Do you want segregated cycle lanes?

doozerie

Following from the discussion in this thread, I wonder what the view of people on this forum is regarding segregated cycle lanes? The view has been expressed in that thread that the majority of cyclists want them, this is an attempt to gauge that desire amongst people here.

The phrase "segregated cycle lanes" is a bit vague though as it provides no clue as to how the lanes are segregated or how they interact with the road generally if at all. I've tried to make the poll options a bit more specific to tackle some of that vagueness.

dited

I think it very much depends on the circumstances. I rarely use segregated cycle lanes when I'm commuting or out for a spin, but am happy they're there when my 9 year old is cycling to school. Of course, we're lucky that there is a relatively high quality cycle lane between home and school.

Dirk Gently

cycled on them in holland before. fantastic, good quality surface, own traffic lights, no other foot or vehicle traffic in the lanes. Do I want Irish segregated lanes? NO, because they consist of a white line painted on a footpath or on the edge of a pothole / shore ridden road.

ednwireland

no - the only one ive used here (in sligo) was full of glass and never obvousley never cleaned

Jawgap

No - they'll never be maintained or cleaned.

doozerie

dited wrote:

I think it very much depends on the circumstances. I rarely use segregated cycle lanes when I'm commuting or out for a spin, but am happy they're there when my 9 year old is cycling to school. Of course, we're lucky that there is a relatively high quality cycle lane between home and school.

I agree, it's not an easy question to get a simple answer to. I've found when towing my daughter in her trailer that a segregated cycle lane can sometimes be much more pleasant and relaxing too, despite my dislike of cycle lanes generally. I've made a feeble attempt to make the options in this poll more meaningful than a simple yes or no answer it's still overly simplistic and certainly won't yield results that you could draw any meaningful conclusions from. It might give a flavour of peoples' attitude towards cycle lanes, but that's about the best it'll do I'd imagine.

HivemindXX

I'm afraid none of the poll options suit me.

Yes, but only if they don't share space with motorised traffic or pedestrians

This would include the cycle lanes that keep me protected from traffic at the expense of "protecting" me from going where I want. For example the lanes that force you to turn left at junctions instead of allowing you to go straight ahead or turn right. So to this one my answer is NO.

Yes, even if they intersect roads/space used by motorised traffic or pedestrians

Same problem as the first one basically. I guess intersections will afford me more chance to get back on the road when I need to go somewhere the cycle path doesn't however I know from experience this actually means the cycle path ends right at the junction so cars can turn left across me, not 20m before the junction so I can get in the correct lane to go straight head or turn right.

No

I don't agree with this one either. For leisure segregated cycle lanes are fine. In cases where there are no junctions and no issues with the cycle lane being completely obstructed they are fine. In situations where the road is extremely dangerous, for example trying to cross the Red Cow roundabout, they would be nice as well. So a blanket NO to all segregated cycle lanes is not something I want either.

Undecided

I'm not undecided at all. I have firm opinions on when a segregated lane might be a good idea and when it is not.

Based on my experience with cycle lanes as they currently exist in this country if I was forced to choose I would choose No. However my actual answer would be "Sometimes, but not usually".

zil

I think if the councils could manage to put together cycle lanes that were basically self contained cyclist only roads (à la holland) it would be great. However it's much more likely that the segregated lanes are going to be more of what we have already, a few lines on a footpath going up and down driveways, through drains and with cars parked in them. I sometimes cycle into town along the n11 and I feel a lot safer (even with the occasional angry bus driver) cycling in the bus lane than I do along the cycle lane and hoping that no one pulls out of a driveway/minor road in front of me.

I think however it might all be a matter of speed. In my mind slower cyclist probably feel safer in cycle lanes for two reasons: they're going slow enough to stop in time if someone pulls out from a side road and they avoid getting constantly passed by buses and taxis trying to squeeze by. I wouldn't be going anywhere near the speed of some of the people here but I feel I'm going too fast to stop in time on a cycle lane and I have noticed that I'm usually going fast enough that drivers are happy enough to stay behind me and don't try dangerous overtaking manoeuvres.

Doctor Bob

HivemindXX wrote: »

I'm afraid none of the poll options suit me.

Likewise.

