Trawler to Sea-Going Live-aboard

Fukuyama

Hey guys,

I'm 100% new to this so be gentle. Basically, it's been a dream of mine over the past few years to live aboard my own boat on a permanent basis. So instead of paying rent I could own a valuable asset, go anywhere etc...

I've been looking at trawler conversions. To live comfortable on a permanent basis I have been advised (on other sites) that 40+ foot is a good size to go with.

I'd like to convert a trawler to a live-aboard doing much of the work myself. No radical work on the inside. Open it up a little and update the look. On the outside I'd get rid of much of the large fishing hardware and make some minor alterations to accommodate outdoor seating etc...

I'm no stranger to hard labour and DIY. And obviously any huge operations such as removing large parts would be done professionally.

Take for example this: TRAWLER.

She's a 50 foot trawler for €10,000. Would she be in good condition for that price?

Also, and I'm aware I'll probably be hung drawn and quartered for this, but how difficult is it to skipper a vessel of that size? As regards manoeuvring in marinas etc... My experience is limited to week-long cruising on the Shannon in 34' cruisers I'm afraid. Do you need licences? Any courses etc...? I've seen some on sailing.ie .

This is something I'd like to get going on in 2012. My dream is to be able to live aboard her in comfort as well as take her out to sea accross to Wales, England etc...

Thoughts?

Thanks!

-- Dean.

fergal.b

Hi Dean, interesting project and one I have thought about doing my self as I have seen a lot of old trawlers beside me just scraped as the fishing has died off. There is a lot of money involved from the time you buy the boat like marine surveyor,transport, crane hire if needed and storage. Then getting it insulated and maybe adding ballast to counter act any weight you add above the waterline, after that and a few things I left out it's plain sailing leaving you with empty pockets and a work load that will never end
You will have plenty time to do a BOAT,VHF and NAVIGATION course over the rebuild that will come handy when your finished "also a bow thruster might help" Have a look at dnme's post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056217528 and it will give you a small insight into whats ahead of you.
I hope you do make a go of it and would love to see how you get on just take your time picking your boat as there are lots of good deals to be had, here is one http://www.apolloduck.ie/advert.phtml?id=205480 steel boats are a lot less work than wood just something to think about. "I like wood"
Best of luck, I look forward to following your post.

Fukuyama

fergal.b wrote: »

Hi Dean, interesting project and one I have thought about doing my self as I have seen a lot of old trawlers beside me just scraped as the fishing has died off. There is a lot of money involved from the time you buy the boat like marine surveyor,transport, crane hire if needed and storage. Then getting it insulated and maybe adding ballast to counter act any weight you add above the waterline, after that and a few things I left out it's plain sailing leaving you with empty pockets and a work load that will never end
You will have plenty time to do a BOAT,VHF and NAVIGATION course over the rebuild that will come handy when your finished "also a bow thruster might help" Have a look at dnme's post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056217528 and it will give you a small insight into whats ahead of you.
I hope you do make a go of it and would love to see how you get on just take your time picking your boat as there are lots of good deals to be had, here is one http://www.apolloduck.ie/advert.phtml?id=205480 steel boats are a lot less work than wood just something to think about. "I like wood"
Best of luck, I look forward to following your post.

Thanks for the response Fergal!

Been looking into the services at Malahide Marina and they have a boat lift and do painting etc.. as well as adding bow thrusters and metal work on boats. Seems promising.

Yeah I plan on doing some courses in VHF, navigation and boat handling.

My main problem now is my lack of experience in identifying boats. Say for example that crusier you linked to, would that be sea-worthy or best suited to inland waterways?

