Incident on the bus today

Hermy

Just wondering if anyone from this parish was run off the road by a Dublin Bus driver in the Churchtown/ Dundrum area today lunchtime? I'll be making a formal complaint and your input is welcome. Driver took great umbrage at the cyclist not using the cycle path, did everything he could to overtake him including swerving hard left both times he passed the cyclist, and when I had seen enough and went downstairs to complain to the driver he told me to get of the fnckin bus!:mad:

kenmc

Thankfully not, but do keep us informed...

maloner

Hermy wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone from this parish was run off the road by a Dublin Bus driver in the Churchtown/ Dundrum area today lunchtime? I'll be making a formal complaint and your input is welcome. Driver took great umbrage at the cyclist not using the cycle path, did everything he could to overtake him including swerving hard left both times he passed the cyclist, and when I had seen enough and went downstairs to complain to the driver he told me to get of the fnckin bus!:mad:

Didn't see that one but was on the receiving end of something similar from a car driver. He didn't like me and my mate riding side by side (on the road connecting Sundrive Road to Harolds Cross), telling us to get off the ffing road and giving us the finger. I returned the complement (giving him the finger and telling him to f off). He promptly pulled into the curb and cut me off, causing me to hit his wing mirror and come off. I was fine mostly, but much yelling and shouting ensued and he drove off before I could calm down to get the plate. Reported it but without the reg thats all there'll be to it.

Best of luck with it.

Pat Kavanagh

Cyclists do all sorts of 'training', but we should really try to train ourselves not to react to road rage like that - it's just too dangerous. I've done stupid things too, but I think calmly ignoring is the best if we can manage it.

maloner

Pat Kavanagh wrote: »

Cyclists do all sorts of 'training', but we should really try to train ourselves not to react to road rage like that - it's just too dangerous. I've done stupid things too, but I think calmly ignoring is the best if we can manage it.

Deffo.

For sure I share some of the blame, but regardless, to swerve and run someone down is a step to far in my book.

Hermy

It's something that I've been a victim of myself when cycling in the past so when I witnessed it from upstairs on the bus I wasn't gonna just ignore the drivers recklessness. Although god knows what reception I might get from the bus co.

kenmc

Hermy wrote: »

It's something that I've been a victim of myself when cycling in the past so when I witnessed it from upstairs on the bus I wasn't gonna just ignore the drivers recklessness. Although god knows what reception I might get from the bus co.

It might get a better reception from an 'unaffected' third party such as yourself (i.e. not the cyclist and not the driver). And aren't you also a professional driver, so that in itself may weigh in your favour also.

Hermy

Thanks Ken - appreciate that.

EDIT: Although for what it's worth I sold my taxi several months ago.:(

coolbeans

Hermy wrote: »

Thanks Ken - appreciate that.

EDIT: Although for what it's worth I sold my taxi several months ago.:(

I hope you didn't get off the bus when the driver told you to do so.

Hermy

No I most certainly did not. He wanted to get the guards but then he thought better of it.:rolleyes:

lintdrummer

maloner wrote: »

Didn't see that one but was on the receiving end of something similar from a car driver. He didn't like me and my mate riding side by side (on the road connecting Sundrive Road to Harolds Cross), telling us to get off the ffing road and giving us the finger.

That's awful behaviour from the driver in question, pure recklessness. However, cycling 2 abreast is also a dangerous thing to be doing. I was driving up the lower Kimmage Rd from Harolds Cross recently and I had to pass 2 people cycling abreast. Not only are they more likely to have to swerve to avoid something or each other but they're chatting away and not paying full attention to the road.

It's bad practice, especially on a road like Maryville Rd (the one you were on) which has no cycle lane, is busy and has cars parked either side.

hanleyc2

Some bus drivers are a law onto themselves... nearly as bad as some truck drivers

Hermy

I think all road users are capable of being equally bad.

RustyNut

Hermy wrote: »

It's something that I've been a victim of myself when cycling in the past so when I witnessed it from upstairs on the bus I wasn't gonna just ignore the drivers recklessness. Although god knows what reception I might get from the bus co.

I think it's worth reporting to the bus company, Dublin bus have all sorts of cameras on their buses to reduce clame costs and there might be hard evidence of dickish driving.
Nothing to lose anyway.