While I see where you're coming from with the poll, doozerie, it seems hamstrung by exactly the same problems you identified (in other threads) in the survey that prompted this thread. To take just one example: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74129540&postcount=119

(I don't mean to single you out, but you were one of the more vocal proponents of a particular perspective previously, and you did start this thread.;))

FWIW, I would broadly favour high quality segregated routes on distributor roads, but in town centres and residential areas not at all. There is no one-size-fits-all approach to improving conditions for cycling- this applies as much to full segregation as it does to a total absence of segregation.

The only other comment I'd add is that a survey of Boards cyclists is about as representative of the opinions of general cyclists as a survey of cycle campaigners would be.

carthoris

HivemindXX wrote: »

I'm afraid none of the poll options suit me.

The same for me pretty much.

Segregated cycle lanes will be too restrictive unless they run parallel to every road which is just not feasible.

But at the same time I cannot vote 'No' to wanting them as I would use them if I found them useful - e.g the Mayo Greenway sounds like a really good cycle.

To echo the comments in the report that is linked to; I cycle a fair bit and I do it on the roads so I am probably a confident cyclist and this is likely influencing my comments - a segregated cycle lane offers little to me compared to a nervous cyclist who would like the room to get more comfortable.

Raam

If I can't race on it then I don't want it.

markpb

My short commute from Dundrum to Sandyford Ind Estate is entirely on two-way cycle lane, some of it built on the footpath and some specially constructed away from both the road and footpath. The footpath parts are wide enough that I've never had problems with pedestrians (unlike Clontarf promenade). There are no houses fronting onto the road and there are never any cars parked on it so the only time I intersect with cars is at junctions. There are two roundabouts where the cycle lane crosses the road but line of sight is clear at both of them. At no point in time does the lane come to an abrupt end or merge suddenly with traffic.

Personally I think it's great. It's quiet enough that I can make decent speed. I think it's faster than cycling on the road because I do't have to stop at right t-junctions and I don't get stuck in queueing traffic (which can be quite heavy). I'm not sure how it would scale if there were a lot of cyclists. I'm perfectly happy cycling on the road (I did Santry to Sandyford for a long time) but I think this is just as good and is more likely to attract new cyclists.

I'm normally very critical of local authorities when it comes to cycling but kudos to SDCC on this. Obviously something like this is easy to construct on new roads, it would be harder to DCC to attempt something similar in the city centre or inner suburbs.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Dublin,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.277985,-6.244535&spn=0.010598,0.01929&sll=-89.189709,167.34375&sspn=0.000063,0.006866&vpsrc=6&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.277985,-6.244535&panoid=WYLpsoHeiYplwZeNpSdhcg&cbp=12,348.1,,0,3.5

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Dublin,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.271887,-6.240763&spn=0.010599,0.01929&sll=-89.189709,167.34375&sspn=0.000063,0.006866&vpsrc=6&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.271887,-6.240763&panoid=M8KU6-cYId1x0CIRH3JQyw&cbp=12,51.12,,0,-3.6

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Dublin,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.272893,-6.221132&spn=0.00265,0.004823&sll=-89.189709,167.34375&sspn=0.000063,0.006866&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=18

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Dublin,+Ireland&hl=en&ll=53.272484,-6.222647&spn=0.000662,0.001206&sll=-89.189709,167.34375&sspn=0.000063,0.006866&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=20

Bunnyhopper

As long as the mandatory-use SI remains in force, no.

If they make them optional they can build whatever they want.

Mucco

Plenty of surveys have already been carried out, for instance the UK dft:
http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/scienceresearch/social/climatechangetransportchoices/pdf/interimreport.pdf

doozerie

For what it's worth I agree with many of the criticisms of the options I put in the poll. I was aiming for something simple, quick, and at least semi-coherent, but not all of those are compatible with a meaningful poll or with covering anything more than the most basic of options. I had considered adding further options for a more specific set of choices, but I quickly realised that it would be beyond me to come up with something that wasn't an incoherent mess - things that sprung to mind that I'd have trouble incorporating into a short poll were things like whether the segregated lanes would be mandatory use or not, whether they'd extend to rural areas, whether they'd be two-way or one-way, how segregated is "segregated", etc. Once I got into those kinds of details I'd also have had trouble avoiding references to the existing bike lanes and I wanted to avoid that as I think many of the existing lanes are so bad as to convince anyone that the current planners couldn't possibly produce something sensible - with reminders of the current lanes in mind I suspected that the "No" option would draw the most support. Basically I wanted to avoid biasing the poll from the outset as much as possible, but that is at the cost of a meaningful poll.