If I could pick up a trawler for say ten grand, would a further eight or none grand be enough to remove unwanted hardware, add ballasts and slightly change the interior with a couple other things such as defouling and thursters?

neris

Have you factored in the costs of berthing a boat year on year when your living aboard? and also the cost of a dry dock during the conversion? Converting a trawler to a cruiser or at least habitable will be a long process. I know 2 guys who took on a project for a wealthy owners a few years back of converting an old hulk of a thing into a comfortable cruiser. Both guys have considerable experience working on boats but they were putting 6 day weeks for over a year. Now the boat they were working on was in a worse state then the 1 in your pic but all the small jobs such as wiring, plumbing, engine repairs, wood/metal work all add up. The boat in Valentia that Fergal posted would probably be alot easier to handle and is a cruiser so while lots of work its not a conversion project. Best of luck

Fukuyama

neris wrote: »

Have you factored in the costs of berthing a boat year on year when your living aboard? and also the cost of a dry dock during the conversion? Converting a trawler to a cruiser or at least habitable will be a long process. I know 2 guys who took on a project for a wealthy owners a few years back of converting an old hulk of a thing into a comfortable cruiser. Both guys have considerable experience working on boats but they were putting 6 day weeks for over a year. Now the boat they were working on was in a worse state then the 1 in your pic but all the small jobs such as wiring, plumbing, engine repairs, wood/metal work all add up. The boat in Valentia that Fergal posted would probably be alot easier to handle and is a cruiser so while lots of work its not a conversion project. Best of luck

Hi

Yup I've factored those in. I plan on living on the boat ASAP. Say for example if I purchased the ten grand trawler I linked. The first thing I would do is get it de-fouled, painted, fishing hardware removed and in a berth. Then begin living on it right away. Other work will have to be done over the course of a year or two. Altering the interior plan. Making small changes to the exterior etc...

I know this won't be cheap but this boat will be my home so I'm looking at it as more of a house renovation instead of an expensive project

RobinEire

G,day Dean,

The Quote, "A boat is a hole in the water you pour money into" is unfortunately true, however living aboard, you have a sea view you can change whenever you fancy, and if you dont like the neighbours well the next bay is only a bit away.

Its definately a buyers market at the moment so there are some great deals around. Decommisioned fishing vessels are selling for peanuts really.
I am a ship captain by trade and have only retired from it due to having a defibrulator fitted for a heart complaint or I would still be chugging around on small ships. Dont head out to sea without knowing what you are doing, do some navigation courses, a vhf radio operators certificate, and always have charts for the area you are sailing in. If you cant afford to buy full size charts ( like me) sign up with visitmyharbour.com and you have access to over 600 UK and overseas charts that you can capture and print out. The charts are all corrected up to date and I save my screenshots to a pendrive and have a friend with a B3 printer print them out for me before I go anywhere.

Costs involved even if your boat never moves from a mooring are anti foul, and slipping once a year, deisel costs to keep batteries charged and engine maint, diver to check your mooring ( at least annually ) some bays with a lot of fresh water running into sea water get an electric charge in the water that dissolves swivels and shackles really quickly, dingy, paint, the list goes on and on.

I love boats but the weather can suck big time and believe me you will have sleepless nights as well as bonny sunsets.

Good luck on your boat search

fergal.b

I think if you want to live on it asap you would be better off looking for one that had been converted and just needs a bit of work. Have a look in the UK even with shipping or having it sailed over it could still work out cheeper.
Here's another one http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/boats/2449863 just keep looking something will come along that will suit your needs.

Fukuyama

fergal.b wrote: »

I think if you want to live on it asap you would be better off looking for one that had been converted and just needs a bit of work. Have a look in the UK even with shipping or having it sailed over it could still work out cheeper.
Here's another one http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/boats/2449863 just keep looking something will come along that will suit your needs.

My good sir, I must pay you a compliment:

You're a dab hand at finding a bargain!

Edit: Are tugs sea-going? Most would spend their lives in a harbour so would they be capable of crossing say the Irish sea in an economical fashion? To the best of my knowlege they're designed for pulling power instead of speed.

fergal.b

Dean0088 wrote: »

My good sir, I must pay you a compliment:

You're a dab hand at finding a bargain!

