Power Meter from US - import duties etc...

Home:Ballyhoura

Hey guys,

I know there is a massive thread in the consumer forum about Import Duty and VAT related inquiries, but I am just wondering what your experiences of buying bike parts from the US has been in the past while and how strict are they these days, how often are people caught?

Say I spent 1000 USD it would be 700 euro or 1000 euro if I had to pay the appropriate duties. What do ye reckon the chances are, say for a crankset from ebay worth this amount? I know it is difficult to say for certain, but hoping to see if there is any possibility it might slip through!

Cheers,
Thanks in advance!

Beasty

No personal experience, but bear in mind a couple of things:

1. The value of the goods should be declared on the package; and
2. If that value is understated that not only constitues tax evasion (and you could be held responsible yourself if you "collude" with the retailer on this), but would probably negate any insurance should anything happen to the package in transit

Another general point - I know boardsies are generally "anonymous", but I would not go shouting off the rooftops if I had managed to bring a particularly high value item into the country without VAT and duties (I certainly haven't but then again it would be quite easy for Custome to work out who I am if they wanted to!)


(....just saying...;))

blorg

Your chances are higher with USPS. Courier companies very little chance.

EDIT: just to clarify, as it could be taken two ways: USPS packages are less likely to be stopped.

ROK ON

Last year I bought some jerseys and shorts from the US. Shipping was registered and value in USD was listed on the package.

I was charged three charges, and they were all at an exchange rate of 1:1 which was obviously incorrect. The charges were VAT, some kind of imPort duty and an admin fee (30notes).

I appealed but was only successful in getting the exchange rate changed. Because of this gear that cost around €140 ended up costing over €200. I only appealed the admin fee plus the incorrect fx rate, not the tax. It took weeks to get an agreement.

Customs were a nightmare to deal with. The package was sitting in my local post office but it was them I had to pay. However the agreement on the fx rate was not relayed to them so we had to go over the entire thing again.
Disaster.
I wasnt trying to evade tax authorities. I simply saw gear I wanted that couldnt be got in EU.

I will never again purchase from US. Bad luck maybe but too much hassle.

Diarmuid

I'd factor the import duties into your budget. If the purchase still makes good sense after that, then go for it. You could get lucky and end up with a few more quid in your pocket.
Agree with what blorg said.
As regards to colluding with the seller to ensure a lower price is declared on the package, we live in a real world where customs could not prove or wouldn't bother trying to prove your part in it. They'd just hit you with the bill.

Lumen

Beasty wrote: »

Another general point - I know boardsies are generally "anonymous", but I would not go shouting off the rooftops if I had managed to bring a particularly high value item into the country without VAT and duties (I certainly haven't but then again it would be quite easy for Custome to work out who I am if they wanted to!)

TPFKAET* looked into this last year, and came to the conclusion that there was no mechanism for paying duties and VAT that had not been levied by customs on the way in.

So as long as you don't intentionally act to evade these charges (e.g. by colluding with the seller to mark them down in price or new goods as used), there is no problem stating the outcome on a public forum.

However, neither TPFKAET nor I are tax lawyers, so what would we know.

I don't think I was charged duty or VAT on my crabon wheels last year (only a €30ish admin fee). The goods came via courier and were clearly marked.

ISTR that duty on bike parts is 4.7%, and that must be compounded with Irish VAT and applied to the shipping-inclusive price.

Based on my positive experience (also with ordering from DealExtreme and for various gadgets over the years) I would happily order from the US or elsewhere outside the EU, but never budget to avoid the extra charges - that's a brucey bonus if it happens.

* The Poster Formerly Known As El Tonto

Beasty

Diarmuid wrote: »

As regards to colluding with the seller to ensure a lower price is declared on the package, we live in a real world where customs could not prove or wouldn't bother trying to prove your part in it. They'd just hit you with the bill.

I was not directing those comments at H:B directly, but wanted to make it clear to anyone reading this thread (and it's also covered in the thread H:B linked to) that it would constitute tax evasion on the part of the person importing the goods if they did do this. What may or may not happen in practice is a separate point, but it's a Site-wide rule that posters must not

post Material that promotes or encourages illegal activity

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

TPFKAET* looked into this last year, and came to the conclusion that there was no mechanism for paying duties and VAT that had not been levied by customs on the way in.

So as long as you don't intentionally act to evade these charges (e.g. by colluding with the seller to mark them down in price or new goods as used), there is no problem stating the outcome on a public forum.