Doctor Bob

One...

maloner wrote: »

Didn't see that one but was on the receiving end of something similar from a car driver. He didn't like me and my mate riding side by side (on the road connecting Sundrive Road to Harolds Cross), telling us to get off the ffing road and giving us the finger. I returned the complement (giving him the finger and telling him to f off). He promptly pulled into the curb and cut me off, causing me to hit his wing mirror and come off. I was fine mostly, but much yelling and shouting ensued and he drove off before I could calm down to get the plate. Reported it but without the reg thats all there'll be to it.

Best of luck with it.

...plus one...

emmettogara wrote: »

That's awful behaviour from the driver in question, pure recklessness. However, cycling 2 abreast is also a dangerous thing to be doing. I was driving up the lower Kimmage Rd from Harolds Cross recently and I had to pass 2 people cycling abreast. Not only are they more likely to have to swerve to avoid something or each other but they're chatting away and not paying full attention to the road.

It's bad practice, especially on a road like Maryville Rd (the one you were on) which has no cycle lane, is busy and has cars parked either side.

...equals...two?



(PS It's not bad practice - sometimes it's even best practice - and isn't Maryville Road in Raheny?)

s_carnage

Hermy wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone from this parish was run off the road by a Dublin Bus driver in the Churchtown/ Dundrum area today lunchtime? I'll be making a formal complaint and your input is welcome. Driver took great umbrage at the cyclist not using the cycle path, did everything he could to overtake him including swerving hard left both times he passed the cyclist, and when I had seen enough and went downstairs to complain to the driver he told me to get of the fnckin bus!:mad:

Might be missing something here but why wouldn't the cyclist be using the cycling lane?? Not condoning the bus drivers actions but if there is a cycling lane there would it not make sense to use it?

droidus

s_carnage wrote: »

Might be missing something here but why wouldn't the cyclist be using the cycling lane?? Not condoning the bus drivers actions but if there is a cycling lane there would it not make sense to use it?

No.

Beasty

emmettogara wrote: »

That's awful behaviour from the driver in question, pure recklessness. However, cycling 2 abreast is also a dangerous thing to be doing. I was driving up the lower Kimmage Rd from Harolds Cross recently and I had to pass 2 people cycling abreast. Not only are they more likely to have to swerve to avoid something or each other but they're chatting away and not paying full attention to the road.

It's bad practice, especially on a road like Maryville Rd (the one you were on) which has no cycle lane, is busy and has cars parked either side.

The solution is very simple - wait until it is safe to pass.

As most regular contributors to this forum can tell you, riding 2 (and in certain circumstances 3) abreast is entrely legal in Ireland. It can make it safer for the riders as it forces drivers to think about their passing manoeuver, rather than simply skimming past without a noticeable change in direction

s_carnage

droidus wrote: »

No.

No I'm not missing something or No it wouldn't make sense??

Great use of the English language there by the way. Lovely wording :rolleyes:

Lemag

s_carnage wrote: »

Might be missing something here but why wouldn't the cyclist be using the cycling lane?? Not condoning the bus drivers actions but if there is a cycling lane there would it not make sense to use it?

Cycle lanes tend to be designed and maintain (or usually not) without much thought for cyclists. It is quite often safer, more convenient and more comfortable to use the road. There's a thread on it here somewhere.

droidus

s_carnage wrote: »

No I'm not missing something or No it wouldn't make sense??

Great use of the English language there by the way. Lovely wording :rolleyes:

Why thank you.

In many situations it does not make sense to cycle in the cycle lane. There is a lane on the N2 on my commute that forces me to mount the footpath, which puts me in the path of traffic turning left (myself and another cyclist were cut off yesterday whilst using this lane), forces me to rejoin the road in dangerous positions, goes straight through bus-stops and has an appalling surface for cycling. There is a bus/cycle lane on the same route which is much safer, but you get abused and attacked by bus drivers if you use it.

If you search the forum you'll find descriptions of a litany of similar 'facilities'.

Korvanica

s_carnage wrote: »

No I'm not missing something or No it wouldn't make sense??