Getting the boat is the cheep part it's the next few years that will cost you :eek:

This might give you an idea.
http://www.trawlersandtrawlering.com/news/charis,alobsterb.html

Fukuyama

RobinEire wrote: »

G,day Dean,

The Quote, "A boat is a hole in the water you pour money into" is unfortunately true, however living aboard, you have a sea view you can change whenever you fancy, and if you dont like the neighbours well the next bay is only a bit away.

Its definately a buyers market at the moment so there are some great deals around. Decommisioned fishing vessels are selling for peanuts really.
I am a ship captain by trade and have only retired from it due to having a defibrulator fitted for a heart complaint or I would still be chugging around on small ships. Dont head out to sea without knowing what you are doing, do some navigation courses, a vhf radio operators certificate, and always have charts for the area you are sailing in. If you cant afford to buy full size charts ( like me) sign up with visitmyharbour.com and you have access to over 600 UK and overseas charts that you can capture and print out. The charts are all corrected up to date and I save my screenshots to a pendrive and have a friend with a B3 printer print them out for me before I go anywhere.

Costs involved even if your boat never moves from a mooring are anti foul, and slipping once a year, deisel costs to keep batteries charged and engine maint, diver to check your mooring ( at least annually ) some bays with a lot of fresh water running into sea water get an electric charge in the water that dissolves swivels and shackles really quickly, dingy, paint, the list goes on and on.

I love boats but the weather can suck big time and believe me you will have sleepless nights as well as bonny sunsets.

Good luck on your boat search

Thanks for all this advice!

+1 on the courses. I'd never undertake any kind of long voyage without having a wealth of experience and certification under my belt!

Thanks for all the advice so far guys. If anyone else has any thoughts on this, reccomendations on vessels or comments I'd love to hear from you!

Fukuyama

fergal.b wrote: »

Getting the boat is the cheep part it's the next few years that will cost you :eek:

This might give you an idea.
http://www.trawlersandtrawlering.com/news/charis,alobsterb.html

Coincidentally I read that article a few weeks back! :P They really finished that boat to such a high standard it's amazing!

Tabnabs

It's a wonderful dream Dean and I wish you the best of luck. TBH, I think you'll need to quadruple your renovation budget to get it up to a liveable standard. The bow thruster alone will be €2-3k

Have a look here at the standard of work required and the kinds of prices these boats command.

http://houseboats.apolloduck.co.uk/listings.phtml?cid=253

ISAW

Here is a 35 footer for 6k that will take a fair bit of doing up but seems to be structurally sound.
It is also a sailboat so will save you on fuel for going off shore.
But you will have to put a deal into kitting out the inside. But I would hope it is mostly DIY and not structural stuff. at least you wont have to remove stuff just refit and paint and add maybe some safety gear..

http://www.andyseedhouseboats.co.uk/sales/boatlist2008.php?cat=1

Excluding the buying and rigging and internal fitting you are niave on the "cost me nothing" idea.

Look into where you will have it in Ireland and cost berthing.
If you are going to Wales/ England/Scotland look into similar costs.
Try and work out variable costs such as how much fuel per mile and fixed ones e.g. how much annual scrub, rig replacements, insurance, other licenses, training etc. How much for fuel or electricity /water laundry etc. when you are berthed for the winter.

If you have a job that allows it (or no fulltime job) consider berthing for a good part of the year abroad e.g France Spain where fees are lower. You might even winter on the dry where you do the work on her and rent say a Portuguese apartment in the same place for the Winter where you can get them for less than 40 euros a week e.g. something like
http://www.pureportugalholidays.com/listman/listings/l0096.html
It all depends on your availability.

The UK isn't so sticky but in France they do seem to check on accreditation. You would need an ICC or equivalent. And a radio course and First Aid course. If you are going down canals you will need a CEVNI endorsement on the ICC. In Holland there is also an additional requirement.

