David Wallace ruled out of World Cup *mod warning post 93*

partyguinness

Gutted. Wallace has been my fav player for Munster and Ireland over the last few years. Depressed on Saturday after seeing it. Looking forward to seeing him in the later stages of the Heino Cup next spring.:)

CatFromHue

6 months will bring him up to February. I'm sure McGahan would love to have him fit for the run in of the Pro12 especially during the 6 Nations.

To put it in perspective Xavier Rush is a year younger than Wallace, and Alan Quinlan is 37 now. I could see Wallace playing again next season if it chooses to.

buck65

Felix Jones out for a few months too!

maupat

Gutted for David - always been a fan of his. The unsung hero in so many important games. The burning question now...is Jennings really up to the task of filling Wally's boots satisfactorily...? Indeed does Kidney have many other realistic options at present?

Bear in mind that Kidney's injury woes are mounting in this area/position - O'Brien will prob be back intime for 1st game of WC but prefers to wear 6 on his back as does Stephen Ferris.

bossa_nova

That's really harsh for him:( I'ts hard to imagine him back in an irish jersey which is a real shame, especially if he doesnt get a chance to end his international career on his own terms, wally along with Simon Easterby are two of my favorite Irish players, hope he has a speedy recovery.

steve9859

bossa_nova wrote: »

That's really harsh for him:( I'ts hard to imagine him back in an irish jersey which is a real shame, especially if he doesnt get a chance to end his international career on his own terms
.

He has nearly another 3 years until he is as old as Simon Shaw. And he has the mentality. So you never know

GerM

Wally is released from hospital today. So begins the recovery.

@wa22y David Wallace

@wa22y David Wallace wrote:

Leave hospital today and almost a wk down the rehab road. Big thanks to the fantastic staff at SSC who've made the past week so much easier.

.

Trevor Kent

bossa_nova wrote: »

That's really harsh for him:( I'ts hard to imagine him back in an irish jersey which is a real shame, especially if he doesnt get a chance to end his international career on his own terms, wally along with Simon Easterby are two of my favorite Irish players, hope he has a speedy recovery.

I dunno about that. He's a fit guy who still has it even at 35, showed he still had pace against the english in the 6N. I wouldnt write him off just yet. I expect (Hope) him to be around for the next 6N

GerM

Trevor Kent wrote: »

I dunno about that. He's a fit guy who still has it even at 35, showed he still had pace against the english in the 6N. I wouldnt write him off just yet. I expect (Hope) him to be around for the next 6N

His recovery period was reported to be at least 6 months so, unless he has an amazing recovery, the 6N is a non-runner. He'll only be starting to come back in March. With his one year deal coming to an end next summer and him turning 36, I'd be surprised if he continued on. It's not just his choice though. Munster will be looking at a 36 year old coming back from a serious injury and moving off a central IRFU contract to a Munster one (I would presume). A lot will depend on how the younger players develop this season.

MaryKing

totallegend wrote: »

I will be crucified for saying this, but even if he's fit and firing on all cylinders, Wallace should not be picked for the Six Nations and frankly, should not be picked for Ireland again.

As great a servant as he has been for Ireland and as well as he had been playing last season, the planning for the next World Cup has to start on 1st November this year. If that means people like Wallace, Cullen, Flannery etc getting the bullet from the Irish squad, then so be it.
We have to start building a deep, strong squad that won't go to pieces when we suffer a few injuries to key players, and we can't be using the warm-up games in 2015 to try out new prospects.

While I agree with you about giving young players every chance to step up and in some positions like prop & OH to persist with them even if there are better alternatives, I do think if an older player is still better than them, its up to the younger player to up their game to take their jersey in competitive tournaments like the 6Ns. There are lots of friendlies for blooding players, but its sending out the wrong message if they can't do better than a 36 year old, but still get their place ahead of them.

@totallegend

@totallegend, wound is still a bit raw to be talking about him like that imo.

Considering we'd have had him as starting 7 next week in a heartbeat, I don't think it's fair to write him off.

