Irish Times - Proposal to bring train journey times between cities below two hours

Yahew

bk wrote: »

252km, so 2 hours 6 minutes. Goggle recommends 2 hours 30 mins. The reality is probably between those.

However no one lives in a train station. Even if you get the train down to 2 hours, at best you are still probably only going to equal most peoples door to door speed by car.

I would argue the opposite. The time to leave Cork from Kent to the outskirts at rush hour is far less on the train ( a matter of minutes rather than a half an hour) than on a car, unless you live on the Dublin road or that direction.

And even then.

Also are you assuming that a car gets from the Red Cow to Heuston at 70 mph.

AngryLips

For me, if there's a train option I'll always choose Irish Rail over Bus Eireann. The time difference is less important because it's usually a small difference. What's more important is comfort. On that basis it wins hands down over the car also. That said, there's no excuse for intercity services lasting over two hours in this country.

It's probably appropriate to make comparisons with Wales because it's a country with a similar population. Over there the only services at 125miles+ are those to other parts of Britain.

AngryLips

For me, if there's a train option I'll always choose Irish Rail over Bus Eireann. The time difference is less important because it's usually a small difference. What's more important is comfort. On that basis it wins hands down over the car also. That said, there's no excuse for intercity services lasting over two hours in this country.

It's probably appropriate to make comparisons with Wales because it's a country with a similar population. Over there the only services at 125miles+ are those to other parts of Britain.

dubhthach

Wales is abit bigger then the province of Leinster. Surely to use your comparison the trip from Dublin <-> Galway|Cork is equivalent to trips from Wales to other parts of Britain.

The republic's population is 50% greater then Wales (4.5m vs 3m). We are closer to Scotland tbh (they have 700k more at 5.2million)

monument

bk wrote: »

252km, so 2 hours 6 minutes. Goggle recommends 2 hours 30 mins. The reality is probably between those.
However no one lives in a train station. Even if you get the train down to 2 hours, at best you are still probably only going to equal most peoples door to door speed by car.

Added to the second last post above, you're making some false assumptions. ...Where time is really an issue with business trips etc, where the final destination is in the wider city centre or the Docklands, the train help you skip congestion in both Dublin and Cork.

Nobody lives in the train station, but in Dublin a growing amount of people live around them or close to them. Even more live short trips walking, on bicycle, using the bus or Luas, or by car. The expected Dublin Bikes expansion will improve this and Dart Underground -- even if some years away -- will massively improve this again. Generally in Dublin more people live within the M50 than live outside it.

The difference between my argument and yours? I'm saying both work for diffrent people (and rail could work better) while you're saying scrap one mode?

corktina

Yahew wrote: »

I would argue the opposite. The time to leave Cork from Kent to the outskirts at rush hour is far less on the train ( a matter of minutes rather than a half an hour) than on a car, unless you live on the Dublin road or that direction.

And even then.

Also are you assuming that a car gets from the Red Cow to Heuston at 70 mph.

yes, I did mean the time sticking to all the speed limits, however,Kent is on a direct road to the M8 (N8 in fact ) with few holdups and Newlands Cross would be the biggest impediment at the Dublin end, the two M50 junctions involved now being free flow. My estimate would be sub 2.5 hours.

Incidently the speed limit red cow to heuston varies but at no place is 70 mph.(M8 speed limit is 75mph approx.)


The next comparison times needed are from suburb to suburb or city centre to city centre. The car loses out on the second perhaps as parking would need to be found although the city sections at both ends of the train run are pretty lengthy. suburb to suburb the car will win hands down every time over even a 2 hour train journey, because its likely you would do this journey in hardly more than the station to station journey.

LaFlammeRouge

The fast ferry to Holyhead is actually faster than most Irish intercity trains.

dubhthach

Just for a comparison on the Dublin <-> Galway route on Thursday I drove from Sandymount to Salthill. I did in just over 3hours, this included a stop in Athlone for Fuel and a coffee as well as driving across Galway during rush hour (hit Ballybrit about 5:10pm)

The scheduled train service from Heuston to Galway is 2hours and 35minutes (station to station). If I was to get the train I would probably have to leave the house 45minutes before the departure time, add in 2hours 35mins plus 20-30minutes to get from Eyre Square out to Salthill during Rush-hour. By driving I saved myself at least 30 minutes. If I was driving from the area around Heuston it would have been considerably more.

bk

monument wrote: »

Nobody lives in the train station, but in Dublin a growing amount of people live around them or close to them. Even more live short trips walking, on bicycle, using the bus or Luas, or by car. The expected Dublin Bikes expansion will improve this and Dart Underground -- even if some years away -- will massively improve this again. Generally in Dublin more people live within the M50 than live outside it.

I'm one of them, a Corkonian living in that area, you can easily do it in 2hour 20min. However I admit that is Dublin City Center to Cork Suburbs. But I'd imagine that would be true of most people. I can't imagine very few actually going city to city, specially at the Cork end. Cork just doesn't really have that sort of population density. Hell in my experience, about 60% of people get off at Mallow.

As a Corkonian living in Dublin, I've a lot of friends who are the same and while in the past they all took the train, they now all drive instead. Must can do door to door in 2h 15m to 2h 30m to various places in Cork (Douglas, Blackpool, etc.) from various places in Dublin.

monument wrote: »

The difference between my argument and yours? I'm saying both work for diffrent people (and rail could work better) while you're saying scrap one mode?

No, I don't say scrap rail, my position is I don't think it makes sense spending what little money we now have on intercity rail as it will make little difference.

But that doesn't mean scrap it, just leave it as it is.

We should be focusing on reforming Irish Rail first, then when we have more money and IR has been reformed, we can look at it again.

The fast ferry to Holyhead is actually faster than most Irish intercity trains.

I think it is mad that my friend can fly to her home in Poland faster then I can get the train to Cork!! No kidding.

For me, if there's a train option I'll always choose Irish Rail over Bus Eireann. The time difference is less important because it's usually a small difference. What's more important is comfort. On that basis it wins hands down over the car also.

Not to Cork, the bus takes at least 4h 30m as their is no direct non stop bus service. A direct bus would take about 3 hours.

So then the question would be, would you take:
A) Train at 2h 50m €74 return
Bus coach at 3h €25 return

Perhaps for you money is no concern, but I'd imagine for the majority of people they would jump at B.

Specially with the new bus coaches with toilets and free wifi onboard. They are actually very comfortable. Personally I'd rate them at about 80% of the comfort of the train, which given the price difference I think most people would jump at.

Let me put the question a little differently, what do you think would benefit Cork to Dublin commuters more.

A) Knocking 30 minutes off the train.
Knocking 1h 30m off the bus.

I think the majority of commuters would prefer B, specially in these hard economic times.

And the best bit is B cost the tax payer absolutely nothing and can be done pretty much overnight (just bloody well issue the license). While A will cost minimum €175 million and take a few years to achieve.

Really it is madness when you think about it logically.

corktina

the other advantage the bus has is it's all seated. No stress trying to get stray people out of your reserved seat or standing most of the way.

I'd be all for spending on radical improvements IF it could bring Cork within 2 hours of Dublin but I don't think it's possible with the current 100 mph improvements proposed which are too little , too late IMHO.

Biting the bullet and buying new power cars to run the mk4s at higher speed with faster acceleration and better braking , in addition to track and signalling improvements, is the way forward.

GM equipment makes good money in the US secondhand, time to sell up the 201s whilst they are still relatively new, even if only for spares.