Great use of the English language there by the way. Lovely wording :rolleyes:

Cycle lanes are usually in bits so a lot of cyclists use the road instead.

cdaly_

Documenting Ireland's Cycle Lanes

HivemindXX

s_carnage wrote: »

Might be missing something here but why wouldn't the cyclist be using the cycling lane?? Not condoning the bus drivers actions but if there is a cycling lane there would it not make sense to use it?

I can't say why that particular cyclist wasn't using it.

I had a similar incident a few years ago with a Dublin Bus driver and the reason I wasn't in the cycle lane was that I needed to turn right at the next junction and the cycle lane didn't allow that.

Incidentally my complaint about this went nowhere since the bus driver simply lied his way out of it. My word against his and absolutely no enthusiasm from Dublin Bus to do anything but drop the matter. That driver thought he could do anything he wanted and there would be no negative repurcussions on him and was proven right, one independent witness would have changed that.

Iwannahurl

maloner wrote: »

Didn't see that one but was on the receiving end of something similar from a car driver. He didn't like me and my mate riding side by side (on the road connecting Sundrive Road to Harolds Cross), telling us to get off the ffing road and giving us the finger. I returned the complement (giving him the finger and telling him to f off). He promptly pulled into the curb and cut me off, causing me to hit his wing mirror and come off. I was fine mostly, but much yelling and shouting ensued and he drove off before I could calm down to get the plate. Reported it but without the reg thats all there'll be to it.

Best of luck with it.

Lower Kimmage Road?

If so, I had a look on StreetView and the LKR seems to have the bog standard Irish "cycle lane". Room for just one bike, I would say, and there is parking allowed in some parts.

I would thinks that it's reasonable to cycle two abreast on this road, and also that there is reasonable opportunity for motorised vehicles to overake.

bcmf

maloner wrote: »

He promptly pulled into the curb and cut me off, causing me to hit his wing mirror and come off. I was fine mostly, but much yelling and shouting ensued and he drove off before I could calm down to get the plate. Reported it but without the reg thats all there'll be to it.

I would imagine this is on the verge of assault.
I know after a run in I had a while back I set one of the 'speed' buttons on my fone to 'camera' in case I need to grab it quickly.

Iwannahurl

HivemindXX wrote: »

I can't say why that particular cyclist wasn't using it.

I had a similar incident a few years ago with a Dublin Bus driver and the reason I wasn't in the cycle lane was that I needed to turn right at the next junction and the cycle lane didn't allow that.

Incidentally my complaint about this went nowhere since the bus driver simply lied his way out of it. My word against his and absolutely no enthusiasm from Dublin Bus to do anything but drop the matter. That driver thought he could do anything he wanted and there would be no negative repurcussions on him and was proven right, one independent witness would have changed that.

And fair play to the OP for defending the cyclist.

Maybe we should all carry helmet cams or their equivalent to document these abuses. I always carry a digital SLR myself, and I find that there's no arguing against photo evidence.

Tenzor07

Don't all Dublin Bus's have on-board camera's fitted these days?

droidus

Yeah, both times this happened to me, I pursued the bus and took a photo of the reg and the driver at the next set of lights with my phone.

maloner

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Lower Kimmage Road?

If so, I had a look on StreetView and the LKR seems to have the bog standard Irish "cycle lane". Room for just one bike, I would say, and there is parking allowed in some parts.

I would thinks that it's reasonable to cycle two abreast on this road, and also that there is reasonable opportunity for motorised vehicles to overake.

Corner of Larkfield Road and Larkfield grove is where it happened. As that street view image (may or may not show) the car in question pulled sharply into the curb just before the junction (heading towards Sundrive road, leaving me with no where to go but over the handle bars.

I was roared at by a driver driving in a threatening manor, so I roared back, with insulting hand gestures. The hand gestures and choice of language were not acceptable behaviour, but in my defence, when threatened by a motorist my reaction is to be vocal and ensure they are aware of my presence. In the same way as a car has a horn, I have lungs.

If your in an accident in a car and its not your fault (someone pulls out in front of you say), you will be asked in court "Did you sound your horn?". If not, you will be held partly responsible (you didn't do everything possible to avoid the accident). In the same light I think its incumbent upon cyclists to (politely where possible) sound their horn(yell) by shouting at cars to tell them they are there, where appropriate. (IANAL)

But politely where possible. Some people are just angry unhinged people that will drive a car deliberately at a cyclist/pedestrian, so if possible I'll be more polite next time.

