Asked my religion in hospital

Delirium

terrlobe wrote: »

How far back do you want to go? To when mammoths or even dinasaurs roamed these parts? Our recorded history coincides with the arrival of Christian missionaries so stop confusing the issue.

you're the one that made an incorrect statement. Excuse me for pointing out that Ireland has a history that extends way beyond the appearance of Christianity.

And I'm not confusing the issue, I'm addressing the issues that you yourself posted.

terrlobe

swampgas wrote: »

terrlobe wrote: »

Wha? Our churches and monasteries don't form the bulk of our prized cultural heritage... visiting tourists might beg to differ. Until very recently we've always been a Catholic nation. More Catholic than almost anywhere else in fact, so you can't gloss over that. The times are a changing and fads will come and go... live and let live.

So - because Ireland has been mostly catholic for over a thousand years, nobody is allowed to be an atheist? That's your argument?

You do realise that one can appreciate items of cultural heritage without believing in any of their associated religions, don't you? Or do you think you have to believe in the Egyptian gods to appreciate the pyramids?

Never said or insinuated any of above; just reacting to the anti Catholic bias here and in the media mocking religious sensibilities.

efb

terrlobe wrote: »

Never said or insinuated any of above; just reacting to the anti Catholic bias here and in the media mocking religious sensibilities.

if only they just showed 7th Heaven on loop..

MagicMarker

terrlobe wrote: »

How far back do you want to go? To when mammoths or even dinasaurs roamed these parts? Our recorded history coincides with the arrival of Christian missionaries so stop confusing the issue.

Recorded history typically began around 4000bc when writing was invented, is that when the Christian missionaries arrived?

terrlobe

koth wrote: »

terrlobe wrote: »

How far back do you want to go? To when mammoths or even dinasaurs roamed these parts? Our recorded history coincides with the arrival of Christian missionaries so stop confusing the issue.

you're the one that made an incorrect statement. Excuse me for pointing out that Ireland has a history that extends way beyond the appearance of Christianity.

And I'm not confusing the issue, I'm addressing the issues that you yourself posted.

Obviously! Only a pedant would take literally our cultural history to include ancient history which is as foreign to us as the Ming Dynasty nevermind that it's undocumented. We know little about pre Celtic tribes because nothing tangible remains apart from folklore and oral traditions written down by Christian monks. Apart from Newgrange, Tara, Knowth and Dowth there isn't as many historical relics remaining beyond Christianity as churches or the vestiges of Catholic Ireland's struggle.

Dades

terrlobe wrote: »

Never said or insinuated any of above; just reacting to the anti Catholic bias here and in the media mocking religious sensibilities.

Maybe if the catholic church hadn't been such an insidious, corrupt and self-serving organisation over the years, they wouldn't get such stick.

I for one couldn't care less how many catholics or churches or priests this country has as long as they let go of our schools. They can keep the Angelus.

More than happy to live and let live, but it's the church that needs to address this.

terrlobe

MagicMarker wrote: »

terrlobe wrote: »

How far back do you want to go? To when mammoths or even dinasaurs roamed these parts? Our recorded history coincides with the arrival of Christian missionaries so stop confusing the issue.

Recorded history typically began around 4000bc when writing was invented, is that when the Christian missionaries arrived?

In Ancient Greece maybe but in these islands they were less advanced and only began writing 400-500AD not 4000BC! So, Christianity spelled enlightenment.

norrie rugger

So the Greeks must abandon Christianity and start worshipping the Olympians again?

What about those pesky Romans, they had enlightenment and civilisation, while worshipping their own version of the Greek gods (with the thinking that the descendants of Troy founded Lavinium and then on to Rome)? Should they go back to worshipping Jupiter et al.?

Zombrex

terrlobe wrote: »

despise these posh atheist/agnostic a la carte types... it begs the question what would those that gave their lives for freedom in Ireland think? Like rats jumping ship... only thing is the ship remains afloat... don't get it!

