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Planning Blackmail/Extortion
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Perhaps you didn't phrase this properly or perhaps I am reading it wrong but I have never heard of anyone object to an application for the sole purpose of being able to appeal the decision if they dont find it favourable. The vast majority of people object/appeal because they have genuine concerns.I have been informed that the sole purpose of the third party making a submission is so they can appeal the planning decision if it is approved.
Thats a very speculative comment. Have you been asked for money?but I have also been told by numerous people that the only reason they are objecting is to extort substantial money from me and in return they will withdraw their objection.
At €220 a pop to appeal to ABP I find this a bit hard to believe. Are you suggesting that these people are basically some type of serial "blackmailers"?Apparently these people have done this numerous times before, they get paid off and they withdraw their appeal to An Board Pleanála.
Dont pay them if thats the case. Stand by your principles and your wallet.Firstly, I have serious issue with paying them off because it's outright wrong and because I can't afford it.
This type of situation has nothing to do with corruption. There is planning legislation in force and part of that legislation provides for third party objections and appeals.Finally, how in this day and age, especially with all the problems that this country has had in the past with planning corruption, is this allowed to happen?
I have never come across the type of scenario that you have described. You cant and I repeat CANT prevent people from exercising their legal entitlements.What I would like to know is:
[*]Has anyone had a similar situation like this before?
[*]Any idea how I could prevent this from happening?
[*]Are there any law's in planning or otherwise that I can use to help me here?
The same laws are there both for you and your objector. Use them wisely.0 -
Perhaps you didn't phrase this properly or perhaps I am reading it wrong but I have never heard of anyone object to an application for the sole purpose of being able to appeal the decision if they dont find it favourable. The vast majority of people object/appeal because they have genuine concerns.
Sorry your right, I didn't make this clear. The reason that this person made a submission is solely so they can lodge an appeal to an Board Pleanála, if or when the planning is approved. I know this because their submission doesn't make any planning sense/objections/views. It's as almost as if they are making a mockery of the entire process because the submission they have submitted is frivolous to say the least.
Thats a very speculative comment. Have you been asked for money?
Again, you are right, this is speculative. I have not been directly asked for money as of yet but I am expecting to be asked if or when the planning is approved, and the reason I am posting this topic here is to find out what I can do if this does actually happen. I feel this is an appropriate action to take as I am inexperienced in these situations. Please note I have not mentioned any name/places in this topic.
At €220 a pop to appeal to ABP I find this a bit hard to believe. Are you suggesting that these people are basically some type of serial "blackmailers"?
I would have found this hard to believe myself, but if you think about it, €220 is not very much if you can extort several thousands from the applicant in each case. In fact if it was legitimate, it would be a great business. Not a business however I would be a big fan of.
Dont pay them if thats the case. Stand by your principles and your wallet. Again I agree, but I will loose out by 6 months if I do this. Do you think that this is fair that I have to suffer by doing right? Some people will say yes, you will get nowhere in this world without paying your way, but I feel totally wronged in this situation.
This type of situation has nothing to do with corruption. There is planning legislation in force and part of that legislation provides for third party objections and appeals.
I have a slight problem with your summation here. I have no issue with a third party object/appeal. If fact I am entirely in favour with it. The problem I have is when a third party objects for the sole purpose of extorting money/gift/favours etc. Do you think the same?
I have never come across the type of scenario that you have described. You cant and I repeat CANT prevent people from exercising their legal entitlements. You are right, and this is exactly my point. People are legally entitled to extort money from other people in this way and it is wrong! I don't want to prevent anyone form their legal entitlement here(As in a genuine objection), I just want to exercise what I feel is my own legal entitlement!
The same laws are there both for you and your objector. Use them wisely. I am trying to use them wisely, but the reason I posted this here is to find out how I can use them wisely. Thank you for your input.0 -
OP you have removed the bulk of your Opening Post which means the following posts no longer make sense with out the full context of the post they were printed under. Please explain this as the tag legal does not explain it...People are legally entitled to extort money from other people in this way and it is wrong!
Extortion is not legal and if you have any evidence of it happening you should go to the Gardai straight away.
Part 6 (VI) of the Planning and Development Act 2000, deals with An Bord Pleanala, Chapter 1 being the establishment and set up of the Board itself, Chapter 2 being concerned with the organisation and staffing of the Board, Chapter 3 is the area of interest to you as it deals with the appeals procedure and in particular Section 138, which deals specifically with Board may dismiss appeals or referrals if vexatious, etc.
