Make Drogheda Toll Free

Scotty #

EI_Flyboy wrote: »

Julianstown has chronic levels of traffic. More than 22,000 vehicles per day go through the village.

Flyboy you fail to understand that without tolls these motorways would never have been built. That's a fact. The government did not have the money and could not get the money. Roadstone, as it was known then, came along and offered to build the roads - for a fee (ie. toll booths for X years).

The motorway takes massive traffic out of Drogheda, Julinastown, Balbriggan, and so on. That's also a fact.

Therefore, tolls have paid for, and are necessary for, the massive reduction in traffic in these towns.

This is not my opinion Flyboy, these are indisputable facts.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

EI_Flyboy wrote: »

Wikipedia: ....

1. Wikipedia!!! :rolleyes::D:p:rolleyes:

2. You obviously don't remember driving through Julianstown (and Balbriggan) pre-motorways. It was grid lock all the way. Between the towns drivers vied for position and overtook at any opportunity. It was mayhem and lethal.

3. The fact still remains that Julianstown with be many times worse if the motorway was not in place. That motorway is only there because somebody built it and has to be paid for it.

Tolls by providing the motorway have eased traffic and saved lives; not to mention making my daily commutes so much easier and economical (60+MPG on the motorway, compared to less LT 40MPG on minor roads means I save as much on fuel as I pay on tolls.)

EI_Flyboy

For however many amount of people realise they're saving money using the toll, there are always those who will avoid them. That's the Problem. How does a steady increase in traffic through Julianstown even after the toll was introduced equate to easing?

There's more than one type of corruption, there's criminal corruption and aloso incompetent corruption though they usually go hand in hand. If you wish to continue believing the crap you're being spoon fed is chocolate, go right ahead. I know full well there is corruption in this country, unfortunately repeating what I know here would only be heresay and nodoubt only get me more booing and hissing. There is one anecdote that comes to mind of contractors bidding on a bypass in the midlands giving a brown envelope to a local official, they figured out a rival had gotten the contract when they saw the guy driving about in a brand new BMW. Of course coming from me you're free to treat that as hearsay. No politician has gone to jail for corruption in this country though they have gone to jail defending what they believe in, some because they believe in a fair deal for everyone and sothers because they believe corruption is a-ok.

There is always a better way to do things, it's lazy to say otherwise.

If the motorways were tolled properly (i.e. by distance travelled) there would be a lot less incentive to drive through Julianstown. If trucks are a problem for the village, the solution is not to remove the toll for trucks on the motorway - the solution is to figure out how to toll the trucks passing through Julianstown.

enricoh

i dont think its that big a deal 1.80, to be honest. you would use up 1.80s worth of petrol by going sitting at the roughly 10 sets of lights from north road to southgate

vetstu

Deleted User wrote: »

The solution is to figure out how to toll the trucks passing through Julianstown.

That is one of the most stupid statements I have seen on boards.
Julianstown is the free alternative to the motorway. The lorry drivers have the right to travel whichever they wish. They are saving almost €12 each way on a return journey.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I think (and we all took it as) he meant that as a sarcastic comment! :rolleyes:

vetstu

vetstu wrote: »

That is one of the most stupid statements I have seen on boards.
Julianstown is the free alternative to the motorway. The lorry drivers have the right to travel whichever they wish. They are saving almost €12 each way on a return journey.

Stop being silly - this is boards, and you have to work really really hard to get a post into its "most stupid" hall of fame. :rolleyes:

No-one is disputing the right of the lorry drivers to travel where they wish. If you think that lorry drivers can travel where they wish for free, irrespective of the consequences, you are entitled to that view. I happen to disagree.

Except for people who are impossibly naive, we all know that life is about making real choices between real alternatives. Some people believe that commercial traffic is diminishing the environment and quality of life in Julianstown - and that this is because of the fact that it is cheaper for trucks to go through the village than to use the motorway.

