Rivalry between voluntary organisations

Janet1986

Has anyone noticed the amount of rivalry between voluntary organisations?

Especially the redcross and the civil defense.

They are all voluntary organisations and should work together in my opinion.

miju

What voluntary you in yourself? In relation to your question cant say I have to be honest.

I mean you only have to look at the JVCC we're all the voluntaries worked together without major issue and Obama was more of the same and the likes of OMAC and Johns in Croke Park during concerts.

Then look at Electric Picnic this weekend you have OMAC and the Johns working side by side.

Voluntaries are working side by side increasingly really

sgt.bilko

We all have a bit of banter between ourselves but at at the end of the day, we all do the same job when dealing with a casualty, we just wear a different uniform.

The JVCC was a prime example during the snowy days a few months ago!

DesertCreat_15

Janet1986 wrote: »

Has anyone noticed the amount of rivalry between voluntary organisations?

Especially the redcross and the civil defense.

They are all voluntary organisations and should work together in my opinion.

In my opinion it was more like "Us and them" kind of attitude, not so much rivalry, that's based on my county in particular.

After 5 years with CD I moved to the IRC. So far the training and equipment is on a whole different level compared to the CD and what I mean by that is the weekly training/scenarios are brilliant (as it turns out much needed) and the equipment they have is far better than the CD.

Once a particular medical course was completed with CD there was never any weekly or monthly casualty training/refreshing compared to the IRC's minimum of an hour a week of proper constructive training scenarios.

Please bear in mind I am basing my reply based on the casualty section and on one particular county.

Janet1986

Civil defense myself.

I will give you an example.

There was a rugby match on last friday in Limerick. A garda went to the civil defense for first aid assistance because an elderly man fell and hit his head outside thomand park. The civil defense rang for a hse ambulance rather than asking for the redcross help because they didn't want to give them 'their' patient! Even tho the redcross had three ambulances on the grounds.

(i wasn't on duty)

If a person from CD and Irc go for a job with the hse they will have to work together :mad:

flazio

OK, I agree that they should have at least asked the Red Cross if they could help but the fact is the collapse happened outside the grounds and the IRC's cover area is inside. On public ground, such as roads and streets, the responsibility for medical cover lies with the HSE or DFB unless the relevant council authority employs the assistance of the voluntary service. If the voluntary service is unable to provide adequate care for the case presented to them, they must seek assistance from the next higher level responder, in this case the HSE paramedics. It's not rivalry, it's protocol.

murf313

^ beat me to it ^

Perhaps the patient needed an emergency ambulance. ie their injuries required a paramedic or ap interventions. Its unlikely a voluntary ambulance would have the adequate responders (2 paramedics or above) to transport in an emergency.

Mycroft H

Killarney Racecourse has IRC, OMAC and Civ Def working side by side on the same duty, its nice to see things like that.

True there is a big attitude of us vs. them and I think it gets stronger the closer you get to the city, as there is more units and there fighting for fewer duties.

Electric Picnic will be interesting to see how things work, SJA and OMAC working side by side

miju

BX 19 wrote: »

Electric Picnic will be interesting to see how things work, SJA and OMAC working side by side

Wouldn't imagine there would be any issue really. In Croke Park theres been a few times when the Johnnies have asked OMAC to go up into the stands to assist them with a patient due to clinical levels etc.

Mycroft H

miju wrote: »

Wouldn't imagine there would be any issue really. In Croke Park theres been a few times when the Johnnies have asked OMAC to go up into the stands to assist them with a patient due to clinical levels etc.

TBH neither do I, Oxygen worked well enough with Civil defence and OMAC, where the same thing happend, OMAC stepped in to give a hand to them on the campsite

Janet1986

Janet1986 wrote: »

Civil defense myself.

I will give you an example.

