clamped while on mercy mission

squod

slimjimmc wrote: »

What stupid advice!!!
NCPS made a complaint of criminal damage by her brother so the Garda was fully within his rights and duty to warn her brother that participating or even intending to participate in such activity could result in his arrest.

Huh?

“Without lawful excuse”.

I'd say being illegally clamped could be a lawful excuse.........

MugMugs

OP nobody here can advocate Criminal Damage. It's a disgrace if people do. However I can tell what I would do. I would get a bolt cutters and a friend. Have the friend keep watch for an NCPS van while I cut off the clamp. Then I would bring the clamp on a lovely holiday to the sea side. Or if you're a bit of an Eco warrior, recycle it as scrap metal.

firefly2327

squod wrote: »

I'd say being illegally clamped could be a lawful excuse.........

I'm confused though... and here's a question that will probably raise some eyebrows and show how naiive I am :rolleyes: but if it really is illegal for them to clamp me the way that they did, why are NCPS in business and allowed to be in business, if all they do is clamp people ''illegally'' in private carparks on behalf of management companies? Surely if the law was totally against them they wouldn't be able to operate?

jimmycrackcorm

Nothing stopping you from having your car towed away yourself if you had some way of doing so.

firefly2327

firefly2327 wrote: »

I'm confused though... and here's a question that will probably raise some eyebrows and show how naiive I am :rolleyes: but if it really is illegal for them to clamp me the way that they did, why are NCPS in business and allowed to be in business, if all they do is clamp people ''illegally'' in private carparks on behalf of management companies? Surely if the law was totally against them they wouldn't be able to operate?

It's a grey area of Irish law. No one has gone through the courts yet. But as soon as someone goes through the courts everything will come to light and it will soon be stoped I think.

squod

firefly2327 wrote: »

I'm confused though... and here's a question that will probably raise some eyebrows and show how naiive I am :rolleyes: but if it really is illegal for them to clamp me the way that they did, why are NCPS in business and allowed to be in business, if all they do is clamp people ''illegally'' in private carparks on behalf of management companies? Surely if the law was totally against them they wouldn't be able to operate?

Welcome to Ireland. There's even illegal casino's operating within twenty feet of Garda stations over here. Don't trust anyone.

firefly2327

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Nothing stopping you from having your car towed away yourself if you had some way of doing so.

Oh I'd love to, believe me. Car is parked facing and close to a wall though, and clamp on front :mad:

David09

Shame you don't know anyone who welds, fabricates steel or does truck maintenance.

10 seconds of careful use with oxy-acethylene gas cutting would have that clamp detached.

Most operators keep the gas bottles in the back of their vans. Ideal for situations like this.

Fishtits

Parked in a clamp area, got clamped... whats the problem? the world doesn't stop turning for anyone...

johnos1984

Fishtits wrote: »

Parked in a clamp area, got clamped... whats the problem? the world doesn't stop turning for anyone...

:rolleyes:

One of these days someones going to put your horse out to pasture

firefly2327

Fishtits wrote: »

Parked in a clamp area, got clamped... whats the problem? the world doesn't stop turning for anyone...

I agree, the world indeed does not stop turning for anyone. However, if everyone had your attitude and just turned the other way when bad things happened and failed to question or try to change the situation, we'd still be living in the dark ages.:)

langdang

Fishtits wrote: »

Parked in a clamp area, got clamped... whats the problem? the world doesn't stop turning for anyone...

AND Mother OK, crisis averted, etc.

Agree 100%.

Priorities, like!

ceegee

Out of curiosity, has there been any examples in Irish courts where clamping has been judged to be illegal? Or that removing the clamp is legal?
Seems a commonly accepted fact in this forum that i havent seen elsewhere.

mikemac

ceegee wrote: »

Out of curiosity, has there been any examples in Irish courts where clamping has been judged to be illegal? Or that removing the clamp is legal?
Seems a commonly accepted fact in this forum that i havent seen elsewhere.

Yes, there has

Judge ruled clamping illegal at WIT 18/1/2007
Judge William Harnett ruled at Waterford district court last week that WIT has no authority to clamp the Vehicles of people who park illegally at its cork road campus.

The case originated when a clamp was removed from a car by its owner on January 5th last year. The judge ruled that the owner was entitled to remove something that was stuck to his car by whatever means and if it damages his car, he was entitled to claim damages.

While there where notices up in the car park informing motorists that clamping was in operation, Judge Harnett ruled that there were no laws to support that notice before dismissing the case.

WITSU expects that WIT will seek legal clarification on this matter and that clamping will continue for now. WITSU welcomes the ruling that clamping is illegal, however does not encourage motorists to park in dangerous or unhelpful positions.

kirving

Fishtits wrote: »

Parked in a clamp area, got clamped... whats the problem? the world doesn't stop turning for anyone...

Just the wheels of her car. I think that the offence of immobilising someones car(who needs it for work) and then effectively comitting extortion by suggesting that the clamp was damaged is far worse than the "criminal damage" (I mean come on!) in cutting a chain link.

VolvoMan

I'm relieved to see that at least the OP hasn't paid the bastards yet. Cut the fcuking thing off!