Though I completely agree with most of your post, I just don't think that now is the time, or that this is the place...

profitius

totallegend wrote: »

I will be crucified for saying this, but even if he's fit and firing on all cylinders, Wallace should not be picked for the Six Nations and frankly, should not be picked for Ireland again.

As great a servant as he has been for Ireland and as well as he had been playing last season, the planning for the next World Cup has to start on 1st November this year. If that means people like Wallace, Cullen, Flannery etc getting the bullet from the Irish squad, then so be it.
We have to start building a deep, strong squad that won't go to pieces when we suffer a few injuries to key players, and we can't be using the warm-up games in 2015 to try out new prospects.

I don't think you can drop players because on paper they're too old. Also, the next world cup is 4 years away so theres no point spending the 4 years buildig towards it. The older players help the younger players settle and guide them through.

MaryKing

GerM wrote: »

His recovery period was reported to be at least 6 months so, unless he has an amazing recovery, the 6N is a non-runner. He'll only be starting to come back in March. With his one year deal coming to an end next summer and him turning 36, I'd be surprised if he continued on. It's not just his choice though. Munster will be looking at a 36 year old coming back from a serious injury and moving off a central IRFU contract to a Munster one (I would presume). A lot will depend on how the younger players develop this season.

He is hardly going to bother trying to get back if he doesn't have a chance of a contract at the end of it. A bit soon to be thinking that.

Everyone says he is a complete freak of nature fitness wise, he will have one less season of wear and tear on his body.

I don't think the central contract would be relevant - his pay would reflect his fitness, no of games he plays etc. He probably wouldn't be on a central contract next year anyway and the young and upcoming backrowers wouldn't be on much money yet. If Munster bought in a SH backrower, that might be different scenario, but I can't see Munster not doing everything it could to keep David Wallace playing for another season or two, he is such a phenomenal player. He has probably been one of the first 3 players that is on both Ireland & Munster's teamsheet for important games for the last 6-8 seasons.

totallegend

Deleted User wrote: »

@totallegend, wound is still a bit raw to be talking about him like that imo.

Considering we'd have had him as starting 7 next week in a heartbeat, I don't think it's fair to write him off.

Though I completely agree with most of your post, I just don't think that now is the time, or that this is the place...

Yeah you're right. I maintain my opinion but it's not specific to Wallace so post deleted.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I doubt Wallace will be first choice for Ireland in the future but if he comes back properly I might expect him to be used as an impact sub.

When he gets back to Munster at the end of 6 months he won't really have time to hang around and wait to play himself into form. He will have to hit the ground running and show himself to be at his best to get a new contract imo.

GerM

MaryKing wrote: »

He is hardly going to bother trying to get back if he doesn't have a chance of a contract at the end of it. A bit soon to be thinking that.

Everyone says he is a complete freak of nature fitness wise, he will have one less season of wear and tear on his body.

I don't think the central contract would be relevant - his pay would reflect his fitness, no of games he plays etc. He probably wouldn't be on a central contract next year anyway and the young and upcoming backrowers wouldn't be on much money yet. If Munster bought in a SH backrower, that might be different scenario, but I can't see Munster not doing everything it could to keep David Wallace playing for another season or two, he is such a phenomenal player. He has probably been one of the first 3 players that is on both Ireland & Munster's teamsheet for important games for the last 6-8 seasons.

I'll respectfully disagree. Munster should be using this as an opportunity to blood their young talent and develop it. Wallace will be doing exceptionally well to come back to the same level of fitness after such an injury. The wear and tear argument is negated by the fact that he has a major injury. If Munster bring him in for another season, it should not be at the expense of pushing a young player that has stepped up back down the pecking order and putting off the inevitable. They have had a situation forced upon them a year ahead of what they may have expected, they should make the best of it.

Despite it being tantamount to heresy here to voice such an opinion, I believe Wallace wasn't the player he was once. He was still a phenomenal athlete and excellent player but people are allowing sentiment to cloud their judgement in light of recent events. He was nowhere near his best for a good portion of last season. He was blown away by the Toulon back row and struggled for form generally up until Christmas. People may recall he wasn't included in the Munster side that played their first HEC game.

