Easiest way to wire up an outdoor socket??

paddy147

I need to install an outdoor double socket,for my girlfriend to build a pond and water feature.

I have 30 meters of SWA 3 core 2.5 here.
I also have 25 meters of normal 2.5 twin and earth.
I also have an MK IP rated outdoor double socket box.

The distance from the mains fuseboard to the new switch plate location by the kitchen door is 22 meters.

The distance from the switch plate location to the outdoor socket location is 6 meters.


Would it be safe and ok to wire the normal 2.5 twin and earth from the mains fuseboard to the single switch plate location in the kitchen and then use a few meters of the SWA from the switch out to the socket location in the garden??



Does the actual steel wired armour of the SWA need to be earth clamped of can it be simpley cut off and the SWA be wired into the outdoor socket and then the switch plate in the normal fashion too?

I need to get this sorted ASAP as I have carpet fitters arriving on Monday morning to do the bedoorms and landing area,so cable will need to be run in and floorboards will need to be back down by then.


Basicly,whats the simplest way to do this??

Thanks.:)

Pic of new switch plate location in kitchen (red arrow).

2011

paddy147 wrote: »

Would it be safe and ok to wire the normal 2.5 twin and earth from the mains fuseboard to the single switch plate location in the kitchen and then use a few meters of the SWA from the switch out to the socket location in the garden??

T + E fro the indoor part is fine.

It would be best to use a double pole 20A switch (I am assuming your MCB/RCBO is 20A).
At a minimum the switch should be rated to switch the current that the MCB is rated at.
A DP switch will also enable you to make a high quality connection.
I would suggest that you use one with a neon indication lamp.

Does the actual steel wired armour of the SWA need to be earth clamped of can it be simpley cut off and the SWA be wired into the outdoor socket and then the switch plate in the normal fashion too?

The armour should be properly earthed (just like a steel conduit would be).

paddy147

Thanks for the fast reply,appreciate it.:)

Its a completely new wired house and new mains fuseboard.
MCBs are 20A.

How would the SWA armour be earthed??Any pics to show me what you mean??



And can this DP neon light switch be got in a chrome finish (to match kitchen plates)???

M cebee

If theres lites you might want an extra core

good luck with it

paddy147

M cebee wrote: »

If theres lites you might want an extra core

I cant actually remember if its 3 core or 4 core SWA that I bought,I,ll check 1st thing in the morning though.

What I need is an outdoor double socket on the wall,for my girlfriend to build her pond/water feature and install the pond pump.

Shes going hopping mad at me for not getting done sooner.:pac::pac:

M cebee

If theres lites and fountain 3* wont do

be careful!

2011

paddy147 wrote: »

How would the SWA armour be earthed??Any pics to show me what you mean??

Is the switch box metal? If so gland the SWA to it (using an SWA gland). This gland will connect the armor to the box (it is best to use the "banjo too). The switch box should be earthed using the CPC in the T + E.

If the box is plastic, there is another option.

And can this DP neon light switch be got in a chrome finish (to match kitchen plates)???

Yes, try Legrand, MK or Hamilton.

paddy147

M cebee wrote: »

If theres lites and fountain 3* wont do

be careful!

Im praying thats its 4 core then that I bought.:D

if you look at the pic I posted theres a neon light switch plate there on the wall.

Thats for the dishwasher and the dryer too.

Would that a double pole switch plate and is it another 1 of them that I need??

Thanks.:)

paddy147

2011 wrote: »

Is the switch box metal? If so gland the SWA to it (using an SWA gland). This gland will connect the armor to the box (it is best to use the "banjo too). The switch box should be earthed using the CPC in the T + E.

If the box is plastic, there is another option.



Yes, try Legrand, MK or Hamilton.

Yep,back box would be a single metal back box,as are all the back boxes on the kitchen wall.

2011

paddy147 wrote: »

Yep,back box would be a single metal back box,as are all the back boxes on the kitchen wall.

Perhaps you can unscrew the box so that you can gland into it and hide the gland in the wall behind plaster board.

Always keep the filler handy

paddy147

2011 wrote: »

Perhaps you can unscrew the box so that you can gland into it and hide the gland in the wall behind plaster board.