A lot of people who gave their lives for Ireland were Marxists, so I'm guessing they would be all for it.

kylith

terrlobe wrote: »

In Ancient Greece maybe but in these islands they were less advanced and only began writing 400-500AD not 4000BC! So, Christianity spelled enlightenment.

I'm sorry, you're wrong. Ogham dates from Roman times, and it definitely predates any Christian movement in Ireland.

MrPudding

MagicMarker wrote: »

Congratulations, you've won the ''post that makes the least sense'' award for 2011. You'll be glad to know that this covers all posts on the internet.

Really? Ok. Who is telling Dead One he has to return the trophy?

MrP

iguana

terrlobe wrote: »

Obviously! Only a pedant would take literally our cultural history to include ancient history which is as foreign to us as the Ming Dynasty nevermind that it's undocumented. We know little about pre Celtic tribes because nothing tangible remains apart from folklore and oral traditions written down by Christian monks. Apart from Newgrange, Tara, Knowth and Dowth there isn't as many historical relics remaining beyond Christianity as churches or the vestiges of Catholic Ireland's struggle.

You're funny!:pac:

norrie rugger

Anyone want to tell him that Hyde, Parnell, Wolf Tone et al were protestants.

We do not believe in any of the fairy tales, not just the Roman story.

I would say that he is a troll but he makes too little sense to be one.

kylith

terrlobe wrote: »

Apart from Newgrange, Tara, Knowth and Dowth, numeous dolmens, hundred of passage graves, remains of settlements and crannógs, numerous finds of celtic gold hoards, bodies so well preserved in bogs that we can tell what they used to style their hair, a large amount of archaeological evidence of farming and hunting, excavated boats, evidence of pre-christian religious ceremonies, stone circles, and a rich oral tradition going back 5 millenia (and probably a lot of other stuff I've forgotten), there isn't as many historical relics remaining beyond Christianity as churches or the vestiges of Catholic Ireland's struggle.

FYP.

Have you ever been to the National History Museum? If not, I recommend you go. You'll be amazed at the amount of archaeology we have for pre-christian Ireland. History didn't start with the monks. As others have said; the country was populated for six and a half millenia before Patrick showed up with his crozier.

iguana

Y'know just the other day I was thinking about how for every Irish person named Connor, Cormac, Cathal, Finbar, Fergus, Ciarán, Cian, Oisín, Ronan, Fiachra, Deirdre, Grainne, Maebh, Niamh, Neasa or Fionnula there is at least one Irish person named Zhū Yuánzhāng, Zhū Gāochì, Zhū Qízhèn, Zhū Jiànshēn, Zhū Hòuzhào, Ren Xiao Wen, Zhao Xian, Zhao Yi, Xian Xian or Jing Zhao Shun Xian.

It just goes to show how the Ming Dynasty and pre-Christian Ireland have as much influence on modern Ireland as each other.:cool:

terrlobe

kylith wrote: »

terrlobe wrote: »

Apart from Newgrange, Tara, Knowth and Dowth, numeous dolmens, hundred of passage graves, remains of settlements and crannógs, numerous finds of celtic gold hoards, bodies so well preserved in bogs that we can tell what they used to style their hair, a large amount of archaeological evidence of farming and hunting, excavated boats, evidence of pre-christian religious ceremonies, stone circles, and a rich oral tradition going back 5 millenia (and probably a lot of other stuff I've forgotten), there isn't as many historical relics remaining beyond Christianity as churches or the vestiges of Catholic Ireland's struggle.

FYP.

Have you ever been to the National History Museum? If not, I recommend you go. You'll be amazed at the amount of archaeology we have for pre-christian Ireland. History didn't start with the monks. As others have said; the country was populated for six and a half millenia before Patrick showed up with his crozier.

Are you answering a question that wasn't asked just for the heck of it or to support your own prejudice? My general knowledge of this country's origins is better than most and doesn't require a school trip to the museum thank you very much.