CatFromHue

I wouldn't expect him to walk back into an Ireland jersey.

I would expect McGahan to be very interested in getting him fit for the tale end of the Pro12 and any knock out competitions they may be still in. He would compliment the squad very well at that stage.

As for next season I could see Munster offering him a one year top up contract. Alan Quinlan played until he was 37 which is the age Wally would be at the end of next season. He may not be a starter but could do a job as a squad player at least.

phog

GerM wrote: »

People may recall he wasn't included in the Munster side that played their first HEC game.

Why was that? Are you impying that he wasn't good enough to start?

MaryKing

GerM wrote: »

I'll respectfully disagree. Munster should be using this as an opportunity to blood their young talent and develop it. Wallace will be doing exceptionally well to come back to the same level of fitness after such an injury. The wear and tear argument is negated by the fact that he has a major injury. If Munster bring him in for another season, it should not be at the expense of pushing a young player that has stepped up back down the pecking order and putting off the inevitable. They have had a situation forced upon them a year ahead of what they may have expected, they should make the best of it.

Despite it being tantamount to heresy here to voice such an opinion, I believe Wallace wasn't the player he was once. He was still a phenomenal athlete and excellent player but people are allowing sentiment to cloud their judgement in light of recent events. He was nowhere near his best for a good portion of last season. He was blown away by the Toulon back row and struggled for form generally up until Christmas. People may recall he wasn't included in the Munster side that played their first HEC game.

He had a back injury last season - only cleared up completely during the 6Ns (or so he said at the end of the season). His first game of the season was coming on as a sub against Leinster.

Edit: and in his last game of the season he was MOTM in the Magners Final.

SomeFool

GerM wrote: »

People may recall he wasn't included in the Munster side that played their first HEC game.

People also recall the impact he made off the bench in the same game to secure a losing bonus point.

GerM

MaryKing wrote: »

He had a back injury last season - only cleared up completely during the 6Ns (or so he said at the end of the season). His first game of the season was coming on as a sub against Leinster.

Edit: and in his last game of the season he was MOTM in the Magners Final.

It wasn't. He started the week before the Leinster game. He did have a back niggle last season, that's absolutely true. But he was fit to play against LI. Paul Wallace said this in an interview the day before the game and was surprised that Ronan was starting ahead of him. He was also dropped the season before for the ML semi final. He's not super human. He might be the closest thing to it that we've ever had, but he's not. He's getting on and as unpalatable as it might be his performances, overall, are not where they were 2 or 3 years ago at which point he was unstoppable.

I'm not denigrating Wallace. He's an outstanding athlete but Munster should not spend the season looking backwards to when he gets back but forwards to when they could possibly have a young, international class flanker taking on opponents.

GerM

phog wrote: »

Why was that? Are you impying that he wasn't good enough to start?

:rolleyes:

He's clearly better than Ronan. At the time, however, he was struggling to find fitness and form and McGahan obviously saw Ronan as the better option for the task at hand (incorrectly in my view). It wasn't the first time that Wallace sat on the bench in the past couple of years.

phog

GerM wrote: »

:rolleyes:

He's clearly better than Ronan. At the time, however, he was struggling to find fitness and form and McGahan obviously saw Ronan as the better option for the task at hand (incorrectly in my view). It wasn't the first time that Wallace sat on the bench in the past couple of years.

So lets see you use the argument that he wasnt included as evidence that he wasn't good enough and now you state in your view it was an incorrect call.

So, what is your view of Wallace?

MaryKing

GerM wrote: »

It wasn't. He started the week before the Leinster game. He did have a back niggle last season, that's absolutely true. But he was fit to play against LI. Paul Wallace said this in an interview the day before the game and was surprised that Ronan was starting ahead of him. He was also dropped the season before for the ML semi final. He's not super human. He might be the closest thing to it that we've ever had, but he's not. He's getting on and as unpalatable as it might be his performances, overall, are not where they were 2 or 3 years ago at which point he was unstoppable.

