPP section benefits from doing so and pays to do so’. This is not the case for local vehicular use on the Dundalk Western By-Pass.