DUBLIN MINT OFFICE

RubyXI

http://www.dublinmintoffice.ie/frontend/mediabank/21899/DMO-returns-label-NEW.pdf

Gonna send back the coins I didn't want and ask them to stop sending me coins. A request they will probably ignore but worth a try.

Dublin Mint: Tim

phi3 wrote: »

http://www.dublinmintoffice.ie/frontend/mediabank/21899/DMO-returns-label-NEW.pdf

Gonna send back the coins I didn't want and ask them to stop sending me coins. A request they will probably ignore but worth a try.

Good Morning phi3.
The initial coin you purchased was part of a collection, however The Dublin Mint Office accept coins back within 14 days of the invoice date. I can see you have already found the returns label, This is a free post label and you will not be required to pay anything at the post office. Can I recommend that you request a (free) certificate of postage incase for whatever reason the item does not make it back to us. this will allow us to pursue the lost claim on your behalf with AnPost. please do not hesitate to private message me if I can be of further assistance.


Kind regards
Tim

RubyXI

Dublin Mint: Tim wrote: »

Good Morning phi3.
The initial coin you purchased was part of a collection, however The Dublin Mint Office accept coins back within 14 days of the invoice date. I can see you have already found the returns label, This is a free post label and you will not be required to pay anything at the post office. Can I recommend that you request a (free) certificate of postage incase for whatever reason the item does not make it back to us. this will allow us to pursue the lost claim on your behalf with AnPost. please do not hesitate to private message me if I can be of further assistance.


Kind regards
Tim

Thanks, will send back the two coins. I saw no indication that it was part of a collection.

the groutch

Dublin Mint: Tim wrote: »

Good Morning phi3.
The initial coin you purchased was part of a collection, however The Dublin Mint Office accept coins back within 14 days of the invoice date. I can see you have already found the returns label, This is a free post label and you will not be required to pay anything at the post office. Can I recommend that you request a (free) certificate of postage incase for whatever reason the item does not make it back to us. this will allow us to pursue the lost claim on your behalf with AnPost. please do not hesitate to private message me if I can be of further assistance.


Kind regards
Tim

Tim, the legal onus is for your "company" to collect the unsolicited goods, not for people to have to return them to you, regardless of whether the return postage is free

Dublin Mint: Tim

Dear the grouch
For clarification, the Dublin Mint Office has not and does not send unsolicited goods. In the instance above the item that was purchased was part of a collection.

Kind regards

Tim

UglyBolloxFace

Dublin Mint: Tim wrote: »

Dear the grouch
For clarification, the Dublin Mint Office has not and does not send unsolicited goods. In the instance above the item that was purchased was part of a collection.

Kind regards

Tim

You didn't indicate to the person that the item was part of a collection.

It is my understanding you do this to deceive people.

You should not be in business.

foggy_lad

It is a scam plain and simple. Companies have been operating like this for years in the UK where they even have made up debt collectors who send you letters to get you to pay, throw the Rubbish in the bin if it is not collected in the time allowed by law.

Sidetracker

Hi, I wonder if Tim, or the UK cronies his company employs to issue their threatening letters, is aware of :

Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997
11.—(1) A person who makes any demand for payment of a debt shall be guilty of an offence if—

(a) the demands by reason of their frequency are calculated to subject the debtor or a member of the family of the debtor to alarm, distress or humiliation, or

(b) the person falsely represents that criminal proceedings lie for non-payment of the debt, or

(c) the person falsely represents that he or she is authorised in some official capacity to enforce payment, or

(d) the person utters a document falsely represented to have an official character.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500.
I am now in the process of working through a complaint with my local Garda Super, on a case against Dublin Mint AND Credit Account Recovery Solutions Ltd, P.O. Box 6520, BasingstokeHants, UK under this act. I believe more people should take this action. I have used it in the past.

RubyXI

Got a final demand letter to pay for the coins I didn't order.
Even though I've already returned them.

Lynchy747

Just seen this thread. Unfortunately just after I made an order. I am appalled at the business practice of this firm. I have sent an order cancellation to the priority email address mentioned above.

On another note their order process is extremely misleading. I completed "Step 2 of 3" then my application was complete.

From a legal stance where do I stand if Dublin Mint do not respond to my email within a reasonable time?,

James Lynch

foggy_lad

phi3 wrote: »

Got a final demand letter to pay for the coins I didn't order.
Even though I've already returned them.

If you didn't order the goods they were unsolicited so just ignore any demands for payment!

mylesnorton

I too have been a victim of the sharp practice of this firm who have no connection with the Mint or the Central Bank. They are simply scam artists selling trash at elevated prices from an office on fleet street in London.

I sent back 2 unsolicited items and I am still receiving final notices and threatening letters.

Needless to say if they send me any more trash I will not feel any obligation to return it and nor should anyone else. They have no right to ask the hapless consumer to waste their time and effort sending their worthless products back and forth across the Irish Sea.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD ANYONE THINKING OF INVESTING IN RARE COINS DO ANY BUSINESS WITH THESE PEOPLE.

