Showers in School

Giruilla

darklighter wrote: »

YOU made the above statement of fact.

Where did I say it was a fact? It's a widely held theory.

darklighter wrote: »

I find it deeply offensive that you are insinuating that asthma sufferers have a psychological problem.

It wasn't my intention to offend you and I apologise that I did. You may be interpreting 'psychological problem' as some sort of mental disorder, however I meant it in the sense that I believe asthma can be cured by natural methods without medication.

darklighter wrote: »

Do other disease sufferers also have psychological problems?

Thats far too general a question, so the only way I can answer that is , sometimes yes and sometimes no.

darklighter wrote: »

Are you saying that if a student has had a reaction to a deodorant, that this isnt enough DIRECT evidence for them to be banned?

If it can be proven that the deodorant was the direct reason, then yes it should be banned.

darklighter

Giruilla wrote: »

Where did I say it was a fact? It's a widely held theory.
It wasn't my intention to offend you and I apologise that I did. You may be interpreting 'psychological problem' as some sort of mental disorder, however I meant it in the sense that I believe asthma can be cured by natural methods without medication.
Thats far too general a question, so the only way I can answer that is , sometimes yes and sometimes no.
If it can be proven that the deodorant was the direct reason, then yes it should be banned.

Read the sentance again. Use of IS indicates that that what you are stating is a fact and has been proved conclusively.

As for widely-held, its not a theory i've ever heard before. And as Ireland has one of the highest, if not the highest, rates of Asthma afflication in the world, i'd be pretty sure I would have heard if it was widely held.

I dont no how you expect anyone to associate "psychological problem" with anything other than that they have a mental problem contributing to their illness. I'm sure you didnt mean any offense but that is how it reads.

I wont make a comment on your belief that natural methods have an impact as I havent tried any. But if you have any tips that work for you, i'd love to hear them. Anything is worth a shot I find that the more exercise I get, the less my asthma affects me.

Giruilla

darklighter wrote: »

As for widely-held, its not a theory i've ever heard before. And as Ireland has one of the highest, if not the highest, rates of Asthma afflication in the world, i'd be pretty sure I would have heard if it was widely held.

Have you ever had it where you could go days without using using your inhaler, yet one day you will go to work/school, realise you forgot your inhaler and then your asthma comes on worse than ever? This is a prime example of asthma being a psychologically induced problem.
People have a stereotype of hearing the word psychological, and immediately thinking of a mental disorder.

darklighter wrote: »

n your belief that natural methods have an impact as I havent tried any. But if you have any tips that work for you, i'd love to hear them. Anything is worth a shot I find that the more exercise I get, the less my asthma affects me.

I completely find that too! My tip would be paying attention to how breath in different situations. Do you breath through your mouth a lot?

My main point was I object to schools making rules of this sort without evidence (or at least debate).

RustyNut

If the biggest problem someone has on their journey through school is having to use roll on rather than spray on deodorant well thats an easy journey.

Maybe pick a worthwhile issue to get worked up about. Aerosols affect some people negatively roll ons don't move on...

January

I reckon a student had a reaction to the spray deodorant (whether it be an asthma attack or an allergic reaction) so they decided to ban them, kind of like when a student has a nut/egg etc allergy, it's easier to just ban the product than try and isolate the student from it.

*Mod Note* If anyone suspects anyone of being a troll, then please report the post rather than call them out on thread about it, it can cause arguments and that's not the sort of debate we want here. Let's try and keep it all on topic.

CrazyRabbit

January wrote: »

I reckon a student had a reaction to the spray deodorant (whether it be an asthma attack or an allergic reaction) so they decided to ban them, kind of like when a student has a nut/egg etc allergy, it's easier to just ban the product than try and isolate the student from it.

*Mod Note* If anyone suspects anyone of being a troll, then please report the post rather than call them out on thread about it, it can cause arguments and that's not the sort of debate we want here. Let's try and keep it all on topic.

Apologies, but I did not call the other poster a troll. I merely asked them if they were trolling. If I was sure, I would have used the report button.