Slig

Dean0088 wrote: »

Coincidentally I read that article a few weeks back! :P They really finished that boat to such a high standard it's amazing!

Brilliant idea and the best of luck but I think you would probably be best to spend the 18k on a half decent boat to start with that has habitable living accomodation, heating, rudimentary electrics and a working engine. After that you can improve the boat as you see fit and eventually move up the ladder to something better until you can afford to get the hull you want and fit it out as you please. The last thing you would want is to end up with a rotting hull that you cant afford to fit out properly, isnt sufficent to live in and is also costing you a huge amount of money just to keep moored and maintained.

As a house designer its the same advice I'd give to new clients starting off. Dont blow a huge amount of money on a massive house with features you dont need and wont use and that you'll end up paying for for the next 30 years into the future. It takes, on average, 3 houses before you get it right so dont blow the budget on the first and compromise the last:D

alexlyons

In terms of qualification and costs, having dealt with teaching people and looking at what courses are necessary for almost 10 years, I'd recommend the following. These are approximate worst case costs and should be lower but will give you an idea. I'll PM you with more info about the courses

VHF Module 1 and 2 - €250
Powerboat Level 1 & 2 - €300
Advanced Powerboat (Level 3) - €310
First Aid - €100
Sea Survival - €210
Navigation - €150

Essentially these are the courses require for you commercial endorsement, which is not necessary for you to have, but the courses are. Once you have the courses, you could apply for the endorsement if you wanted.

As mentioned before, the International Certificate of Competency (ICC) is an absolute must. You can get that on the back of Powerboat level 1 and 2 and can get an inland water ways accreditation on it with the CEVNI exam if you will be taking it inland. This licenses you to vessels up to 24 meters in length and 80 gross tons.

What some of the less obvious courses are:

VHF is broken down into two sections and taught with a combined course for both. Teach's you how to use a VHF radio set and is very useful info, as well as being a legal requirement if you want to operate a VHF radio, which you should. 5 evenings.

Powerboat Level 1 and 2 is another combined course teaching you the very basic of boat handling. 2 day course

Advanced Powerboat (Level 3) Firthers you boating ability with night passages, search procedures etc and I would think its a must if you are thinking of longer passages.

Sea Survival teaches you how to survive in the event of an emergency and help protect the lives of those on your boat.

Navigation teaches you how to use charts to navigate your route. Essential course, you can't rely on GPS. This is a prerequisite for Level 3 Advanced.

TBH if you are living on the boat and using it the way you say you will, you definitely should have all these courses. Theres nothing worse than being unprepared. We rescue enough of them as it is!!

All the best with the project, start a thread and update it with your progress once you get the boat!

mr.mickels

I thought most live-aboards were of the wind-powered variety.
How much diesel do trawler engines use per average day of use?

Yawlboy

The other potential problem with converting a big old trawler is the air draft (i.e. how tall it is). If the air draft is too high you wont get under many bridges and you won't be able to use canals and inland waterways - if that is what you want to do.

forsaleireland

Yawlboy wrote: »

The other potential problem with converting a big old trawler is the air draft (i.e. how tall it is). If the air draft is too high you wont get under many bridges and you won't be able to use canals and inland waterways - if that is what you want to do.

it's a trawler it's not meant to go on canals or waterways,anyways ya cut the whole lot down if wanted...:rolleyes:

alexlyons

forsaleireland wrote: »

it's a trawler it's not meant to go on canals or waterways,anyways ya cut the whole lot down if wanted...:rolleyes:

its also not meant to be lived on permanently and used for pleasure...

forsaleireland

alexlyons wrote: »

its also not meant to be lived on permanently and used for pleasure...