I don't dispute the fact that pre-Christian hunter gatherer tribes ecked out a living here and may have carved primitive symbols in stone or sacrificed their sons and daughters to various pagan deities but i don't hear academics ever refer to any of them as a "civilisation". No matter what way you look at it they are a distant lineage and only serves to satisfy an intellectual curiousity.

Far be it from me to ram religion down anyone's throat, and a non demoninational school system would make sense, but don't go saying Christianity isn't a source of good: it shaped this country's past and present, and will still be here long after we're gone!

Sarky

terrlobe wrote: »

don't go saying Christianity isn't a source of good: it shaped this country's past and present, and will still be here long after we're gone!

The part of this post before the colon has absolutely no bearing on the part after it.

norrie rugger

terrlobe wrote: »

Are you answering a question that wasn't asked just for the heck of it or to support your own prejudice? My general knowledge of this country's origins is better than most and doesn't require a school trip to the museum thank you very much.

I don't dispute the fact that pre-Christian hunter gatherer tribes ecked out a living here and may have carved primitive symbols in stone or sacrificed their sons and daughters to various pagan deities but i don't hear academics ever refer to any of them as a "civilisation". No matter what way you look at it they are a distant lineage and only serves to satisfy an intellectual curiousity.

Far be it from me to ram religion down anyone's throat, and a non demoninational school system would make sense, but don't go saying Christianity isn't a source of good: it shaped this country's past and present, and will still be here long after we're gone!

yet you seem to ignore all the ancient religions, of civilisations past? Grecian, Roman, Myan, Aztec etc? should those countries move back to the religions that brought them civilisation?
The Irish were here before christianity and will be here after it is, rightfully, consigned to the fairytale section

Coriolanus

terrlobe wrote: »

I don't dispute the fact that pre-Christian hunter gatherer tribes ecked out a living here and may have carved primitive symbols in stone or sacrificed their sons and daughters to various pagan deities but i don't hear academics ever refer to any of them as a "civilisation".

AND they probably stole that idea from Moses. Fùckers, eh?

swampgas

terrlobe wrote: »

Far be it from me to ram religion down anyone's throat, and a non demoninational school system would make sense, but don't go saying Christianity isn't a source of good: it shaped this country's past and present, and will still be here long after we're gone!

That's contentious. Maybe Irish people themselves were the source of good? Maybe they would have done good even under a different religion, or with no religion? Maybe they would have done more good without Christianity?

Would you have an opinion on when Christianity in Ireland was most beneficial? Back in medieval times? !930s? 1950s? 1980s?

mikhail

terrlobe wrote: »

I don't dispute the fact that pre-Christian hunter gatherer tribes ecked out a living here and may have carved primitive symbols in stone or sacrificed their sons and daughters to various pagan deities but i don't hear academics ever refer to any of them as a "civilisation". No matter what way you look at it they are a distant lineage and only serves to satisfy an intellectual curiousity.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/25516056

passarellaie

mikhail wrote: »

terrlobe wrote: »

I don't dispute the fact that pre-Christian hunter gatherer tribes ecked out a living here and may have carved primitive symbols in stone or sacrificed their sons and daughters to various pagan deities but i don't hear academics ever refer to any of them as a "civilisation". No matter what way you look at it they are a distant lineage and only serves to satisfy an intellectual curiousity.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/25516056

Well let me.congratulate all the athiests/agnostics here who proudly declared themselves whatever in hospital.Could I now ask them to take the next step and when they are kicking the bucket get the **** out of Catholic graveyards

Undergod

Non-sequitir!

I'd imagine many of the regular atheist posters on this board would be somewhere between happy and indifferent about knowing they won't be buried in Catholic graveyards.

Delirium

passarellaie wrote: »

Well let me.congratulate all the athiests/agnostics here who proudly declared themselves whatever in hospital.Could I now ask them to take the next step and when they are kicking the bucket get the **** out of Catholic graveyards

No!!! And just to really upset the Catholics I'm getting my tombstone engraved with the name of the guy who is the centre of attention on 25th December.