RubyXI

Yet another reminder letter. I already sent back the coins. I sent back the last reminder letter saying i'd already paid. Does anyone work in this places accounts department?

RubyXI

I predicted what just happened. These liars just sent me a letter claiming they never received the coins i sent back. I knew they would. Why did I even send them back? What am I supposed to do now? Do I have to pay them for stuff I didn't want or order just to stop them sending me threats? I really don't know what to do with them. How they are allowed continue business is beyond me. If anyone can help me out of this one i'd really appreciate it.

foggy_lad

phi3 wrote: »

I predicted what just happened. These liars just sent me a letter claiming they never received the coins i sent back. I knew they would. Why did I even send them back? What am I supposed to do now? Do I have to pay them for stuff I didn't want or order just to stop them sending me threats? I really don't know what to do with them. How they are allowed continue business is beyond me. If anyone can help me out of this one i'd really appreciate it.

Just ignore them and throw anything you get in the bin!

Corholio

How are these guys even allowed to have representatives on here after all thats gone on the last few months with them??

Derrywumman

Contact citizens advice, or report to the National Consumer Agency. You do not have to do anything. Do not reply to anything they send. If you get threats about them passing it on to their debt collectors, ignore that too.

WoollyRedHat

Just try the same **** they seem to be pulling on other people... tell them that you didn't receive anything either.


I would hope this would have stopped by now surely? Are people still getting threating letters over devious practices?

johnlambe

Yes, people are still getting the threatening letters for items they didn't order. I got mine today.

I ordered the first coin, and subsequently paid for it.

Then they sent me another one.
I phoned them and asked how I should return it. They told me that they would send a postage-paid (or freepost) envelope to return it.

While I was waiting for this envelope, they sent another coin. (When I phoned, I had specifically asked them not to send this).
I am very busy and didn't have time to chase them up for their envelope, so I waited patiently, considering this their responsibility.

Then, they sent me another demand for payment, with a surcharge for not paying on time. At this point, the deadline for returning the items had expired. (A deadline which, I think, was stated only in their first letter: Terms that I did not agree to.)

At this point, I posted the two coins back to them by registered mail, with a letter explaining that I would not be paying for items that I did not order, and would not pay surcharges for a delay that was caused by them.

Today, I got a threatening letter, for €75, giving me 72 hours to pay or incur another €75 debt collector's fee. (I don't know when that 72 hours starts).


I can see how this could be quite lucrative for them, because I was tempted to pay the €75 to save the time that I will otherwise waste on this.
Even if it doesn't go to court (and after reading this thread, it looks like it won't), I will waste at least a few hours dealing with this - time that's worth more than €75 to me.
On principle, I won't do that, because it would encourage the fraud and financially strength the fraudster.

jmorrisey

johnlambe wrote: »

Yes, people are still getting the threatening letters for items they didn't order. I got mine today.

I ordered the first coin, and subsequently paid for it.

Then they sent me another one.
I phoned them and asked how I should return it. They told me that they would send a postage-paid (or freepost) envelope to return it.

While I was waiting for this envelope, they sent another coin. (When I phoned, I had specifically asked them not to send this).
I am very busy and didn't have time to chase them up for their envelope, so I waited patiently, considering this their responsibility.

Then, they sent me another demand for payment, with a surcharge for not paying on time. At this point, the deadline for returning the items had expired. (A deadline which, I think, was stated only in their first letter: Terms that I did not agree to.)

At this point, I posted the two coins back to them by registered mail, with a letter explaining that I would not be paying for items that I did not order, and would not pay surcharges for a delay that was caused by them.

Today, I got a threatening letter, for €75, giving me 72 hours to pay or incur another €75 debt collector's fee. (I don't know when that 72 hours starts).


I can see how this could be quite lucrative for them, because I was tempted to pay the €75 to save the time that I will otherwise waste on this.
Even if it doesn't go to court (and after reading this thread, it looks like it won't), I will waste at least a few hours dealing with this - time that's worth more than €75 to me.
On principle, I won't do that, because it would encourage the fraud and financially strength the fraudster.

The coins sent to you were unsolicited and by law you dont have to return them at all, its dublin mints responsibilty to collect them. Just ignore all further letters and if they send you any more coins just keep them!

johnlambe

If this was legitimate, we should have no need to worry: We could make money in the same way (enough to retire) (well, if we had no ethics, we could):
You just get any item (the "product"), send it to anyone for any price of your choosing.
If you can sell a product without the buyer having to choose to buy it, the normal rules of capitalism don't apply. (This could solve the banking crisis!)

Of course, clearly an economy could not work like that (with everyone sending and receiving unsolicited packages).


But there's nothing stopping us sending The Dublin Mint Office any unwanted items, along with an invoice (more than enough to offset what they're demanding from us). It's even better if the items are things that you would otherwise have to pay to dispose of.

If they ever do go to court, we point out that they owe us more than we owe them, and when they point out the absurdity of this, the same applies to their claim.

Seriously, if many people do this, it will start costing them money, and their staff (if some don't think about what their company is doing) might wake up to what they're involved in.

And if you use the freepost address, it costs you only the price of the envelope.