i have worked on trawlers for many years/spanish and irish/i have seen many people making a trawler there home and still there is many people i know that still live on them also work therms for many a year,i could go down to howth or castlebere and find the same situation

it is not that difficult to make a trawler a home on water,very easy actually...there is money to be made on parts of a trawler to fund it... :cool:

alexlyons

you missed the point

forsaleireland

alexlyons wrote: »

you missed the point

so your the expert....:eek:

neris

forsaleireland wrote: »

i have worked on trawlers for many years/spanish and irish/i have seen many people making a trawler there home and still there is many people i know that still live on them also work therms for many a year,i could go down to howth or castlebere and find the same situation

it is not that difficult to make a trawler a home on water,very easy actually...there is money to be made on parts of a trawler to fund it... :cool:

there were a few converted trawlers around Marinas in Dublin a few years back. not sure if there still there as 1 or 2 in dun laoghaire were rumoured to be owned by a now bust building contractor and there was another 1 in malahide last year that looked like a very good conversion. it might still be there and worth a look at

Yawlboy

forsaleireland wrote: »

it's a trawler it's not meant to go on canals or waterways,anyways ya cut the whole lot down if wanted...:rolleyes:

Precisely :rolleyes::rolleyes:

fergal.b

Here is an interesting one for you.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300592228225?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2667wt_1141

There is also a chap beside me doing up a 106ft mine sweeper for the last few years but he's not getting very far. :eek:

ScabbyLeg

Ha! Old Murdoch there looks like one ugly beast from the outside... but strangely like a beach house from the inside

TristanPeter

I lived on a Dutch barge for about half a year. I loved it and I would do it again. There was a few problems though...

Firstly, finding an appropriate mooring was the biggest issue. My mooring was only temporary so had to leave eventually.

Secondly, things like mains power/water and a sewage connection were a real headache. I was using a generator and a battery bank which is not very practical.

I still have the barge though It's beautiful but I don't live on her anymore I'm sad to say

mr.mickels

fergal.b wrote: »

Here is an interesting one for you.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300592228225?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2667wt_1141

There is also a chap beside me doing up a 106ft mine sweeper for the last few years but he's not getting very far. :eek:

What would the fuel bill be for a cross channel trip in that???

mr.mickels

TristanPeter wrote: »

I lived on a Dutch barge for about half a year. I loved it and I would do it again. There was a few problems though...

Firstly, finding an appropriate mooring was the biggest issue. My mooring was only temporary so had to leave eventually.

Secondly, things like mains power/water and a sewage connection were a real headache. I was using a generator and a battery bank which is not very practical.

I still have the barge though It's beautiful but I don't live on her anymore I'm sad to say

did you convert the boat yourself, can you post pictures. What does the maintenance involve in one of those to keep it in good condition.
Are barges only for inland waterways?

fergal.b

mr.mickels wrote: »

What would the fuel bill be for a cross channel trip in that???

I don't think he used much of his own fuel, have a look at these he's didn't have a good time with her.
http://www.rnli.org.uk/who_we_are/press_centre/news_releases/news_release_detail?articleid=469227

http://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/4537841.print/

http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-home/newsandpublications/press-releases.htm?id=C7D4F59E667008BC&m=10&y=2008

TristanPeter

mr.mickels wrote: »

did you convert the boat yourself, can you post pictures. What does the maintenance involve in one of those to keep it in good condition.
Are barges only for inland waterways?

I didn't convert it myself. I bought it already converted as a live-aboard with the intention of converting it to a restaurant.

From my own experience I have found maintenance levels depend very much on where it's moored. Painting and rust are problems. You need to ensure you have the correct anodes fitted to the hull.

Dutch barges can generally handle coastal cruising in mild conditions. My one was built for operation on the Zuider Zee (spelling) which whilst enclosed may as well be a sea as it's so big and exposed. She sailed from France to England and on to Ireland under her own steam. It was rough in places I'll admit. Definitely wouldn't like to be caught in a gale. They have no keel but the flat bottom is pretty stable nonetheless.

I'll try to find some photos