But I'll still make my presence heard when appropriate.

rp

s_carnage wrote: »

Might be missing something here but why wouldn't the cyclist be using the cycling lane??

I think what you are missing is the fact that riding in a bike lane increases your risk of dying by c. 30% (stats from UK, German and Netherlands studies).

Hermy

Can someone just clarify for me - I am right to understand that a cyclist is not obliged to use a cycle lane?

droidus

Hermy wrote: »

Can someone just clarify for me - I am right to understand that a cyclist is not obliged to use a cycle lane?

Some are mandatory. It depends on the signage and road markings. No one has ever been prosecuted for not cycling in one and there have been moves to remove the legal compulsion to use mandatory lanes.

Hermy

Ah - I actually thought the legal compulsion had already been removed. Thanks for that.

Macy0161

Beasty wrote: »

As most regular contributors to this forum can tell you, riding 2 (and in certain circumstances 3) abreast is entrely legal in Ireland. It can make it safer for the riders as it forces drivers to think about their passing manoeuver, rather than simply skimming past without a noticeable change in direction

Whilst I've no doubt it's legal, and it's absolutely no excuse for the driving in the op, 2 or 3 a breast could be a bit ignorant of other road users depending on the road/ conditions/ traffic imo.

Stark

s_carnage wrote: »

Might be missing something here but why wouldn't the cyclist be using the cycling lane?? Not condoning the bus drivers actions but if there is a cycling lane there would it not make sense to use it?

If it's the cycle lanes I'm thinking of round Churchtown/Dundrum, they're usable in parts but in many places you have to cycle on the road because the trees next to the path have grown into the path and you'll have your head taken off by a tree branch if you try cycling in the cycle lane.

http://g.co/maps/zr6b

(On a good day you'll also get a few wheelie bins/parked cars).

maloner

Macy0161 wrote: »

Whilst I've no doubt it's legal, and it's absolutely no excuse for the driving in the op, 2 or 3 a breast could be a bit ignorant of other road users depending on the road/ conditions/ traffic imo.

If I'm cycling in heavy traffic, or there's a junction or some other situation approaching, I'll often cycling in the middle of the lane for a short while (or however long is necessary) as I think it's safer for me to cause the cars/lorries/buses behind to be forced to slow down, rather than give them an opportunity to pass where that might not be safe for me.

The other vehicle drivers might not see any risk, but then, they're not on the bike.

Macy0161

maloner wrote: »

If I'm cycling in heavy traffic, or there's a junction or some other situation approaching, I'll often cycling in the middle of the lane for a short while (or however long is necessary) as I think it's safer for me to cause the cars/lorries/buses behind to be forced to slow down, rather than give them an opportunity to pass where that might not be safe for me.

That's fair enough and there's nothing wrong with that - it isn't the same as 2 or 3 abreast.

At times (not all the time) cycling 2 or 3 abreast is the equivalent of the (completely legal) blocking moves some drivers do at traffic lights where they position themselves so there's no room to pass on their left. All road users should have consideration for others, and just because something is legal doesn't mean it's displaying that consideration, and we all get peed off when others don't show us consideration.

monument

Stark wrote: »

If it's the cycle lanes I'm thinking of round Churchtown/Dundrum, they're usable in parts but in many places you have to cycle on the road because the trees next to the path have grown into the path and you'll have your head taken off by a tree branch if you try cycling in the cycle lane.

http://g.co/maps/zr6b

(On a good day you'll also get a few wheelie bins/parked cars).

If it's around there, here's my pics of it. It's a state of a route:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/sets/72157624773982980/with/4912827233/

Beasty

Macy0161 wrote: »

That's fair enough and there's nothing wrong with that - it isn't the same as 2 or 3 abreast.

At times (not all the time) cycling 2 or 3 abreast is the equivalent of the (completely legal) blocking moves some drivers do at traffic lights where they position themselves so there's no room to pass on their left. All road users should have consideration for others, and just because something is legal doesn't mean it's displaying that consideration, and we all get peed off when others don't show us consideration.