Always keep the filler handy

Yep,I allways have a large tub of gap filler handy with me.:D

Ive also just found 2 packets of those SWA glands that you mentioned,I didnt realize that I had them,until just now.:)

I have access to the wall behind the plasterboard so I can get both the normal twin and earth and the SWA into position quite easily.

Bruthal

Its like de ja vu here this week:D. At least the answers are the same.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Its like de ja vu here this week:D. At least the answers are the same.

I know.:D

Someone told me to just wire off the existing double socket thats there in the pic and fit a new spur and then a switch plate and then wire the SWA out to the garden.

But isnt it a bad idea to wire off an existing socket like this??

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

I know.:D

Someone told me to just wire off the existing double socket thats there in the pic and fit a new spur and then a switch plate and then wire the SWA out to the garden.

But isnt it a bad idea to wire off an existing socket like this??

Coming off an existing socket circuit is not too bad. Just any problems on the outdoor part of the circuit and it will trip the house circuit. But i often did it, and fit a double pole switch to isolate it in the event of a nuisance tripping fault occuring outside.

No spur switch would be needed if you are supplying just sockets, just a double pole switch.

For the swa, you can gland into the metal switch box, or fit another metal box below the switch after cutting out a bit of the slab, just to gland the swa gland into, and let the inner cable continue up to the switch the. Dont forget to earth any box the gland is fitted to. It should be glanded and earthed both ends.

paddy147

The socket in the pic below is also on the same circuit as the neon switch plate beside it.

That switch plate is for the washing machine,dishwasher and the condensor dryer.

Could I still come off that double socket with some 2.5 T&E to a double pole switch plate and then wire the 4 core SWA from that out to the junction box in the garden???

There will be a pond water pump and also some nice lLED garden lights wired into the junction box.

Or would this method of wiring off the kitchen socket cause problems and things to trip out?


Oh,and which is better.......an outdoor double socket or an outdoor junction box??

Thanks.:)

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

The socket in the pic below is also on the same circuit as the neon switch plate beside it.

That switch plate is for the washing machine,dishwasher and the condensor dryer.

Could I still come off that double socket with some 2.5 T&E to a double pole switch plate and then wire the 4 core SWA from that out to the junction box in the garden???

There will be a pond water pump and also some nice lLED garden lights wired into the junction box.

Or would this method of wiring off the kitchen socket cause problems and things to trip out?

You could come off that socket, and the new isolator could possibly be incorporated into the socket circuit, or just spurred off it.

You can then bring one live core and neutral and earth from the isolator out to garden, and the second core broken through a fused spur to enable the lights to be switched off, although the pump would need to be on for the lights to be on if done like that. The isolator could feed 2 spur switches to have individual control.

Oh,and which is better.......an outdoor double socket or an outdoor junction box??

Thanks.:)

A junction box would be more versatile, for 2 seperately switched sockets, a JB with din rail in it, and 2 seperate sockets can then be connected to it. Or cables connected direct into it.

cast_iron

paddy147 wrote: »

That switch plate is for the washing machine,dishwasher and the condensor dryer.

If this is the case, I'd definitely run a new circuit in.
In my opinion, that setup will lead to trouble as I can't see those 3 items running together without tripping the MCB. The load would be too high for a 20A MCB.

Bruthal

cast_iron wrote: »

If this is the case, I'd definitely run a new circuit in.
In my opinion, that setup will lead to trouble as I can't see those 3 items running together without tripping the MCB. The load would be too high for a 20A MCB.

Yes just to be clear and not confusing it with the circuit for the garden stuff, a new circuit for the kitchen appliances if paddy has the 3 mentioned on a single circuit.

It should also be isolators for each appliance too.

paddy147

Thanks for the advice guys.

Right so,after reading the advice given to me here Ive decided the following........................

As of this evening,it will be a new circuit run from the mains fuseboard for the outdoor junction box.......

I went and bought the following items this evening........