Making unsubstantiated claims which are likely to piss off a large number of readers and evoke emotive responses is typical behaviour of trolls and I was just curious.

Giruilla

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Making unsubstantiated claims which are likely to piss off a large number of readers and evoke emotive responses is typical behaviour of trolls and I was just curious.

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

Giruilla, are you trolling? Because it's the only reasonable conclusion when reading your past few posts.

Seeing as you haven't substantiated the above claim, I'd call that an unsubstantiated claim.
CrazyRabbit, are you trolling? Just curious.

Banning aerosol from school changing rooms on the basis it provokes asthma, is unsubstantiated in my opinion.

Orion

That's quite enough from both of you. Next similar comment earns an infraction.

Back on topic please

darklighter

Giruilla wrote: »

Have you ever had it where you could go days without using using your inhaler, yet one day you will go to work/school, realise you forgot your inhaler and then your asthma comes on worse than ever? This is a prime example of asthma being a psychologically induced problem.
People have a stereotype of hearing the word psychological, and immediately thinking of a mental disorder.

I completely find that too! My tip would be paying attention to how breath in different situations. Do you breath through your mouth a lot?

My main point was I object to schools making rules of this sort without evidence (or at least debate).

That has never happened to me nor anyone I know of with Asthma. I find the only time I use my ventolin is when i forget to take my other medication. The rest of the time the ventolin stays well out of the way.

I try to breath in through the nose, out through the mouth. Though since I read an article about how breathing through your mouth can affect your teeth alignment, I try to breathe through the nose all the time.

Back OT, I couldnt agree more that if they are banning spray deodorants for no reason, its ridiculous. But I personally can think of no other reason other than a student has had an issue for them banning - ie if it was because of abuse or that students were doing the flamthrower thing, why wouldnt they just say so?

LadyMayBelle

Giruilla wrote: »

Seeing as you haven't substantiated the above claim, I'd call that an unsubstantiated claim.
CrazyRabbit, are you trolling? Just curious.

Banning aerosol from school changing rooms on the basis it provokes asthma, is unsubstantiated in my opinion.

I am with Giruilla on this one, and do not think he/she is trolling. There are barely any grounds to ban aerosels in relation to asthma (a quick google of asthma and aerosols on google scholar will tell you that). A school has grounds for banning aerosols for reasons such as kids messing with them, or if one child or indeed ten children have reactions to the chemicals or ingredients in them.

I am shocked at people's belief that asthma does not have psychological aspect; it is a organic medical issue that is triggered and affected by yes, physical things such as allergens but also environmental and systemic issues such as relational stress, anxiety, even domestic violence. Asthma can be deemed as a psychosomatic reaction in some instances.

This is not saying the 'root cause is in poor parenting or bad upbringing' however the management of stressors and emotion regulation WILL inevitably lead to a better quality of life for asthma sufferers. I think people may be getting carried away with thinking asthma sufferers have 'dreadful psychological backgrounds'... asthma has a physical medical basis but psychology will most def affect management.

Some light reading :
http://jpepsy.oxfordjournals.org/content/32/5/542.full.pdf+html

http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/31/2/144.short

Edit: just giving info, apologies for going OT. i have made my point about it being ludicrous to ban it for asthma reasons, and baby wipes and roll ons are the next best option if you get nowhere.

darklighter

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

I am with Giruilla on this one, and do not think he/she is trolling. There are barely any grounds to ban aerosels in relation to asthma (a quick google of asthma and aerosols on google scholar will tell you that). A school has grounds for banning aerosols for reasons such as kids messing with them, or if one child or indeed ten children have reactions to the chemicals or ingredients in them.

I am shocked at people's belief that asthma does not have psychological aspect; it is a organic medical issue that is triggered and affected by yes, physical things such as allergens but also environmental and systemic issues such as relational stress, anxiety, even domestic violence. Asthma can be deemed as a psychosomatic reaction in some instances.

This is not saying the 'root cause is in poor parenting or bad upbringing' however the management of stressors and emotion regulation WILL inevitably lead to a better quality of life for asthma sufferers. I think people may be getting carried away with thinking asthma sufferers have 'dreadful psychological backgrounds'... asthma has a physical medical basis but psychology will most def affect management.