It's entirely dependent on the road and traffic conditions. A lot of riders (me included) will move to single file to allow driver past when feasible. However a single file line is twice as long as as one where riders are riding 2 abreast, and hence takes longer to get past

As I alluded to, sometimes drivers will simply skim past riders, particularly when there is traffic coming in the other direction, and riding 2 abreast can force them to think about waiting until it is possible to pass safely

doozerie

@Hermy, Fair play for taking issue with the bus driver. Even if Dublin Bus do nothing about it, the driver himself has been reminded that you can't always just do what you want and expect nobody to do or say anything about it - the fact that he might be held accountable in this case, whatever the eventual outcome, might well make him think twice the next time he considers doing something so downright dangerous. So even if he incurs no penalty/warning for this incident you may well have helped prevent a future repeat of this by the same driver, which in itself would be a positive outcome.

Idleater

doozerie wrote: »

@Hermy, Fair play for taking issue with the bus driver. Even if Dublin Bus do nothing about it...

I made a third party complaint directly to Dublin bus about an exactly similar incident (Blanchardstown). I got an official letter to say that the matter would be dealt with internally and DB wouldn't issue further correspondence on the matter.
Stephen hawking may have to investigate the localised black hole if you do complain.

Stark

Surely you've a right to go to the Gardaí as well if Dublin Bus decide to ignore the matter?

cdaly_

For future reference, if you witness something like this while on the bus, call the cops and ask them to come out and meet the bus. The on-board CCTV gets erased within a couple of days so they need to act fast. If they're called out to an incident, they'll likely demand the footage promptly...

moomooman

I once made a complaint to Dublin Bus after a driver, who was listening to his walkman tried to backhand me in the face after I asked him to open the door and let me off at the stop we were at. He refused as I hadnt rang the bell... when I asked him why that mattered he swung for me. I shouldnt have dodged and just sued them :rolleyes:

I'm sure the complaint went into the bin as soon as I made it, which is why I would say calling the Gardai is a good move as otherwise Dublin Bus will do nothing.

Hermy

Well I called into Dublin Bus in O'Connell Street and they took a written complaint from me so we'll see if anything comes of it. Hopefully it might temper that particular drivers attitude to other cyclists and indeed to customers of Dublin Bus!

cdaly_

Would you make the complaint to the Gardai also please?

coolbeans

cdaly_ wrote: »

Would you make the complaint to the Gardai also please?

If you're going to do that you should tell DB. They might give him the kick in the arse he needs once you make it clear that you're not for turning.

Dandelion6

I made a complaint to Dublin Bus a few months ago about a driver's aggressive behaviour which forced me onto the footpath at an intersection. Got an acknowledgment and then heard nothing. Sent in a reminder a month later. The next day received two separate emails, one saying that the driver had been reprimanded and the other saying they were unable to locate the driver based on the information I had given them (the licence plate, number of bus and date/time of incident!).

My conclusion: complaining is probably a waste of time. Not that that means you shouldn't do it anyway.

Beasty

If you don't complain, then you can be assured nothing will be done.

Complaining is definitely not a waste of time. It should go on a driver's record, so even if nothing happens this time, if a pattern emerges with a particular driver an employer could be considered negligent if they do not take appropriate action

Say, for example, someone does get knocked down by a bus, and the driver is taken to court. I am sure the Guards would look for any evidence of complaints against the driver in question. If the employer has not recorded them, but a member of the public (perhaps on seeing publicity surrounding the case) supplied evidence they had complained about that or other drivers employed by the company, the employer would be in very serious trouble if they were shown to have ignored the complaints

monument

Dandelion6 wrote: »

I made a complaint to Dublin Bus a few months ago about a driver's aggressive behaviour which forced me onto the footpath at an intersection. Got an acknowledgment and then heard nothing. Sent in a reminder a month later. The next day received two separate emails, one saying that the driver had been reprimanded and the other saying they were unable to locate the driver based on the information I had given them (the licence plate, number of bus and date/time of incident!).

My conclusion: complaining is probably a waste of time. Not that that means you shouldn't do it anyway.

Getting two different replies conterdicting each other also happened to my other half when she complained a bus drive did not stop for her. One said the driver would be talked to and she would get tickets, then another came citing the wrong dates and denying all.

Does this happen often?