If they believe that, there are two ideas they can propose to eliminate the gap in cost between Julianstown and the motorway. One is to eliminate the toll. The other is to make the trucks pay either way, and remove their incentive to travel through the village.

If everything in life was free, then it wouldn't matter. If the State had loads of money, then maybe it could afford to give something away to yet another vested interest group. But the State is broke, and if they give everyone a freebie for bypassing Drogheda then either someone has to pay, or the State has to give up something else - probably something else that is of a higher priority than letting people whizz along a motorway for free.

It's tough, but like I said it's about real choices between real alternatives. And it's not as if we're talking about some fundamental human right here. It's commercial traffic, so the only reason for not paying the toll is profit.

Anyway, for the sake of tidiness, let's say that the solution isn't to toll trucks for passing through Julianstown. Instead, let's say that the solution is to toll the motorway entrance at Junction 7 south of Julianstown. That way, most of the traffic leaves Julianstown alone, the State doesn't have to buy out the tolling rights in the CRG contract with money it doesn't have, and traffic still has the R132 "free alternative".

Everybody wins.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Has anyone seen a copy of the 30 YEAR Drogheda TOLL contract ?

locum-motion

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

Has anyone seen a copy of the 30 YEAR Drogheda TOLL contract ?

I would guess that the parties to the contract have seen it!
As in; the company that operates the road, the company that built the road, the NRA, perhaps a Co Council or two, and so on.

I doubt if other people have seen it; what business of anyone else's is it?

I am especially curious as to why a councillor (or perhaps it's someone pretending to be a councillor!) would come onto a public forum to ask (many times) if Joe Soap can show him a copy of the contract.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh (if that's who you are): Since you're a councillor, ask the Council to show you a copy. If you're entitled to see it, they'll show it to you. If you're not entitled to see it, then STFU! And why would you imagine that someone that's a party to the contract - in the unlikely event of them reading your question here - would post it in a public forum just coz you asked them to?

CMpunked

locum-motion wrote: »

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh (if that's who you are): Since you're a councillor, ask the Council to show you a copy. If you're entitled to see it, they'll show it to you. If you're not entitled to see it, then STFU! And why would you imagine that someone that's a party to the contract - in the unlikely event of them reading your question here - would post it in a public forum just coz you asked them to?

Convenient thread bump?

locum-motion

CMpunked wrote: »

Convenient thread bump?

It wasn't me that bumped it.
"Cllr Ken O heilligh" has bumped three separate threads by asking the same question in each of them within the last 48 or so hours. I reported the 1st one without responding, but when I thought about it, I thought the questions I asked needed to be asked.

CMpunked

locum-motion wrote: »

It wasn't me that bumped it.
"Cllr Ken O heilligh" has bumped three separate threads by asking the same question in each of them within the last 48 or so hours. I reported the 1st one without responding, but when I thought about it, I thought the questions I asked needed to be asked.

No I get that, I was suggesting why the councillor had brought the question up.

GreyEagle

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyway, for the sake of tidiness, let's say that the solution isn't to toll trucks for passing through Julianstown. Instead, let's say that the solution is to toll the motorway entrance at Junction 7 south of Julianstown. That way, most of the traffic leaves Julianstown alone, the State doesn't have to buy out the tolling rights in the CRG contract with money it doesn't have, and traffic still has the R132 "free alternative".

Everybody wins.

If you toll the entrance at Junction 7 south of Julianstown, the trucks will stay on the old road until reaching the next junction, so that simply won’t work. Much better to apply the system used at the Dublin Port Tunnel; free to all commercial vehicles. That will get the trucks out of Drogheda and onto the motorway.
BTW, what are the statistics for fatalities in Drogheda due to accidents involving commercial vehicles over the past few years?

Lord TSC

CMpunked wrote: »

No I get that, I was suggesting why the councillor had brought the question up.

I'm actually amused he's stopped this topic from dying again :P

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

locum-motion wrote: »

I doubt if other people have seen it; what business of anyone else's is it?

