Is there a staircase inside the Wellington Monument in the Phoenix Park?

Stripey Cat

I asked this on another part of the board, but got sent here.

I think I remember being told about a staircase when I was a child, but maybe it was just a story.


Anyone know?

F5MWG

A Dublin legend suggests that a fund-raising dinner was held in the vault under the pillar in 1820, after which the vault was sealed up, leaving the dining tables and chairs behind. Several weeks later it was noticed that a butler had not been seen since the dinner, and it was assumed that he had drunk too much wine and remained unconscious and unnoticed behind a screen while the room was being sealed.

Stripey Cat

On the wikipedia discussion page, a door is mentioned. So I am not the only one.

Victor

I strongly think not. Where would this stairs lead? http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=swrc76gg785p&lvl=19.159524646442893&dir=91.3590438615547&sty=b&form=LMLTCC

There was a stairs and viewing platform in Nelson's Pillar.

Gavin "shels"

Weird fact, it's actually called the Wellington Testimonial because it was bulit when he was still alive therefore not a Monument as such. It got me bonus points in a table quiz once!:D

Stripey Cat

Victor wrote: »

Where would this stairs lead?

I think I had in mind some sort of staircase leading to the top, with small holes to look out of.

A Disgrace

I have heard that it is hollow, and could well have an inner room. I also heard that an entrance (via tunnel) exists somewhere within 100 metres.. then again it could just be a monument. Opening it up to find out shouldn't be a big deal, and if urban legend is correct and there's a body down there, surely it would have been checked by now?

evolving_doors

Gavin shels wrote: »

Weird fact, it's actually called the Wellington Testimonial because it was bulit when he was still alive therefore not a Monument as such. It got me bonus points in a table quiz once!:D

It was built when he was alive but was it completed before his death?
I think there was a debate about the Wellington Monument/Testimonial on another boards thread somewhere...someone said they ran out of money when he was alive so it couldn't be completed till after his death.... I wouldn't even bother contesting that one at a table quiz though...

Flukey

Gavin shels wrote: »

Weird fact, it's actually called the Wellington Testimonial because it was bulit when he was still alive therefore not a Monument as such. It got me bonus points in a table quiz once!:D

It got me a bit of abuse for setting that question in a table quiz once. Most people will tell you it is the "Monument" and when they find out it is the "Testimonial" they will argue fervently against, so it is one of those great questions. So, seeing as there is no Wellington Monument in Dublin, then the answer to the opening question has to be no.

Stripey Cat

Flukey wrote: »

So, seeing as there is no Wellington Monument in Dublin, then the answer to the opening question has to be no.

Good Point, well made.

HellFireClub

I remember hearing many times that the IRA many years ago attempted to blow up the Wellington Monument by placing a large amount of explosives in the railway tunnel that runs directly under the monument. There is a railway tunnel running directly under the monument/testimonial, and I recall being told that the IRA were intercepted while trying to blow up the structure years ago, by placing explosives in the railway tunnel (this tunnel is still used today by Irish Rail), in an attempt to undermine the structure and cause it to collapse.

FreudianSlippers

Armelodie wrote: »

It was built when he was alive but was it completed before his death?
I think there was a debate about the Wellington Monument/Testimonial on another boards thread somewhere...someone said they ran out of money when he was alive so it couldn't be completed till after his death.... I wouldn't even bother contesting that one at a table quiz though...

I would have to agree with you there. It is technically both a monument and a testimonial since it was started before and completed after his death.

Stripey Cat

A railway underneath it? Still in use? The hey what now?

ANXIOUS

Stripey Cat wrote: »

A railway underneath it? Still in use? The hey what now?

Yeah, there is a working railroad that runs underneath the park. It connects it up to connelly. Look at an os map. I cant link it on my phone.

FreudianSlippers

Stripey Cat wrote: »

A railway underneath it? Still in use? The hey what now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liffey_Bridge_(Phoenix_Park_Tunnel)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67104730&postcount=156 (pics)

Stripey Cat

Well, if there is a tunnel underneath it, surely it's not too far fetched to imagine a staircase inside it?

I mean, is it supposed to be hollow inside it? It can't be solid stone can it?

Sunnyisland

Forgot about that tunnel, went through it once going to Galway :-)

Victor

The tunnel doesn't go under the monument: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,712946,734566,7,10

Stripey Cat wrote: »

It can't be solid stone can it?

Of course it can. Remember it dates from before the widespread use of iron in buildings and from before the steel came into common use.

A Disgrace

Victor wrote: »

The tunnel doesn't go under the monument: http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,712946,734566,7,10Of course it can. Remember it dates from before the widespread use of iron in buildings and from before the steel came into common use.

So if it was hollow, it would have needed iron supports?

I would have imagined it would be cheaper to have a hollow base, but the pre-steel agrgument could convince me otherwise..