20 amp Hagar RCBO
30 meters of 2.5 T&E,
Flat/flush fit chrome switch plate with 2 switchs (1 switch for pond pump,1 for the lights).
1 metal back box
10 meters of 4 core 2.5 SWA (my SWA was in fact only 3 core )
2 SWA earthing glands
1 outdoor/weatherproof junction box


Does that sound right?

And do I need anything else?


Thanks.:)

cast_iron

Well the switch plate you bought should be 2 gang, double-pole (as stated above).
The 4 core is only necessary if you want to switch the lights and pump separately.

And none of that will solve the problem of your kitchen sockets.

I suggest you get someone in who knows what they are at as while alot of what you want is fairly straightforward, there are some aspects that will require an electrician. (namely fitting the RCBO / sorting out the utility socket setup / glanding SWA properly / DIN rail in outside junction box, etc.)

M cebee

paddy's fairly handy now after the garage job:pac:

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

paddy's fairly handy now after the garage job:pac:

The sparks should dig out the pond now as well, since there is a cable going to its pump:pac:

paddy147

cast_iron wrote: »

Well the switch plate you bought should be 2 gang, double-pole (as stated above).
The 4 core is only necessary if you want to switch the lights and pump separately.

And none of that will solve the problem of your kitchen sockets.

I suggest you get someone in who knows what they are at as while alot of what you want is fairly straightforward, there are some aspects that will require an electrician. (namely fitting the RCBO / sorting out the utility socket setup / glanding SWA properly / DIN rail in outside junction box, etc.)

Eh kitchen sockets???Nothing to do with the kitchen sockets.

Im not going near the kitchen sockets at all mate (I just stated that above in my last post) and hense the RCBO and the main fuseboard.

Oh and yes,I will be switching the pond pump and lights seperatly off of a 2 gang switch,thats what my girlfriend and myself want to be able to do.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

The sparks should dig out the pond now as well, since there is a cable going to its pump:pac:

Who said anything about digging out for a pond?;)

My other half has designed a raised pond and water feature,all above ground with planting around it.Thats her job/career,as in horticulture and garden design.

paddy147

Right,the 2.5 T&E is in place at the mains fuseboard end and also in the kitchen where the double switch plate will be.

The cable run actually worked at 20 meters from board to switch plate location.

Is 1 T&E cable (2.5 T&E) from the fuseboard to the double switch plate enough??


The floor baords are going back down for good tomorrow,so I just want to make sure that I have everything that I need in place,before the floor is screwed back down and the carpet fitters come in.


Thanks.:)

P.S-Pic of the chrome double switch plate that will be fitted

Bruthal

Certainly enough for the outdoor sockets/JB. Maybe another for your kitchen appliances.

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

Thats her job/career,as in horticulture and garden design.

Mine is avoiding digging large trenches.

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Mine is avoiding digging large trenches.

fair enough so.:)

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

Maybe another for your kitchen appliances.

I dont get you??

Im not going anywhere near the existing wiring or RCD for the kitchen sockets or kitchen appliences

Bruthal

paddy147 wrote: »

I dont get you??

Im not going anywhere near the existing wiring or RCD for the kitchen sockets or kitchen appliences

You told us the wall switch does the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer. We suggested you should run another circuit as the 3 of them on the same circuit is a bit too much, and surprising for a new installation, although nothing should surprise really.

Since the route is the same, i suggested now running a second t&e with the one you just ran for the gargen sockets switch, but for the appliances.

The new switch will be beside the existing wm, dw and dryer switch wont it?

paddy147

robbie7730 wrote: »

You told us the wall switch does the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer. We suggested you should run another circuit as the 3 of them on the same circuit is a bit too much, and surprising for a new installation, although nothing should surprise really.

Since the route is the same, i suggested now running a second t&e with the one you just ran for the gargen sockets switch, but for the appliances.

The new switch will be beside the existing wm, dw and dryer switch wont it?

The washing machine,dishwasher,condensor dryer and that double socket on the wall are on a circuit of their own with an RCD at the fuseboard.

The other kitchen sockets are on another circuit that also has a neon switch on the other kitchen wall and with a different RCD at the fuseboard


Im going to install a new metal back box and a double switch plate on the wall beside the french doors