There was a rugby match on last friday in Limerick. A garda went to the civil defense for first aid assistance because an elderly man fell and hit his head outside thomand park. The civil defense rang for a hse ambulance rather than asking for the redcross help because they didn't want to give them 'their' patient! Even tho the redcross had three ambulances on the grounds.

(i wasn't on duty)

If a person from CD and Irc go for a job with the hse they will have to work together :mad:

AFAIK that's an insurance thing. I've known CD ambulances told not to transport a patient to hospital, to wait for a HSE one.

And DesertCreat, The fact you mention a Casualty Service structure in the "bad" county pretty much leaves us in no doubt as to who you're on about. That's definitely a county problem and not an organisational one.

I never liked the "service" structure as opposed to the "location" one, but that's another matter.

But yeah, definitely agree with the majority that the organisation badge doesn't really matter, just the PHECC Card when it comes to giving a hand. Red Cross from Portumna came to Ballinasloe to help with the floods in 2009 IIRC.

Janet1986

There is other incidents beside that incident. Ah maybe it's just a Limerick thing

TylerIE

It varies from county to county.

Theres a CD / RC nearby where, over the last 3/4 years, they literally work out of each others ambulances at major events, pass duties onto each other, lend vehicles and drivers, even attend CD briefings etc.

An A&E Nurse even commented one day when she seen a RC EMT (known to her) in RC uniform with RC crew in a CD Ambulance with driver in CD uniform, as RC were short vehicles for an event. On another occasion a RC paramedic asked CD for assistance with patient assessment (even though other RC members were in the area) and CD Then transported with the RC paramedic attending.

OMAC in that area has traditionally been more distant, but have recently got ALS support from CD for an event, so it may be improving.

In the past I had noticed similar rivalry but a lot of it is down to the management of the organisations. The CDO in the above area was and is totally open and delighted to work with RC and assist them if they need assistance. The RC Area Director Of Units (who only came in about 3 years ago) is equally co-operative and enjoys the partnership exercises. It also presents a MUCH more professional approach to the public ("it doesnt matter what uniform they are wearing they still help").

There is of course some playful banter, but the public gets great service from all.

miju

TylerIE wrote: »

There is of course some playful banter, but the public gets great service from all.

Ah sure banters the best part

CB19Kevo

It used be a big problem in the past but i think times have moved on.
Most organisations work together far better now and hopefully this will continue.

maglite

I think PHECC is largely to thank. You Used to have "First Responders" all over the place with totally different levels of knowledge and Skills available. With the introduction of the EFR and EMT you know who you are working beside. They have also gone and VASTLY improved the quality of the fleets and equipment within them.

Gone are the days of working with a "First Responder" with little training, no Exp and Canvas poles in a Ambulance. (Well Mostly Gone)
http://www.foleyspecialistvehicles.co.uk/d.jpg
to
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/312197_238238156214118_100000838073225_605053_6924536_n.jpg

miju

maglite wrote: »

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/312197_238238156214118_100000838073225_605053_6924536_n.jpg

LOL thats my units 4x4

maglite

Pic thread, Looks nice, can I ask why LP12? I've never been able to work in one of those never mind try and manage a 12 lead. Just a carrier rrv idea?

miju

maglite wrote: »

Pic thread, Looks nice, can I ask why LP12? I've never been able to work in one of those never mind try and manage a 12 lead. Just a carrier rrv idea?

It is miles better than our old 4x4 in terms of a working vehicle. Have a picture I took of it somewhere which shows the back of it in terms of room as attendant will see if I can dig it out.

LP12 is just a small part of the equipment we have available to us if we need it on scene is all. We obviously had adult & pediatric pads for it but we've a normal AED in the vehicle also (whole storage / meds safe area sits behind where the LSU is).

It's difficult to get an ECG in any moving vehicle with the leads bouncing about the place so it's placement is the vehicle is not really designed for that purpose its placed in a more "grab an go" place.