I'm not denigrating Wallace. He's an outstanding athlete but Munster should not spend the season looking backwards to when he gets back but forwards to when they could possibly have a young, international class flanker taking on opponents.

Apologies - you are correct - he played 60 mins the week before against Edinburgh - but he did have a late start to the season - Ronan O'Gara (injury free international) was playing his 4th game of the season.

I'm only going on what he said that he had a niggly back injury that only finally cleared up during the 6Ns, so despite not being fully fit he still started most games for Munster & Ireland which seems to indicate how indepensible he is to both.

According to Declan Kidney as well, he has never seen him so fit as he is now. Don't think it was Kidney just saying it either - I think Stephen Ferris seemed to be happy enough to be 2nd to him in some training competitions. (He mentioned on twitter that Wally had won some sled pushing competition in Ireland camp).

And how can you explain his performance in the Magners Final? He looked very sharp then.

Gracelessly Tom

I think people are taking posts as personal attacks or attacks on Wallace. No one has said he is a bad player. He is one of the best Irish players of recent times, no one is denying that. But, unfortunately, it's time to face up to reality. He's 35 now and will be almost 36 by the time he is back in full action. He'll be doing well to get 5 or 6 games in next season considering he'll only be back around March time at the earliest and providing there is no complications or setbacks. He will also need a break to oust the player in possession of the Munster 7 jersey once he's back.

He may have been the fittest 35 year old Declan has ever seen but at that age the body will take longer to recover and longer to get back up to that level of fitness again. He'll struggle next season if he gets back and then you are looking at a summer to get up to scratch and break into an Irish team at the age of 36 in the 2012/13 season.

I would love to see him do it but unfortunately it is very unlikely.

MaryKing

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

I think people are taking posts as personal attacks or attacks on Wallace. No one has said he is a bad player. He is one of the best Irish players of recent times, no one is denying that. But, unfortunately, it's time to face up to reality. He's 35 now and will be almost 36 by the time he is back in full action. He'll be doing well to get 5 or 6 games in next season considering he'll only be back around March time at the earliest and providing there is no complications or setbacks. He will also need a break to oust the player in possession of the Munster 7 jersey once he's back.

He may have been the fittest 35 year old Declan has ever seen but at that age the body will take longer to recover and longer to get back up to that level of fitness again. He'll struggle next season if he gets back and then you are looking at a summer to get up to scratch and break into an Irish team at the age of 36 in the 2012/13 season.

I would love to see him do it but unfortunately it is very unlikely.

I think GerM is saying that Wallace's form has been poor which I would disagree with when you know he was carrying an injury.

DW wasn't the fittest 35 year old he had seen. He was as fit as Declan had ever seen him (and he would have coached him off and on from when he was a young fellow).

I seem to recall someone commenting that it was unusual for someone of DW's age to get an international contract. Apparently he got the contract because his fitness levels were so good.

Add in his competitiveness and I wouldn't rule out Wally putting it up to the young Munster players to hang onto a spot in the Munster backrow. They will be the ones who will be looking over their shoulder trying to keep ahead now that they will get a chance.

Gracelessly Tom

MaryKing wrote: »

DW wasn't the fittest 35 year old he had seen. He was as fit as Declan had ever seen him (and he would have coached him off and on from when he was a young fellow).

Add in his competitiveness and I wouldn't rule out Wally putting it up to the young Munster players to hang onto a spot in the Munster backrow. They will be the ones who will be looking over their shoulder trying to keep ahead now that they will get a chance.

1st point - Apologies, I misquoted him. Thought he said the fittest 35 year old. That's mighty impressive if he is fitter now than he ever has been (injury aside).

2nd point - Hopefully he does come back wanting gametime, the fact the young guys will be looking over their shoulders and being forced to up their game can only be a good thing for their development.

GerM

1. Wallace's form has not been where it once was. He was on form once fit but that form does not equate to the player he was 3 years ago.
2. Wallace was out of form/fitness at the start of last season enough to see McGahan select Ronan ahead of him. In my opinion, an out of form Wallace is superior to Ronan still.