My primary motivation for the poll in the first place though was just to get a feel for whether the majority of voters would be in any way pro-, or entirely anti-, segregated cycle lanes. So the poll is a (very) crude instrument attempting to measure something very simplistic. As I mentioned in an earlier post, you certainly couldn't draw any conclusions from such a simplistic (and perhaps flawed) poll but on the other hand if the balance of yes versus no was extremely skewed then it might give more reason to either accept or question the view that is sometimes presented as a basic fact - that is the view that the majority of current and potential cyclists are in favour of segregation. Even for that though the poll would have to attract a lot of voters before you could take it as even giving a rough feel for the views of people on this forum.

It's far from being a simple topic though, and I must admit that I'd have trouble choosing one option from the poll myself when looking at cycling generally. If it helps to explain my reasoning, when I posted the poll I was thinking primarily of cycling in the context of commuting, and I suspect that many polls aimed at current/potential cyclists do likewise. I think that puts a very specific slant on it - personally, when commuting I want a quick (but safe) route; when cycling with my daughter in tow speed is typically less of an issue and my preference is for a quiet route (so I can talk to my daughter) with less people or cars to run into or to run into me ('cos the bike is longer and less manoeuverable with a trailer attached so cycling my way out of trouble is more difficult) and the likes of traffic/pedestrian lights can actually be useful for me to get the bike+trailer across roads; when going for "a spin" on the bike I want a long distance route with no traffic lights, good scenery, and preferably little traffic so that my head can focus on unwinding rather having to focus on potential hazards. Segregated cycle facilities are compatible with the second of those, possibly with the third (though I don't know of any such routes right now), but completely incompatible with the first.

So, for the purposes of making the poll options perhaps a little bit more relevant, if filling in the poll think of it in the context of your commute. It still won't present everyone with a relevant option perhaps, but it'll get closer to that aim.

studiorat

I started using two "cycle lanes" nearby recently. The problem is other cyclists can't figure out which side of the thing to cycle on, never mind the pedestrians and their mangey dogs.

Unregistered.

If they were more like the lanes they have on the Grand Canal from Portobello down towards the docks then definitely yes.

monument

Unregistered. wrote: »

If they were more like the lanes they have on the Grand Canal from Portobello down towards the docks then definitely yes.

Some of the route is however, very poor...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvBQZ9OZQg

Unregistered.

monument wrote: »

Some of the route is however, very poor...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvBQZ9OZQg

None of the cycle lane I was referring to is in that video!


Pics:
http://dublinobserver.com/2011/02/in-pictures-canal-cycle-route-under-construction/

Thinkingaboutit

Sometimes they seem a good idea, but chicken and egg style, the excessive speeds on some segregated roads are due to the lack of any slower moving, and vulnerable traffic. Some ads to make people watch out and act right, would be better than all this segregated crap which seems to be something some want to really push.

monument

Unregistered. wrote: »

None of the cycle lane I was referring to is in that video!

Pics:
http://dublinobserver.com/2011/02/in-pictures-canal-cycle-route-under-construction/

Those are also my pics

No, I know you are talking about the better sections, but what the video shows is part of that route. There's no real reason why the council did not continue the higher quality surface.

Unregistered.

monument wrote: »

Those are also my pics

No, I know you are talking about the better sections, but what the video shows is part of that route. There's no real reason why the council did not continue the higher quality surface.

The red cycle path from the O2 up towards Custom House is quite adequate I think. At the minimum, that's what I'd like to see.

PseudoFamous

Personally, I would like non redundant cycle lanes. In Arklow, we have literally about 300m of cycle lanes on what may well be one of the worst places to put cycle lanes in history. Here is the sole stretch of cycle lanes in Arklow. Yes, it goes through two terribly laid out roundabouts, and randomly cuts out when it get to them, then magically reappears on the other side, only to randomly stop again. Seems to have been put there because they couldn't fit any more cycle lanes in Wicklow Town or Greystones, but they needed to reach a quota.

I have never seen a cyclist stupid enough to try to use this cycle lane.