Some light reading :
http://jpepsy.oxfordjournals.org/content/32/5/542.full.pdf+html

http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/31/2/144.short

Edit: just giving info, apologies for going OT. i have made my point about it being ludicrous to ban it for asthma reasons, and baby wipes and roll ons are the next best option if you get nowhere.

Nobody said it doesnt have a "psychological aspect".

However, stating that it is as much a psychological problem as it is a physical one, has no basis in fact.

If a student has had a reaction, that is enough grounds IMO. The health and well-being of a child is a darn sight more important than whether kids get to use lynx or impluse.

Giruilla

LadyMayBelle wrote: »

A school has grounds for banning aerosols for reasons such as kids messing with them, or if one child or indeed ten children have reactions to the chemicals or ingredients in them.

Completely agree. When there are so many logical reasons to ban aerosols, I don't know why they would use asthma as a reason.

and as to

RustyNut wrote: »

Schools put all sorts of rules in place for all sorts of reasons. If you don't like them find a school where the rules are suitable for you.

Would it not be better where parents are allowed to question the running of a school rather than accept a de facto standard of unquestionable authority?

RustyNut

Giruilla wrote: »

Would it not be better where parents are allowed to question the running of a school rather than accept a de facto standard of unquestionable authority?

Of course parents should have an input into the running of the school and should be consulted on all policy issues.

This however is a mickey mouse issue, some puples don't like rollon deodorant I have not heard any reason to complane other than they don't like them, well suck it up.

I don't think it is appropriate for parents to be trying to micromanage schools that is best left to the professionals, if they have decided that it is in the best intrest of the pupils and school that aerosols should be banned well that's that.

Principls have enough to deal with with out, my johney doesn't like liquid soap, my Mary wants softer toilet paper, my anney won't use roll on deodorant.

Get over it and move on
Just my opinion...

Giruilla

RustyNut wrote: »

I don't think it is appropriate for parents to be trying to micromanage schools that is best left to the professionals, if they have decided that it is in the best intrest of the pupils and school that aerosols should be banned well that's that.

I completely agree. Yet, how would you feel about a school constantly making decisions that have no logical basis? Or as is the case here, having logical bases, yet giving parents illogical reasons?

RustyNut

Giruilla wrote: »

I completely agree. Yet, how would you feel about a school constantly making decisions that have no logical basis? Or as is the case here, having logical bases, yet giving parents illogical reasons?

I didn't get constantly from anywhere,this appears to be a single issue to me.

Guy:Incognito

Do kids not play on sports teams outside of schools anymore? Where do they shower after those?

Giruilla

RustyNut wrote: »

I didn't get constantly from anywhere,this appears to be a single issue to me.

It was a hypothetical question

darklighter

Giruilla wrote: »

I completely agree. Yet, how would you feel about a school constantly making decisions that have no logical basis? Or as is the case here, having logical bases, yet giving parents illogical reasons?

What is the illogical reason? They gave the reason as asthma and there is no evidence to say that this isnt the reason and no logical reason for the school to use asthma as the excuse if it wasnt.

RustyNut

Giruilla wrote: »

It was a hypothetical question

In that hypothetical situation I would approach the BOM and express my concerns, that is not the case here, they said it was due to an asthma issue and whether that was physical or psychological we shall just have to take their word.

Orion

RustyNut wrote: »

Giruilla wrote: »

It was a hypothetical question

In that hypothetical situation I would approach the BOM and express my concerns, that is not the case here, they said it was due to an asthma issue and whether that was physical or psychological we shall just have to take their word.

The BoM will refer you to the PA. That's the forum to raise issues like this. The BOM deals with the broader picture not day to day matters.

byhookorbycrook

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Do kids not play on sports teams outside of schools anymore? Where do they shower after those?

Our school matches are all outside of hours, children go home .

Lollipops23

I've had chronic asthma since age 3 and as a side effect am allergic to a huge amount of stuff (pets, some cosmetics, air fresheners etc).