However, neither TPFKAET nor I are tax lawyers, so what would we know.

The only further point I would make is that there is nothing to prevent Customs coming back to someone at a later date to collect the tax should they wish to. Whether they would do it in practice is a different matter, but the legal liability remains

blorg

Saying it is unlikely that you would be prosecuted should the seller mis-declare is not encouraging anything, it is stating a fact. Customs if they think there is mis-declaration will make their own assessment and charge you the money, not with tax evasion. You may be asked to support the declared price with a receipt if they don't believe it.

People admit not using cycle lanes and we have discussed the (un)likelihood of prosecution. Same thing. There are countless other examples here and elsewhere on boards.

I think that rule is to cover more egregious cases of illegal activities TBH. I think you need to think 'how could this impact boards' when applying it.

No problem with your pointing out deliberate collusion on the declaration is tax evasion of course. That is also a fact. As long as we can have the discussion.

Beasty

I think posters are mis-interpreting my posts here. I am saying that if you collude with a seller to misdeclare value that is tax evasion, and the encouragement of such activity on boards is not permitted. I am not saying anyone has encouraged such activity so far in this thread, but my earlier thread was simply trying to cover off all the bases

blorg

I think this is an example of unnecessary, heavy handed, pre-emptive moderation.

No problem with your pointing out in a non-moderator role that it would be tax evasion and us having a discussion on that. But no need to start dragging boards rules into the discussion at this stage IMO.

Khannie

blorg wrote: »

I think this is an example of unnecessary, heavy handed, pre-emptive moderation.

This is wrong on two fronts. Firstly, there's nothing heavy handed in here in the slightest. It's all very gentle. Your post is an example of commenting in-thread about moderation though, which is not allowed. Secondly, and let's not kid ourselves here, this is partly a thread about minimising cost by avoiding paying duties or "getting caught" as the OP puts it. Nobody likes paying duties. Discussing the best ways of importing goods so that you're unlikely to get stung isn't exactly kosher though.

Let's get back to the topic at hand please folks.

doozerie

I've bought a bunch of stuff from the US in the past and it really is a lottery as to whether you get hit with tax plus import duty (plus administration fee). I've dealt with about four different local shipping/delivery agents as far as I can recall and not one of them has *never* charged me, and most of them have always charged me. You have to assume that you will be charged and budget based on that, as already said. The administration fee varied by quite a bit between the different delivery agents - this is from distant memory again but I think the fees ranged from about 5euro to about 25euro.

It's the topic of a whole other rant but the means of them collecting the charges from you can be a right pain in the neck. With at least one company I've had to pay cash to the delivery guy, which isn't the worst option if you get a receipt and at least the package is delivered to your door. With An Post I've had to go to the local sorting office to pay and collect package, which is a hassle (they rang me to inform me it was there, as far as I can remember, which was helpful). With another company they sent me a postcard which referred me to a web URL where I had to go to approve delivery of the package before they delivered it to me (can't remember but think I paid via the website too) - if you don't receive the postcard I don't know what happens but the package certainly isn't handed over until the fees are paid. Yet another company (UPS, I think) invoices you some time after the delivery, weeks later in some of my cases, which came as a bit of surprise to me the first time as I'd thought the whole thing was done and dusted once they'd handed the delivery over to me.

Gripes aside though I would buy from the US again. Once you add in the shipping cost, tax, import duty, and likely administration fee, some things are still significantly cheaper from the US or simply not available here at all.

munsterleinster

I've brought a lot of stuff in from the US.

You're liable to pay Duty and then VAT on the full invoice amount. This includes shipping & insurance.

Recently more and more shops are refusing to doctor the invoice for tax reasons.

The Duty amount is chosen depending on the product. I've found it good to call the office in Nenagh and ask them for an approrpiate tarif code which you reference on the package to speed things up and prevent you getting overcharged.
The guys in Nenagh can be helpful if there is ambiguity on the description and the item can fall in a number of categories with different tax charges.

You could push your luck a bit and see if it can fall into another lower duty category to save a few %

Either way you're still going to get hammered with VAT which will make up most of the charge.

FED EX and UPS always seem to automatically charge and require payment at delivery plus a handling fee. I've been lucky with USPS quite a few times where the value was declared and was not charged.

As said by others, expect to pay the full amount and you're quids in if it's not charged.

pprendeville

I bought a few torque wrenches few weeks back from States for under 100. No duties. Delivery via USPS.