By the way, what proof did NCPS have that the OP's brother did it in the first place? Do they not need proper evidence before they go making wild accusations like that?

langdang

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Just the wheels of her car. I think that the offence of immobilising someones car(who needs it for work) and then effectively comitting extortion by suggesting that the clamp was damaged is far worse than the "criminal damage" (I mean come on!) in cutting a chain link.

Again - cost(or risk) versus benefit...
Sooner or later that's what it all comes down to..

firefly2327

Just found this post by smccarrick from Dec 2010

Clamping on private property is not specifically legislated on at present (though it is proposed to legislate in this area).

At the moment a Management Company may apply a clamp on a car in order to impose a lien or hold on your car pending the payment of a penalty.

This can be legally done, providing there is sufficient signage to warn drivers that clamping is in operation. If signs are not there or are not obvious to the average motorist then the clamping agency could be guilty of creating a nuisance, a trespass to your property and the unlawful interference with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle (normally used used in car theft). If sufficient warning is not given, the clamping agency, may, expose itself to both civil liability and also to criminal prosecution. A reasonable defense to removing a private clamp is that you were taking reasonable steps to abate the nuisance/trespass and retake possession of your car which was unlawfully interfered with.

If there are sufficient signs and the clamp was lawfully applied then you may be liable for prosecution for criminal damage done to property (formerly known as malicious damage).

Normally people who feel they are being unfairly clamped, are advised to pay the fee and have recorded on the receipt that they are paying 'without prejudice to the right to sue for its return and fair and reasonable compensation for the inconvenience'.

If a clamping company and/or Management Company make a complaint to the Gardai- the person who removed the clamp would be advised to see a criminal solicitor first and only furnish a statement under their advisement. Normally such a statement would be based on the argument that the person who removed the clamp was simply 'abating a nuisance, without intent to cause unnecessary damage', however if clear and present signage is displayed, it is highly likely that damages would be awarded against them.

Clamping on public property is entirely a different matter. END OF QUOTE

So now I'm fuzzy on this again.

firefly2327

VolvoMan wrote: »

I'm relieved to see that at least the OP hasn't paid the bastards yet. Cut the fcuking thing off!

By the way, what proof did NCPS have that the OP's brother did it in the first place? Do they not need proper evidence before they go making wild accusations like that?

They found a tool near the car, a saw or something, so they said. Considering bro was using tools to gain access to apartment and repair window afterwards, there were tools of his floating around. He was parked close to me and both of us parked close to the window, so I can't see their argument having any real substance

x in the city

firefly2327 wrote: »

I was clamped on Saturday night by NCPS while on a genuine emergency mercy mission, at which the Gardai were in attendance. I hadn’t been able to get in touch with my mother for two days and became worried about her due to her medical condition. My brother lives across the road from her and rang to say that there was evidence that she was inside her ground-floor apartment but could not respond. I immediately drove to her residence and as there was no parking out front <MYEYES>(double yellow lines) I drove to the rear of her apartment and parked 30-40 yards from her window in the residents only carpark, where no individual parking spots are marked. Having seen the evidence for myself I, shaking, rang the Gardai and asked them to come as we wished to break into the apartment. I went across the road to take care of my brothers kids while he, with Garda assistance, gained access through the rear window. When I rang about half and hour later, I found out my mother had indeed been inside and unable to respond, and further more was told by my brother that my car had been clamped. I ran over to the clampers to ask why and they said I had no parking permit. I explained the emergency situation, they said they didn’t know that it was my car. Absolute rubbish! My brother (who was still there repairing the window, the Gardai having left) told them from the start. Then they said that if he hadn’t had such an attitude, they may not have clamped me…… seriously. So, 120 euro to get my car back.
It gets worse. NCPS left, then I left to borrow a car to use to retrieve the belongings from my car. When I returned, NCPS and Gardai were there. NCPS said someone had tried to break clamp off my car so fined me an extra 65 euro. They accused my brother and gardai threatened to arrest him. So, in the presence of the Gardai and NCPS I rang NCPS controller and explained situation and debated reason behind my parking there. Gardai were willing to confirm to controller the nature of the emergency situation. Controller was rude and unhelpful. Refused to negotiate and when I asked him politely to stop calling me ‘Mam’ he said he I will call you Mam. Ignorant sod.
Anyways, any suggestions as to what I should do, without getting in trouble with the law? This is important, I really don’t want any criminal record. I do need to do some maintenance to my car (UK reg and MOT due soon…). Front wheels need looking at. If I remove clamped wheel clamp remains on car as it is attached to something in axle area. Am unemployed following redundancy and not claiming state benefits so am officially skint! Was looking into selling car due to finances so may have to abandon the car to NCPS now. My first car and am devastated…. Plus seriously out of pocket.
If I had the finances I would take this all the way to the courts, as high as I needed to go. These guys are ruthless.

.

firefly2327

x in the city wrote: »

.