Having said that, I've never has an adverse reaction to a deodorant and I've never even heard of such a thing. We had spray cans in school (not just for PE, but heavy woolen jumpers etc can make you sweat and we weren't allowed take them off!) and there was never any sort of issue regarding allergies or asthma.

However, some kids used them as flame throwers. Maybe this is an excuse for banning them? I can see other kids using this as an excuse to tease any asthmatics in their class, which annoys me as they're already an easy target for teasing

Donahg

The school is very out of touch if they expect teenage girls to get naked in front of each other, What teenage girl would want her classmates seeing her breasts and her private part ?

CrazyRabbit

Donahg wrote: »

The school is very out of touch if they expect teenage girls to get naked in front of each other, What teenage girl would want her classmates seeing in breasts and her private part ?

When I was younger, it wasn't a problem. We all showered together after PE and nobody batted an eyelid.

The fact that today children are terrified of public showering is just another indication of how much pressure is on kids regarding their body image. They are all hung up on the fact that they may look different, might be 'too fat' etc. It's not healthy.

Donahg

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

When I was younger, it wasn't a problem. We all showered together after PE and nobody batted an eyelid.

The fact that today children are terrified of public showering is just another indication of how much pressure is on kids regarding their body image. They are all hung up on the fact that they may look different, might be 'too fat' etc. It's not healthy.

Are you male ? I think most males dont care if their penis is seen but girls care about their breasts and their vagina being seen

magneticimpulse

Donahg wrote: »

Are you male ? I think most males dont care if their penis is seen but girls care about their breasts and their vagina being seen

I think its just an Irish attitude.

There are plently of communal naked saunas in Europe and nobody cares. If people are so prude about it then they are the ones with a body image problem. We all have bodies and skin. It is all very natural. The more people are told it is wrong to be naked the more hang ups they will have.

I have often had to go to german saunas with work colleagues naked (male and female). If I dont they all label me the prude Irish Catholic girl. Ireland needs to get with the times and stop having bad body image. People should be proud of their bodies in all shapes and sizes.

CookieMonster.x

Iomib wrote: »

My daughters school ( and i would guess most other schools) have only a big open shower room with no privacy so nobody in her class has ever taken a shower after pe. The school has banned spray deodorant this year so we got a letter telling us to tell our kids to consider taking a shower after pe.

I am a girl in secondary school and I would just give her roll on deodorant and leave it at that. I have asthma and I can tell you that when it is bad, sprays really make it 100 times worse. I'm not sure if we are allowed sprays but we use them anyway, and I'm sure you could just use it outside.
Roll on is more effective IMO, it's not a big deal to use it either.

Donahg

CookieMonster.x wrote: »

I am a girl in secondary school and I would just give her roll on deodorant and leave it at that. I have asthma and I can tell you that when it is bad, sprays really make it 100 times worse. I'm not sure if we are allowed sprays but we use them anyway, and I'm sure you could just use it outside.
Roll on is more effective IMO, it's not a big deal to use it either.

As a girl in secondary school would you agree it would be too embarrassing to get naked in front of your classmates?

KittyeeTrix

Donahg wrote: »

As a girl in secondary school would you agree it would be too embarrassing to get naked in front of your classmates?

I know I'd never have gotten naked in front of my classmates at secondary school.......I would've been mortified!!

CookieMonster.x

Donahg wrote: »

CookieMonster.x wrote: »

I am a girl in secondary school and I would just give her roll on deodorant and leave it at that. I have asthma and I can tell you that when it is bad, sprays really make it 100 times worse. I'm not sure if we are allowed sprays but we use them anyway, and I'm sure you could just use it outside.
Roll on is more effective IMO, it's not a big deal to use it either.

As a girl in secondary school would you agree it would be too embarrassing to get naked in front of your classmates?

Yes of course I would, I wouldn't have a shower. We have 6 showers in our school but they're not used. There simply isn't any time and I presume that's the same in most schools. In all honesty, I doubt the school is being serious about the showers. It's unreasonable to ask girls to take open showers in school. I'd say it's more a case of if you have a problem with roll on/hygiene/smelling then take a shower.