I think the fact that they didn't even leave a service door or whatever, but went to the lengths of building an interior (with staircase) would convince me there's nothing under there...

Unless it was built as a secret bunker, accessed only by some even more secret tunnels!!

Stripey Cat

A Disgrace wrote: »

I think the fact that they didn't even leave a service door or whatever, but went to the lengths of building an interior (with staircase) would convince me there's nothing under there...

There are some strange markings on the base, that might be the remains of a balustrade or something being removed.

On the ledge above the bronze reliefs there is an area which doesn't seem to have weathered in the same way as the rest, and has a long light coloured stone above it. It certainly looks like the shape of a doorway.

Sunnyisland

A Disgrace wrote: »

Unless it was built as a secret bunker, accessed only by some even more secret tunnels!!

;) Which are connected up to the now American ambassador's residence,which was formerly the prominent Chief Secretaries house and one of its former occupiers was Sir Arthur Wellesley, later to become the Duke of Wellington.;):rolleyes:

Which brings me back to my other post in this forum about mobile phones in the phoeno,there are dark & strange things going on over there,i tell you not;)

fryup

to be honest with you, i'm surprised that it was never blown up

Esel

I know for a FACT that a couple of guys planned to climb it in the seventies and plant a wellie on top of the lightning rod. Never got off the ground....

Mellor

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I would have to agree with you there. It is technically both a monument and a testimonial since it was started before and completed after his death.

It was concieved, designed and building as a tribute to a living Wellington, and is therefore a strictly speaking a testimonial. But monument its all that wrong. I always felt Obelisk was a far better name as its the tallest Obelisk in europe.


As for the hidden staircase, I think I can resolve that debate.
There is another Wellington Monument, located in Somerset - England, built to celebrate the victory at Waterloo. It was started in the same year as the Dublin Obelisk, 1917, and finished 7 years earlier in 1854.
It is over 9m shorter, built of rougher stone, has a smaller base, and is basically less impressive. But the Somerset monument has an internal stairs, one that rises up to a viewing platform. Which is obviously where the myth regarding the Dublin obelisk originated.

The hole from which you look out can be view in this photo.

Tabnabs

Victor wrote: »

]Of course it can. Remember it dates from before the widespread use of iron in buildings and from before the steel came into common use.

it also pre-dates the invention of tower cranes and sky hooks...

When you consider the construction method and the cost of cut stone, it must beyond doubt be a hollow structure to reduce cost, labour and weight on the foundations. Even if they were just workman's stairs, roughly hewn or timber, it would have had some sort of access for the labourers and craftsmen to raise the structure.

Hollow towers in Ireland have been around since the Viking times after all.

BeerNut

Tabnabs wrote: »

it would have had some sort of access for the labourers and craftsmen to raise the structure.

Scaffolding?

Tabnabs

According to these guys, not invented (in the UK) yet...

BeerNut

Tabnabs wrote: »

According to these guys, not invented (in the UK) yet...

I'm not seeing where they say that.

How do you think they got the gargoyles onto those medieval cathedrals? Scaffolding.

Mellor

Tabnabs wrote: »

it also pre-dates the invention of tower cranes and sky hooks...

When you consider the construction method and the cost of cut stone, it must beyond doubt be a hollow structure to reduce cost, labour and weight on the foundations. Even if they were just workman's stairs, roughly hewn or timber, it would have had some sort of access for the labourers and craftsmen to raise the structure.

Hollow towers in Ireland have been around since the Viking times after all.

Don't be ridiculous. It my no means HAS to be hollow. Solid Obelisks have been built since ancient Egyptian and roman times.
There is a solid obelisk 45m tall originally erected c.3,500 years ago that is still standing today. In fact, a solid structure would be considerable easier to build.

Erecting the Obelisk in the pheonix park was not a challenge for builders of the 19th century.

Tabnabs wrote: »

According to these guys, not invented (in the UK) yet...

Again, I have no clue what you are talking about here. In fact the first picture is labelled as scaffolding in the victorian era, which is exactly when the obelisk was erected.
Timber scaffolding has existed for thousands of years. Again, back to the romans, greeks and egyptians
I don't see what makes you think it didn't yet exist. If you are referring to the 1909 date mentioned, that was the patent of a particular device patented for scaffolding, not the invention of scaffolding.

I thought my post above clarified where the stairs myth came from.

Hermy

Mellor wrote: »

It was started in the same year as the Dublin Obelisk, 1917, and finished 7 years earlier in 1854.

BeerNut

Mellor wrote: »

Solid Obelisks have been built since ancient Egyptian and roman times.
There is a solid obelisk 45m tall originally erected c.3,500 years ago that is still standing today.

In fairness, the Egyptians carved them in one piece and then just hiked them up. But yeah, scaffolding is one of those obvious inventions that's been around forever.

Good find on the Somerset obelisk, btw. Very interesting.