People are taking me up incorrectly and going out of their way to see things in my posts that aren't there. In no way do I think Wallace has been anything but a superb player and servant to Irish rugby. I think I'll leave it at that.

MaryKing

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

1st point - Apologies, I misquoted him. Thought he said the fittest 35 year old. That's mighty impressive if he is fitter now than he ever has been (injury aside).

2nd point - Hopefully he does come back wanting gametime, the fact the young guys will be looking over their shoulders and being forced to up their game can only be a good thing for their development.

Actually we are both misquoting him! For the record, here is what he actually said:

"I've never seen a man as physically fit as he is," said Kidney. "It's heartbreaking for him and extremely disappointing for us."

RoryMc23

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

I think people are taking posts as personal attacks or attacks on Wallace. No one has said he is a bad player. He is one of the best Irish players of recent times, no one is denying that. But, unfortunately, it's time to face up to reality. He's 35 now and will be almost 36 by the time he is back in full action. He'll be doing well to get 5 or 6 games in next season considering he'll only be back around March time at the earliest and providing there is no complications or setbacks. He will also need a break to oust the player in possession of the Munster 7 jersey once he's back.

He may have been the fittest 35 year old Declan has ever seen but at that age the body will take longer to recover and longer to get back up to that level of fitness again. He'll struggle next season if he gets back and then you are looking at a summer to get up to scratch and break into an Irish team at the age of 36 in the 2012/13 season.

I would love to see him do it but unfortunately it is very unlikely.

No one particular poster is and from my short experience here that poster seems to always react similarly whenever anything even remotely considered a criticism is levelled against a Munster player.

Wallace DID struggle with form this season. He was dropped from the LI game and was very quiet throughout the early part of the season. Remember the Italy game where he made 4 tackles all game and was extremely quiet? Thankfully he improved in the final two 6N game and then kicked on from there but he definitely isnt the player he once was. I don't see why some people take such offence, even BOD isnt the player he once was. The fact of the matter is that Wallace wasnt even guaranteed his place in the Irish backrow anymore and that would never have happened in the past. Very unfortunate for him, I was looking forward to seeing himself and Ferris battle it out for the final backrow spot.

MaryKing

RoryMc23 wrote: »

No one particular poster is and from my short experience here that poster seems to always react similarly whenever anything even remotely considered a criticism is levelled against a Munster player.

Wallace DID struggle with form this season. He was dropped from the LI game and was very quiet throughout the early part of the season. Remember the Italy game where he made 4 tackles all game and was extremely quiet? Thankfully he improved in the final two 6N game and then kicked on from there but he definitely isnt the player he once was. I don't see why some people take such offence, even BOD isnt the player he once was. The fact of the matter is that Wallace wasnt even guaranteed his place in the Irish backrow anymore and that would never have happened in the past. Very unfortunate for him, I was looking forward to seeing himself and Ferris battle it out for the final backrow spot.

Can you not see that carrying an injury would affect your form? I would have thought that Heislip & Wallace were the only two nailed on starters in Ireland's backrow up to Wallace's injury. Neither Jennings or Sean O'Brien impressed when they have played there internationally. Sean O'Brien is a far better No. 6., but we're lucky to have him. It will be interesting to see who Declan Kidney goes with between Jennings & Sean now against Australia & Italy.

Podge_irl

Wallace was still an exceptional player at times the season just gone. But it was clear that the consistency of performance was eluding him. Not altogether unexpected given his age and not a bad mark on the man. I don't doubt he could still put in some great performances when he comes back but I would be amazed if he puts in consistent enough performances to challenge for an Ireland jersey. He would still be of immense use to Munster as an impact sub I'd say.

phog

Say what you like about him, age, form, type of player that he is, had he not picked this injury there isn't a doubt in the world but that he'd have had an impact for Ireland in this W/Cup.

stephen_n

Really really sad that one of the great Irish players of the last 10 years will not get to finish with a last crack at the RWC. Must be horrible having to watch the team go and being stuck back here.