BJJ Submission Question

Martin Walker

Today i was at an open mat session at a local BJJ gym.
While rolling with a guy i managed to sink in a Darce Choke from side mount. (Where your opponent shrimps towards you looking for an underhook)
After the roll i was sitting resting having a drink and a young lad asked me to show him how i done it. So i done what anyone would do and showed him. Now when i went through it with his partner the lad didnt tap. He said it was sore but no risk of sleeping. I stopped thinking that maybe i was doing it wrong and sat up to go through it slowly but again nothing. I called another lad over and done it and he tapped right away. I got another guy to do it on me and the same again i tapped. This has completley baffled me. Im no Jitz man myself ive only ever learnt what i can in MMA classes so i need some help here.
Is it out of the ordinary for something to "work" on someone and not "work" on someone else? Does Physique play a part in this kind of submission?
Thanks for any insight.
Marty

arybvtcw0eolkf

Martin Walker wrote: »

Is it out of the ordinary for something to "work" on someone and not "work" on someone else? Does Physique play a part in this kind of submission?
Thanks for any insight.
Marty

No its not out of the ordinary at all, in fact its very common.

Some people are just very hard to choke, even when the choke/strangle is in theory 'perfect'.

An example from the other night in Rush Fight Academy..

I was rolling with a 15yr old lad, he must have been all of 50kgs soaking wet.

I had a very deep, tight collar choke sunk in and there was no way the lad was tapping or showing any signs of distress.

Now I'm 120kgs and wasn't holding a whole lot back, but it got to a point where I was going to have to put 100% effort into this lad in the hope he'd tap and there was no way I was going to do it.

Talking to Paul (coach) about it and he was laughingly telling me that that lad is next to impossible to choke.

As your a beginner what I'd recommend with choke's and joint locks is if your unsure ask the coach.

cowzerp

The point big mak is making is he was doing it to several lads with no problem and with 1 it just was not working, there is defo some individuals that are harder to Tap out in certain ways-be it shoulder locks, chokes or whatever-yes they can be tapped and sometimes you need to modify the choke or improve technique-this kid happens to be crazy hard to choke in any choking fashion even when exact technique would work on most opponents

arybvtcw0eolkf

cowzerp wrote: »

The point big mak is making is he was doing it to several lads with no problem and with 1 it just was not working, there is defo some individuals that are harder to Tap out in certain ways-be it shoulder locks, chokes or whatever-yes they can be tapped and sometimes you need to modify the choke or improve technique-this kid happens to be crazy hard to choke in any choking fashion even when exact technique would work on most opponents

Yup, I'd consider myself as difficult enough to choke but I'm really weak to a............. Ha ha, not telling

Martin Walker

Samuel Thankful Skull wrote: »

As your a beginner what I'd recommend with choke's and joint locks is if your unsure ask the coach.

lol Thanks.:pac:


Seriously i assumed that it was possibly due to the lads physique hes quite lean has a long neck and broad skinny shoulders. Other chokes such as RNC and Gullotene work no bother. Its just ive never encountered something like this. Plenty of young guys whos arms seem to be made of rubber but never someone that i cant choke.

da-bres

With compression chokes = Head and arm, darce etc you will deal with more variables than the standard RnC, North south, and Guilly. these include arm positioning, grip, your own body posture, where your applying pressure etc.

Therefore study the variables, research details and you should be able to finish the choke.

In a nut shell 'Tweek'


(edit) sorry if I sound patronizing

Martin Walker

da-bres wrote: »

With compression chokes = Head and arm, darce etc you will deal with more variables than the standard RnC, North south, and Guilly. these include arm positioning, grip, your own body posture, where your applying pressure etc.

Therefore study the variables, research details and you should be able to finish the choke.

In a nut shell 'Tweek'


(edit) sorry if I sound patronizing

I dont find this patronizing at all bres. I was expecting to see people telling me to tweak my technique. However that i know and i will try again on him when i can. How to finish it wasnt my question tho as i can finish the old Darce when i get the chance.
This lad was just an exception. Ive never encountered someone that a submission just dosnt work on I was just wondering if it was unusual.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Martin Walker wrote: »

lol Thanks.:pac:

Sorry Martin, I was replying from my phone (something I really have to stop) and its a pain in the arse.. I thought you said that

I apologize.

Martin Walker

Samuel Thankful Skull wrote: »

Sorry Martin, I was replying from my phone (something I really have to stop) and its a pain in the arse.. I thought you said that

I apologize.

No need Makimomi. Ive been called alot worse!:)
Ive also learned not to get annoyed by what people write on internet forums. There are bigger worries in my life! Like will i open a cold beer and watch Snatch tonight.......

arybvtcw0eolkf

Martin Walker wrote: »

No need Makimomi. Ive been called alot worse!:)
Ive also learned not to get annoyed by what people write on internet forums. There are bigger worries in my life! Like will i open a cold beer and watch Snatch tonight.......

Feck Snatch.. Get 'Rise of The Foot Soldier'.

Or 'The Last Samurai' and take up Kendo :cool:

Barry.Oglesby

I did an hour with Drysdale just on the Brabao/Darce (the terms are pretty interchangeable) a year or so ago. That's sort of his choke, he used it a lot in competition. Anyway, his things was yes to tweak as Joey said but also to remember that it's a pain/choke submission. Sometimes they tap because they can't breathe, and sometimes they tap because of the enourmous pressure on their neck muscles. Also, how deep is your arm? The way I teach it is to have the bone of your wrist just beside their trachea. If you're too deep it's just the pressure of your meaty forearm when they should be getting your bony wrist and hand.