Note that doing exactly what they do (including threatening letters) is probably illegal, but I intend to send an item with a simple invoice (similar to how they sent each coin).


This is not a joke: It is a reasonable (and IMHO constructive) form of protest.

the groutch

That's the best idea to come from a Green Party member in years.

Derrywumman

There are a couple of other threads on this. Look up first ever Irish coins or something like that, and Debt - you will get advice there. Just ignore them and they will go away. They do not have a legal leg to stand on.

johnlambe

I got another threatening letter from them today, despite having phoned them.
On the phone, they indicated that I wouldn't be expected to pay for the items (which I had returned) provided that I phoned (to get a return envelope/label) in time. (My situation is that I returned items late due to their delay in sending a returns label).

I also emailed them and posted them a letter confirming what was said on this phone call, and including proof of postage (in both the email and letter).

The amount in my previous post was incorrect: It was actually €71.80.

johnlambe

Mr. Banks,

Is it your policy not to send these return labels (or send them late) in at least some cases, in order to demand payment due to late returns?

I am not the only person it happened to.

Why is the return label not included with the item?
Is this done in order to cause this delay?
Or so that people may not realise that they can return it?

Why is there no explicit indication given with the item:
1. That it can be returned, and that there is no obligation to buy it. (Despite the invoice).
(I think we know the answer to that).
2. How to return it.
(Is it in the hope that people won't get proof of postage? Or just to cause a delay in returning it?)
3. Of the deadline for returning it.

Please respond in the forum, not a PM, since this is of interest to other people.

I'm sending a PM now, so that you can't say that you didn't see this post.

johnlambe

I sent 'Dublin Mint: Tim' a PM referring to the above post and reminding him that if he doesn't respond, the reasons will be obvious.

johnlambe

It's easy to see how this can be very lucrative.

They demand an amount of tens of euro, with threats that it will rapidly increase if you don't pay, with the risk of the cost of the court case.

The victims then have to decide whether they are going to spend a lot of time, and more money (more than the initial amount in their own legal fees alone) to defend it (although they could recover this if they do go to court and win).

Of course, the Dublin Mint Office may have no intention of actually going to court - it may be entirely based on intimidation. (And then the victims are out any money they spend on legal advice, but I think there is a free legal advice service available).

Given the large number of people probably involved, even if only only a very small proportion of people give in and pay the demanded amount to avoid further risk and waste of their time, this can be very lucrative.
The costs to them are just postage (except for the items that people genuinely buy and they probably have a high mark up).

If some items aren't returned, they probably don't cost the DMO much anyway.

They have to create uncertainty among the victims about the strength of their case.
One way that this can be done is the delay in sending returns labels, ensuring that the victim cannot return the item by their deadline.
There are other ways, possibly including claiming that they did not receive returned items (if the victim didn't get proof of posting), and in some cases, people who bought the first coin might just be duped into thinking that they were obliged to pay for the subsequent ones, not realising (because the accompanying letter did not say so) that they could return them.

the groutch

The problem is that Irish Law is too lenient.
In the UK it's a criminal offence to request payment for unsolicited goods, and carries a minimum fine of £2,500 on conviction.

johnlambe

I think it's time we contacted LiveLive (Joe Duffy), if noone has done so already. It has been mentioned before.

Who among us is is a good speaker?

The phone numbers are:
01 208 3264
01 208 2980
01 208 2984
1850 715 815

I've never even phoned in to a radio programme before, but I'll do it if noone else does, unless they resolve the situation very quickly.

This is exactly the sort of thing that belongs on LiveLive - a <banned word omitted> that is not dealt with effectively by the law, and which probably affects a large number of people (or at least potentially will), where a warning would be effective.

Does anyone know how much of the country they've covered with these letters?
Are they still starting the scheme (with the predecimal penny) in some regions?
That would come out when more come forward on the radio programme.
And there are probably some worse cases than we've heard about so far.

Boards.ie: Nicola

Hi guys,

We have decided that Dublin Mint Office is no longer suitable for a rep account as they have been unable to answer queries or resolve issues in the manner we would expect of Verified Reps.

Bearing this in mind, Tim will not be able to answer any further posts. The account has been inactive since mid January and will be closed today.

We have a final statement to post on their behalf, we are sorry we haven't been able to do any more to help resolve anyone's issues through this thread but we would encourage members to use every alternative channel possible to ensure their issues are resolved.

Dublin Mint Office wrote:

If you are a customer and have an issue please contact the company directly on their Freephone 1800 937 321 or by email customercare@dublinmintoffice.ie

The Dublin Mint Office has asked us to point out that they do not send any unsolicited coins. There is a 14-day no obligation returns policy, free postage and a Freephone customer service number for customers so not wish to keep any coins. Any coin collection can be cancelled at any time. There is no obligation to collect all or any part of a coin collection.

The only time the Dublin Mint Office sends reminder letters to customer is when prompt payment has not been received for a product. If there has been a problem with a delivery, contact their customer care team. See www.dublinmintoffice.ie for more information

This thread will remain open so members can report on how they get on but we would remind everyone that defamatory comments or false claims about the company will have to be acted on, as is standard policy.