:P:pac::pac:

I'd prefer to be asked. I have been asked a few times, and I don't ever recall anyone as much as raising an eyebrow at my reply.

The alternative is not to be asked, which is a bit naff really if you think about it.

MagicMarker

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd prefer to be asked. I have been asked a few times, and I don't ever recall anyone as much as raising an eyebrow at my reply.

The alternative is not to be asked, which is a bit naff really if you think about it.

Would you prefer to be asked what your religion is if you were ordering a coffee?

kylith

terrlobe wrote: »

I don't dispute the fact that pre-Christian hunter gatherer tribes ecked out a living here and may have carved primitive symbols in stone or sacrificed their sons and daughters to various pagan deities

Like early Christians did?

but i don't hear academics ever refer to any of them as a "civilisation". No matter what way you look at it they are a distant lineage and only serves to satisfy an intellectual curiousity.

I think it's rather unfair to call approx. 6,500 years of social development uncivilised, and I'd very much like to see links to where academics have dismissed it as not a civilisation. Pre-Christian Ireland had a rich civilisation with various social classes, and rights for women, the elderly, and the disabled that could be considered progressive in some 21st centuary 'civilisations'.

Far be it from me to ram religion down anyone's throat, and a non demoninational school system would make sense, but don't go saying Christianity isn't a source of good: it shaped this country's past and present, and will still be here long after we're gone!

When Christianity will eventually kick the bucket is anyones guess, but the fact that people have claimed Christian reasons for doing good things doesn't negate the fact that people have claimed Christian reasons for doing bad things, and that people have also claimed non-religious reasons for doing. Good people do good things, and bad people do bad things, such is the way of the world.

The Quadratic Equation

MagicMarker wrote: »

Would you prefer to be asked what your religion is if you were ordering a coffee?

I surely would if there was a risk of death, and probably so would you to make sure you did not recieve the last rites.

MagicMarker

MagicMarker wrote: »

Would you prefer to be asked what your religion is if you were ordering a coffee?

No, because it is unlikely that drinking my coffee could potentially be a life-or-death matter (unless it's the crap they serve in Burger King, but that's a whole other story).

efb

Our graveyard is community owned luckily- so the Catholics can't dictate who goes in. I'll be dead I don't care what they do with my body- take anything useful and burn the rest!

byhookorbycrook

Imagine they asked my date of birth,talk about age-ism

efb

To verify who you were, that's what dob is for.

MagicMarker

Deleted User wrote: »

No, because it is unlikely that drinking my coffee could potentially be a life-or-death matter (unless it's the crap they serve in Burger King, but that's a whole other story).

So if you're going for a scan in the hospital you'd prefer to be asked what your religion is? A scan is as likely to kill you as a coffee is, so what's the difference, and why don't Starbucks ask you for your religion before serving you?

nosietoes

I would much rather be asked my religion so that I can tell them that I have none. Was recently in the A&E, wasn't asked anything about my religion and when I went into the clinic they read off a list of details to confirm including my status as a single catholic. I quickly denied the catholic bit, the lady at reception nearly asked me my religion and then just said, shall I leave it blank so? She was nice about it but I was quite pissed that I'm automatically catholic in the eyes of HSE.

Dades

passarellaie wrote: »

Well let me.congratulate all the athiests/agnostics here who proudly declared themselves whatever in hospital.Could I now ask them to take the next step and when they are kicking the bucket get the **** out of Catholic graveyards

Well I for one wish to be cremated and my ashes daubed on peoples foreheads.

passarellaie

Dades wrote: »

Well I for one wish to be cremated and my ashes daubed on peoples foreheads.

good make sure you stick to that as you get older PLEASE

Paparazzo

Was asked this about my son. Simple question asked to everyone who "checks in".

passarellaie wrote: »

Well let me.congratulate all the athiests/agnostics here who proudly declared themselves whatever in hospital.Could I now ask them to take the next step and when they are kicking the bucket get the **** out of Catholic graveyards

What? Are there a large number of athiests dying in graveyards? Surely the guards or an ambulance moves them out?