I know of cases where the Bord have exercised those powers in the past. If you truely feel what you have said first is the case, you can get a professional to help you make a submission to An Bord Pleanala, in the event of an appeal by this objector, outlining your concerns and the Bord will deal with it from there. DO NOT PAY THE OBJECTOR it may make you complicit in a crime.0 -
4fingers,
Have you someone acting on you behalf? By that I mean someone WELL versed in the Planning Processes and all that goes with it?
We have all come up against the serial objector, some valid and some off the wall but for the most part, where the objection appears not to be relevant, most experienced agents will be able to spot a mile off and, once again, from experience be more than capable of submitting a detailed response to the appeal, containing relevant planning references from CDP's etc to support the appeal response. By the way, I would not take it that, even if granted by the CC that ABP will concur. It's a new application as far as they are concerned..
As repeated above, the Planning Act is there for all so, well within their rights to do as they do. There is nothing you can do to stop them, bar bide your time if it goes to that. No "crime" committed here, so far as no request/demand for financial consideration made so nothing you can do.. At the end of the day ABP are not fools..
If it was Billy down the pub who told you these stories of monetary demands by the individual I would tread VERY carefully as Billy is not always right, btw...0 -
No "crime" committed here, so far as no request/demand for financial consideration made so nothing you can do.. At the end of the day ABP are not fools..
If it was Billy down the pub who told you these stories of monetary demands by the individual I would tread VERY carefully as Billy is not always right, btw...
Very well said rayjdav, I agree fully.
Everyone has a right to protect their interest and make a genunine objection to a planning application. Each objection must be based solely on planning law.
Your local Planner & ABP are not fools, they can spot a vexatious objection a million miles away and will dismiss it accordingly.0 -
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4fingers,
Have you someone acting on you behalf? By that I mean someone WELL versed in the Planning Processes and all that goes with it?
Yes I have an engineering company here in Carlow acting on my behalf who are very familiar with the planning process.We have all come up against the serial objector, some valid and some off the wall but for the most part, where the objection appears not to be relevant, most experienced agents will be able to spot a mile off and, once again, from experience be more than capable of submitting a detailed response to the appeal, containing relevant planning references from CDP's etc to support the appeal response. By the way, I would not take it that, even if granted by the CC that ABP will concur. It's a new application as far as they are concerned..
As repeated above, the Planning Act is there for all so, well within their rights to do as they do. There is nothing you can do to stop them, bar bide your time if it goes to that. No "crime" committed here, so far as no request/demand for financial consideration made so nothing you can do.. At the end of the day ABP are not fools.
If it was Billy down the pub who told you these stories of monetary demands by the individual I would tread VERY carefully as Billy is not always right, btw...
I totally agree with all you have said, no crime has been committed yet, I am only trying to be prepared if it does happen. Surely you can understand that.
And no it was not Billy bob down the pub, it was numerous other business owners in the area that have had encounters with this issue before. I just don't want to take it lying down like they had to.
I'm told Billy bob is rarely wrong anyway!!Everyone has a right to protect their interest and make a genunine objection to a planning application. Each objection must be based solely on planning law.
As I said above, I have no issue whatsoever with a genuine objection and I'm not trying to prevent someone from making a genuine objection.Your local Planner & ABP are not fools, they can spot a vexatious objection a million miles away and will dismiss it accordingly.
I'm sure the local planner & ABP are not fools. The local council here are very much aware of these serial objectors but there is no procedure for dismissing vexatious or frivolous submissions made on a planning application. Yes they can ignore it while coming to a decision but the submission still stands for the objector to make an appeal to ABP regardless how vexatious or frivolous it is.
As for ABP, according to them, they will only dismiss a vexatious or frivolous appeal after the statutory 18 week period. So the objector in this case still achieves their goal.
I'm not sure where to go from here, I guess it's just a wait and see approach.0 -
As for ABP, according to them, they will only dismiss a vexatious or frivolous appeal after the statutory 18 week period. So the objector in this case still achieves their goal.
I'm not sure where to go from here, I guess it's just a wait and see approach.
The objector wont achieve his goal if you dont pay him infact he will be out money i know you will have to wait your 18 weeks but at least you know that you did everything above board0 -
Since the Opening Post was so heavily modified some of the following posts no longer made sense and had to be deleted.
Since muffler quoted a substantial portion of the Opening Post the posts following this address the issue. The thread has now been tidied up.
Thread Locked.0
This discussion has been closed.
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