The public part of the PPP contract should be of interest and avalable to view in a public building in the interest of openness and transparency.

locum-motion wrote: »

I am especially curious as to why a councillor would come onto a public forum to ask (many times) if Joe Soap can show him a copy of the contract.

Correction I merely enquired if anyone had sight of the contract as many on the Boards forum appear to be well informed on the operation of the Drogheda Toll and maybe just maybe they came across the elusive contract document. Please note the change in font is simply down to cut and paste.

locum-motion wrote: »

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh Since you're a councillor, ask the Council to show you a copy. If you're entitled to see it, they'll show it to you. If you're not entitled to see it, then STFU! And why would you imagine that someone that's a party to the contract - in the unlikely event of them reading your question here - would post it in a public forum just coz you asked them to?

I belive that the document is of public interest and why not have it available in a public forum.

locum-motion

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

The public part of the PPP contract should be of interest and avalable to view in a public building in the interest of openness and transparency.

Just because on of the 'P's stands for 'Public', it doesn't neccessarily follow that any Joe Soap that wants to has the right to see the contract. The public's interest is represented by one or more of the parties to the contract ie. the NRA, the Co. Councils or whoever.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

Correction I merely enquired if anyone had sight of the contract as many on the Boards forum appear to be well informed on the operation of the Drogheda Toll and maybe just maybe they came across the elusive contract document. Please note the change in font is simply down to cut and paste.

And, as I asked before, if someone who is a party to the contract happens to read your question, do you really think they're gonna stick it up here? Get ****ing real!

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

I belive that the document is of public interest and why not have it available in a public forum.

So ask the council for it. Or submit a FOI request. And if you get it, then since you're so convinced it should be published, then publish it here yourself. But you're living on cloud cuckoo land if you think asking here is the right way to go about getting it!

Mr_Hat

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

Has anyone seen a copy of the 30 YEAR Drogheda TOLL contract ?

This has to be a piss take. There is no way the real Ken O Heillgh could be so dense that he needs to ask Boards for help. Why not ask the members of the council who helped agree it, or just submit a FOI request. This cant possibly be Ken O Heillgh. Did Kens son ever confirm that the poster is indeed his dad?

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

locum-motion wrote: »

Just because on of the 'P's stands for 'Public', it doesn't neccessarily follow that any Joe Soap that wants to has the right to see the contract. The public's interest is represented by one or more of the parties to the contract ie. the NRA, the Co. Councils or whoever.

The whoever you mentioned is Joe Soap as you call him.




And, as I asked before, if someone who is a party to the contract happens to read your question, do you really think they're gonna stick it up here? Get ****ing real!
I restate the point I made in my previous post 'I merely enquired if anyone had sight of the contract as many on the Boards forum appear to be well informed on the operation of the Drogheda Toll and maybe just maybe they came across the elusive contract document'. ie Joe Soap.


So ask the council for it. Or submit a FOI request. !

I have requested a copy from a number of interested parties but to no avail. I will act upon your advice and submitt an FOI but I am minful of the cost factor.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Mr_Hat wrote: »

This has to be a piss take. There is no way the real Ken O Heillgh could be so dense that he needs to ask Boards for help. Why not ask the members of the council who helped agree it, or just submit a FOI request.

Ref: previous post 'Correction I merely enquired if anyone had sight of the contract as many on the Boards forum appear to be well informed on the operation of the Drogheda Toll and maybe just maybe they came across the elusive contract document. Please note the change in font is simply down to cut and paste'.

I would respectively suggest that you read my replies agree or disagree that is your entitlement but please leave out the derogatory name calling..

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

locum-motion wrote: »

Just because on of the 'P's stands for 'Public', it doesn't neccessarily follow that any Joe Soap that wants to has the right to see the contract. The public's interest is represented by one or more of the parties to the contract ie. the NRA, the Co. Councils or whoever.