I don't understand you post, are you calling me a liar re the lack of parking out front? There are 3-4 spaces marked, taken by residents or visitors. Elsewhere are double yellow lines. Parking in these areas would cause a public obstruction, including potential restriction to the access of emergency vechicles!

msg11

firefly2327 wrote: »

Just found this post by smccarrick from Dec 2010

Clamping on private property is not specifically legislated on at present (though it is proposed to legislate in this area).

At the moment a Management Company may apply a clamp on a car in order to impose a lien or hold on your car pending the payment of a penalty.

This can be legally done, providing there is sufficient signage to warn drivers that clamping is in operation. If signs are not there or are not obvious to the average motorist then the clamping agency could be guilty of creating a nuisance, a trespass to your property and the unlawful interference with the mechanism of a mechanically propelled vehicle (normally used used in car theft). If sufficient warning is not given, the clamping agency, may, expose itself to both civil liability and also to criminal prosecution. A reasonable defense to removing a private clamp is that you were taking reasonable steps to abate the nuisance/trespass and retake possession of your car which was unlawfully interfered with.

If there are sufficient signs and the clamp was lawfully applied then you may be liable for prosecution for criminal damage done to property (formerly known as malicious damage).

Normally people who feel they are being unfairly clamped, are advised to pay the fee and have recorded on the receipt that they are paying 'without prejudice to the right to sue for its return and fair and reasonable compensation for the inconvenience'.

If a clamping company and/or Management Company make a complaint to the Gardai- the person who removed the clamp would be advised to see a criminal solicitor first and only furnish a statement under their advisement. Normally such a statement would be based on the argument that the person who removed the clamp was simply 'abating a nuisance, without intent to cause unnecessary damage', however if clear and present signage is displayed, it is highly likely that damages would be awarded against them.

Clamping on public property is entirely a different matter. END OF QUOTE

So now I'm fuzzy on this again.

That's all good and well. But can I say one thing, just because someone clamps your car. Dose not mean you are the one to remove the clamp.

If I was to remove there claim which they placed on my car without permission then I will remove it. If they then start to accuse me of removing said clamp from my car with out evidence then, I would be in a position to sue them for slander against myself. I can see it in courth now, but judge ' I didn't remove the clamp , I just came back from the shop and it was gone. I though NCPS seen sense and removed the clamp.'

Just cut it off, leave it there. There a bunch of morons.

I would love to get a clamp and clamp there van and ask them for a release fee for been such a pain in the arse too everyone.

Anan1

firefly2327 wrote: »

They found a tool near the car, a saw or something, so they said. Considering bro was using tools to gain access to apartment and repair window afterwards, there were tools of his floating around. He was parked close to me and both of us parked close to the window, so I can't see their argument having any real substance

Did your brother deny ownership of the saw to the Gardaí? Did the Gardaí take the saw with them?

-Chris-

x in the city wrote: »

.

What's your point?

firefly2327

Anan1 wrote: »

Did your brother deny ownership of the saw to the Gardaí? Did the Gardaí take the saw with them?

They took the saw yes.

Anan1

firefly2327 wrote: »

They took the saw yes.

Did your brother admit to owning the saw?

dougie-lampkin

slimjimmc wrote: »

What stupid advice!!!
NCPS made a complaint of criminal damage by her brother so the Garda was fully within his rights and duty to warn her brother that participating or even intending to participate in such activity could result in his arrest.

It's not criminal damage if NCPS forfeit ownership of the clamp, which they have done by making it the OP's property. They can't give her the clamp and still claim to have lawful custody of it.

How does it make sense to you that any random stranger can immobilise your car in a public place, but you aren't allowed to remove it unless you pay them an extortionate sum of money?

It's not my fault the Gardai in question (and you it seems) aren't aware of the law surrounding illegal clamping.

Mr. Presentable

firefly2327 wrote: »

Oh don't worry, everything on the car is kosher, tax, mot and insurance all up to date at present (all UK and fully covered in Europe).

Be thankful they didn't report the car to Revenue while they were at it.

firefly2327

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Be thankful they didn't report the car to Revenue while they were at it.

They can report the car to Revenue if they like, there's nothing to report. My insurance allows up to 90 days outside the UK per annum, and a UK reg car can remain with a UK reg in the Republic for up to 12 months, legally. I'm 100% positive of all this, no question.

So no, I'm not thankful of this, I don't need to worry on that account Mr. Presentable

firefly2327

dougie-lampkin wrote: »

It's not criminal damage if NCPS forfeit ownership of the clamp, which they have done by making it the OP's property. They can't give her the clamp and still claim to have lawful custody of it.

How does it make sense to you that any random stranger can immobilise your car in a public place, but you aren't allowed to remove it unless you pay them an extortionate sum of money?

It's not my fault the Gardai in question (and you it seems) aren't aware of the law surrounding illegal clamping.

I've contacted FLAC today and they basically said that the company were within their right to clamp my car and they advised paying the fee, or calling NCPS and negotiating. Paying the fee isn't an option, I can't afford it, so I called NCPS again. They are adamant that I must pay the 185 euro, non negotiable. I explained to them that the car would be on the premises permanently then, they said that's fine.........
Looks like my bicycle is going to get more use from now on. Having put on extra weight lately I'm looking at that as a positive I guess..