Everything else in it is designed to be within immediate reach in the attendants seat.

miju

last post off top, found that pic though it aint the best

The Real B-man

Rivalry will always be there with some individuals maybe due to the Fact that the Various organisations have their own way of doing things Structure etc. and Some may have Newer Equipment / Vehicles and Receive Government funding others don’t, But at the End of the Day we are all trained to the same PHECC Standard and if Patient Care was Compromised due to some individuals "Rivalry" Then i think there would be a Problem.

I don’t think this is the Case with most Volunteers i think it’s great when we do Work together for the Same Goal great example of this was the JVCC control which i was involved last year and all the Organisations where very Professional and worked together perfectly.

searescue

As others have said, it varies from county to county. In my area and from having connections in 2 other counties who are "in the know", I have seen and heard on cases with a lot of working together - i.e. CD & IRC, IRC & OMAC, OMAC & CD (no SJA in my area).

There only seems to be rivalry (in the three events that I know they work at) when the CD are involved. I don't want to tar all with the same brush. A lot of them brag about their callouts (The tea & sandwich unit springs to mind) and equipment - other teams feel jealous, others feel like saying "Will ya ever shut up!".

They spend ages on their event plans and when a case arises that has been planned out - they feck off and do something else (again, in what I have seen in three different events over 5 years).

I would, honestly, like to work with them and be happy to do so but, as they are now, I would much prefer OMAC or SJA any day.

groundhurling

searescue wrote: »

(The tea & sandwich unit springs to mind)

Sorry you lost me here haha, care to explain what exactly a tea & sandwich unit is?!

flazio

groundhurling wrote: »

Sorry you lost me here haha, care to explain what exactly a tea & sandwich unit is?!

I would imagine they mean the welfare division of Civil Defence.

AG2R

miju wrote: »

Wouldn't imagine there would be any issue really. In Croke Park theres been a few times when the Johnnies have asked OMAC to go up into the stands to assist them with a patient due to clinical levels etc.

Aye thats true, I was part of the St.John crew at EP this weekend and have to credit the way the two organisations worked together. There was the bit of banter alright but thats always going happen:D

miju

AG2R wrote: »

Aye thats true, I was part of the St.John crew at EP this weekend and have to credit the way the two organisations worked together. There was the bit of banter alright but thats always going happen:D

Indeed had great laugh working in control with your lads and everyone worked very well together

Darlughda

It comes down to a battle of funding.

miju

Darlughda wrote: »

It comes down to a battle of funding.

Would be curious as to your reasoning for thinking this?

searescue

flazio wrote: »

I would imagine they mean the welfare division of Civil Defence.

Correct:D

CB19Kevo

searescue wrote: »

As others have said, it varies from county to county. In my area and from having connections in 2 other counties who are "in the know", I have seen and heard on cases with a lot of working together - i.e. CD & IRC, IRC & OMAC, OMAC & CD (no SJA in my area).

There only seems to be rivalry (in the three events that I know they work at) when the CD are involved. I don't want to tar all with the same brush. A lot of them brag about their callouts (The tea & sandwich unit springs to mind) and equipment - other teams feel jealous, others feel like saying "Will ya ever shut up!".

They spend ages on their event plans and when a case arises that has been planned out - they feck off and do something else (again, in what I have seen in three different events over 5 years).

I would, honestly, like to work with them and be happy to do so but, as they are now, I would much prefer OMAC or SJA any day.

The '' tea & sandwich '' unit as you put it may be seen as a less important element of CD but at a protracted incident or out in extreme conditions they make a big differance.
These people volunteer there time & often i feel they are not appreciated.

In my own county there is great inter co-operation between omac,cd and rc both at ground level and amongst senior officers.

Fuinseog

Janet1986 wrote: »

Has anyone noticed the amount of rivalry between voluntary organisations?

Especially the redcross and the civil defense.

They are all voluntary organisations and should work together in my opinion.

There is rivalry among different units of the Civil Defence, especially in Dublin. the organisations should work together. maybe events where they have to work together should be encouraged.