The whoever you mentioned is Joe Soap as you call him.

locum-motion wrote: »

And, as I asked before, if someone who is a party to the contract happens to read your question, do you really think they're gonna stick it up here? Get ****ing real!!

I restate the point I made in my previous post 'I merely enquired if anyone had sight of the contract as many on the Boards forum appear to be well informed on the operation of the Drogheda Toll and maybe just maybe they came across the elusive contract document'. ie Joe Soap.

locum-motion wrote: »

So ask the council for it. Or submit a FOI request.

I have requested a copy from a number of interested parties but to no avail. I will act upon your advice and submit an FOI but I am mindful of the cost factor.


Please Note: Apologies for the layout errors in previous post.

locum-motion

Cllr:
If I were you, I'd just drop this whole thing quietly.
Every time you post here, you just make yourself look less intelligent than the previous time.

Mr_Hat

locum-motion wrote: »

Cllr:
If I were you, I'd just drop this whole thing quietly.
Every time you post here, you just make yourself look less intelligent than the previous time.

It cant be him, I might not like the mans populist and pie in the sky politics. But he couldn't possible the sort of idiotic deluded buffoon the poster is trying to portray the Cllr as. He just couldn't be

Mr_Hat

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

I have requested a copy from a number of interested parties but to no avail. I will act upon your advice and submitt an FOI but I am minful of the cost factor.

Why? Your going to expense it anyway.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

Mr_Hat wrote: »

Why? Your going to expense it anyway.

I do not claim nor can I claim such expenses. Since you raised the question I have already redirected my 2012 Conference Allowance which will see the money donated to charities. This is the practice I have used for such money since first elected.

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh

The Toll charges have increased again on New Year’s Day and it will encourage more HGV’S to divert from the M1 Tolled Drogheda bypass through the local road networks.
Having spoken to a number of locals they stated that they cannot afford to use the ramp TOLLS for regular use which forces a significant number of vehicles down byroads and this knock on effect increases the risk of accidents.
The following are the TOLLS demanded on the Donore Road Ramp Toll
• 1 Euro………..Motorbike
• 1.80 Euro …..Car
• 3.30 Euro……Van
• 4.60 Euro……3.5 Ton (1 & 2axel)
• 5.90 Euro……3.5 Ton (3axel)

Please add your signature to the Petition at www.makedroghedatollfree.ie for the removal of the ramp TOLLS on the Donore Road

P. Breathnach

Cllr. Ken O Heiligh wrote: »

...
Please add your signature to the Petition at www.makedroghedatollfree.ie for the removal of the ramp TOLLS on the Donore Road

I use the Drogheda bypass, and pay the toll. I am paying for time-saving and the greater safety of travelling on a road that is designed and managed for fast traffic.

I don't want that compromised by people wanting to use the M1 as a local road.

MugMugs

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I use the Drogheda bypass, and pay the toll. I am paying for time-saving and the greater safety of travelling on a road that is designed and managed for fast traffic.

I don't want that compromised by people wanting to use the M1 as a local road.

I come off at Drogheda North and cut through Mell onto the Donore road every morning. That toll congests Drogheda with my car twice a day.

locum-motion

MugMugs wrote: »

I come off at Drogheda North and cut through Mell onto the Donore road every morning. That toll congests Drogheda with my car twice a day.

If you choose to leave the motorway to avoid the toll, then it's not the toll that causes the congestion, but YOU!

MugMugs

locum-motion wrote: »

If you choose to leave the motorway to avoid the toll, then it's not the toll that causes the congestion, but YOU!

Well it's my unwillingness to pay that Toll.

1.80 x 2 x 5 x 48 = €864

I'll take a few traffic lights for that kind of cash a year.

If the Toll was not there at least on the Southbound Donore Road part, I'd take that off ramp and avoid Drogheda. Coming back would be okay, as I could just stay on the N2 to Dunleer and jump back onto the M1.