to be fluent in a language?

scruff321

What does it actually mean to be fluent in a language? When can one say there fluent? I speak Spanish very well, ive lived in Chile over 5 months now, i "spoke" Spanish before i came here but not great.Now i speak very fluidly, i can converse about nearly anything (obviously with with something thats complex and i havent talked about before will be a bit slower)and i have the slang down, working on an accent from here aswell! but while i feel im advanced i dont think i can call myself fluent as i feel i can improve more. Thoughts?

It means different things to different people. Some people say it's sounding like a native or being 'able to talk about anything without hesitating or making a mistake', which I reckon is BS. Even native speakers can't manage that. I think fluency is being able to hold a conversation on most topics in the target language, without the listener having to make an effort to understand you because you make too many mistakes or have a strong accent/bad pronunciation. I would definitely say you were fluent. Being fluent doesn't mean you don't have a lot more to learn. You can still work on your accuracy and pronunciation. And remember, the hard part is maintaining your fluency. It's incredibly easily to forgot a language when you're not using it every day.

scruff321

Joe Mysterious Uniform wrote: »

It means different things to different people. Some people say it's sounding like a native or being 'able to talk about anything without hesitating or making a mistake', which I reckon is BS. Even native speakers can't manage that. I think fluency is being able to hold a conversation on most topics in the target language, without the listener having to make an effort to understand you because you make too many mistakes or have a strong accent/bad pronunciation. I would definitely say you were fluent. Being fluent doesn't mean you don't have a lot more to learn. You can still work on your accuracy and pronunciation. And remember, the hard part is maintaining your fluency. It's incredibly easily to forgot a language when you're not using it every day.

Very logical answer.

That would be one thing id be afraid of if/when i moved home or to another country, forgetting what i have worked so hard to achieve!:mad:

John C

As an Irish Person in Germany I use fluency in German in this post.

Language fluency in German has two meanings:
Informally: a high level of German language proficiency. He can
read the newspaper, watch television and converse in German.
However he can be informally fluent and still make many
grammatical mistakes, uses words out of context and hesitates a lot in speaking.

Narrowly: fluid German language use and not broken German.
In this narrow definition of fluency a person with many grammatical mistakes,
who often uses German words out of context and hesitates a lot in speaking
is not fluent.


There are fluent German language users, who have low vocabularies
and inaccurate word use. Some have not learnt to write in German.


Fluency in German has four components:

Comprehension
The skill of following and understanding German.

Speaking
The skill of speaking German and being understood by German speakers.

Reading
The skill of easily reading and understanding written German.

Writing
The skill of formulating written texts in German.

Here is a summary of one test of my German fluency.
Comprehension: Two teachers asked me prepared questions
about current affairs in Bavaria

Speaking and being understood: I read aloud a 300 word article.

Reading and understanding: I had only two minutes to silently read a
400 word article. They asked about its theme its and main points.

Writing: Writing a six page essay in German.

deirdremf

John C wrote: »

As an Irish Person in Germany I use fluency in German in this post.
.......
Here is a summary of one test of my German fluency.
Comprehension: Two teachers asked me prepared questions
about current affairs in Bavaria

Speaking and being understood: I read aloud a 300 word article.

Reading and understanding: I had only two minutes to silently read a
400 word article. They asked about its theme its and main points.

Writing: Writing a six page essay in German.

I think you're way over the top here.
There are huge numbers of German people who could not meet those criteria - just as there are huge numbers of people in every country who could not meet those criteria for their native language/mother tongue.

Aard

I think fluency means that you're able to verbalise your thoughts and have others understand them. That way a 10 year old can be fluent, just like a 50 year old can be. They clearly have a huge difference in vocabulary and complex sentence structure -- but the 10 year old is unlikely to need anything that complicated. His speech gets more complex as his thoughts do.

But if that 50 year old takes up Swahili, suddenly he can't verbalise his thoughts as he's used to. He has to rephrase things, use more general terms, sacrifice complexity for the sake of not having to stumble looking for the right words. Eventually though, he'll learn the nuances of the new language and will be comfortable using it to explain what's going on in his head.

Comprehension of language doesn't have as much importance as being understood does wrt the term "fluency". As alluded to above, there are many perfectly fluent English speakers who couldn't understand much of the Six-One news. I'd imagine in a similar vein that Anne Doyle mightn't understand a lot of what they would say among themselves.

John C's fluency examination was testing a narrow meaning of fluency in a specific socio-economic context. Which is probablly entirely appropriate, given that it was probably designed to please a future employer.

czrewor

Fluent just means, that you have large vocabulary, good writing, listening and speaking skills, can communicate effectively in everyday situations. Also fluent means that you are on your way to becoming a pro haha. There is a difference between fluent and proficiency though, proficiency means you have a certificate to back up your skills and knowledge on certain level. Proficiency would mean you could study the at college in the native country in the native language like how the IELT's exam works kind of.

deirdremf

czrewor wrote: »

Fluent just means, that you have large vocabulary, good writing, listening and speaking skills, can communicate effectively in everyday situations. Also fluent means that you are on your way to becoming a pro haha. There is a difference between fluent and proficiency though, proficiency means you have a certificate to back up your skills and knowledge on certain level. Proficiency would mean you could study the at college in the native country in the native language like how the IELT's exam works kind of.

I can't say I agree that it has anything to do with writing skills, in my opinion it has to do with speech.
You can also be very fluent, but with dreadful grammar, accent or pronunciation.
It's not the same as having native or near native ability - I would agree with your statement about communicating effectively in everyday situations. For me that is the best general definition.