Ghost Buster

passarellaie wrote: »

good make sure you stick to that as you get older PLEASE

As a devout Christian it saddens me that after managing to get banned from After Hours (a feat!) you must wander into this valley of lost souls spreading your hateful unchristian bile and hatred.. SHAME ON YOU!!!!

iguana

You know that in urban areas, at least, the graveyards are generally municipally owned and ran, right? They might have a saints name but they don't actually have anything to do with the church.

Galvasean

passarellaie wrote: »

Well let me.congratulate all the athiests/agnostics here who proudly declared themselves whatever in hospital.Could I now ask them to take the next step and when they are kicking the bucket get the **** out of Catholic graveyards

Atheist zombies!!! :eek:

iguana

Galvasean wrote: »

Atheist zombies!!! :eek:

If I recall Night of the Living Dead correctly, wasn't the supposition that the dead had risen because hell was finally full of sinners and was rejecting the dead back to earth? The dead atheists would just stay in their coffins as the quiet, darkness is close enough to the nothingness they expected.

Galvasean

iguana wrote: »

If I recall Night of the Living Dead correctly, wasn't the supposition that the dead had risen because hell was finally full of sinners and was rejecting the dead back to earth?

I don't remember the original but in the remake I believe they were caused by radiation from a crashed satellite. Although it's not explained well in the film. Apparently there are different reasons given on different DVD covers.

iguana

Just looked it up. The original Dawn of the Dead's tagline is: "When there's no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth." In the movie it was a voodoo saying which Peter remembers his grandfather telling him.

Dades

Just watched Resident Evil: Afterlife...

At least Milla makes up for the serious lack of zombie action. :pac:

The Quadratic Equation

Dades wrote: »

Well I for one wish to be cremated and my ashes daubed on peoples foreheads.

And may I be the first one to receive them.

For dust you are and to dust you will return.

MagicMarker

MagicMarker wrote: »

So if you're going for a scan in the hospital you'd prefer to be asked what your religion is?

Is that a question or a statement?

MagicMarker wrote: »

A scan is as likely to kill you as a coffee is, so what's the difference, and why don't Starbucks ask you for your religion before serving you?

As it happens, the last two occasions I was in a hospital for scans (both MRI) I wasn't asked my religion. But it is likely that - for very sound reasons indeed - asking the religion of patients is part of the normal data-gathering procedure of hospitals. We could expect hospitals to make exceptions for certain procedures, but this would probably prove more time-consuming and inefficient. At a time when resources are severely limited, expecting hospitals to have variable data collection procedures is, to say the least, a low priority.

Victor

Deleted User wrote: »

As it happens, the last two occasions I was in a hospital for scans (both MRI) I wasn't asked my religion. But it is likely that - for very sound reasons indeed - asking the religion of patients is part of the normal data-gathering procedure of hospitals. We could expect hospitals to make exceptions for certain procedures, but this would probably prove more time-consuming and inefficient. At a time when resources are severely limited, expecting hospitals to have variable data collection procedures is, to say the least, a low priority.

I imagine that once you have attended a specific hospital, any time you visit that hospital again, everything is kept on the same file. Hence no need to ask the basic questions again. If you are attending the same hospital, but a different department, you will be asked to confirm contact details, etc.

Victor

Victor wrote: »

I imagine that once you have attended a specific hospital, any time you visit that hospital again, everything is kept on the same file. Hence no need to ask the basic questions again. If you are attending the same hospital, but a different department, you will be asked to confirm contact details, etc.

I imagine that was the case.

In any case, I can't see what the problem is. Specifically, because I belong to a minority view, it suits me that the question is asked. I can't see how any reasonably-minded atheist would disagree.

Turtwig

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

And may I be the first one to receive them.

For dust you are and to dust you will return.

No, moth to cocoon.

eyescreamcone

The question should be
Do you wish to have a religion listed on your file?
If yes, then which one?
If no, then next question