export market for blues

vanderbadger

anyone see the article in the journal, that exporter who was on those teagasc beef videos was saying the market for blues is shrinking..charolais cross more desirable now according to article..anyone seen any evidence of this at weanling sales? another chap said to me recently blue weanlings were not going as well this year as previous years but havent been to a weanling sale yet myself

blue5000

Sorry OP haven't read the article, but heard earlier that money is tight in Italy:D

Anyone know what grain prices are like in Italy compared to last year?

Muckit

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73757622

I mentioned this vander a few weeks ago. I was at a farm walk where that italian exporter guy was talking... The charolais cross is hard beaten.

Blue it has nothing got to do with the price of grain. The italian housewife has discovered that the charolais is better eating quality and also the blue's has problems with dark cutting meat.

vanderbadger

Muckit wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73757622

I mentioned this vander a few weeks ago. I was at a farm walk where that italian exporter guy was talking... The charolais cross is hard beaten.

Blue it has nothing got to do with the price of grain. The italian housewife has discovered that the charolais is better eating quality and also the blue's has problems with dark cutting meat.

the one year i have a few blues...:rolleyes:

Dozer1

I wouldn't be too worried yet Van as the few weanling sales I've been at the blues are still making more than the CHX or LMX, that said I see alot more pooorer quality blues in marts now.
Everyone seems to be breeding them now and the quality has dropped big time in my opinion.

I have CHX and i was happy with how they sold, one thing I noticed was the LMX was back abit at the sales I thought myself.

pakalasa

What about those guys that paid big money, sometimes up to 5,000 euro for a BB bull this year.

JohnBoy

There should probably be a compensation scheme for them.

reilig

Dozer1 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too worried yet Van as the few weanling sales I've been at the blues are still making more than the CHX or LMX, that said I see alot more pooorer quality blues in marts now.
Everyone seems to be breeding them now and the quality has dropped big time in my opinion.

I have CHX and i was happy with how they sold, one thing I noticed was the LMX was back abit at the sales I thought myself.

Would agree with Dozer, I've been at a good few weinling sales in the last few weeks and the blues are still definitely commanding a premium over anything else. There are a lot of UK buyers (or dealers for UK buyers) in marts in the west and North West over the last few weeks and they are buying up anything blue.

Just because one or 2 exporters have no market for them anymore doesn't mean that they are worthless. With current weinling prices, I'd say that a lot of the export buyers are talking down blue prices with the hope that farmers will sell them for less.

Dealers and exporters are "Cute H@@rs". They don't go to farm walks and have articles published in papers for the fun of it - its to benefit their own pocket.

Going to the first weinling sale of the season this evening in Loughrea and Carrigallen tomorrow and will report back.

Grecco

The Charolais has gotten a serious lift this year, Ive seen April born 250kg runner weanlens making over 500 yoyos with there weight! Yet Ive seen October born blues 400-500 kg been sold for 800.
doesn't make sense.

flatout11

there is way too many bad blues out there for the last few years thats always going to be the problem with blues
i think the story of the itialian housewife not liking the meat because of its colour is nonscense......
i didnt think the breed had that big of an effect on the colour
sounds like a great story as for the real reason the story was put out there..... best explained below

reilig wrote: »

Dealers and exporters are "Cute H@@rs". They don't go to farm walks and have articles published in papers for the fun of it - its to benefit their own pocket.

QUOTE]

snowman707

we are not in commercial suckling now but when we were, we found the blues a disaster

give me a good 3/4 or 7/8 bred limo any day.

reilig

snowman707 wrote: »

we are not in commercial suckling now but when we were, we found the blues a disaster

.

In what way Snowman?

Like the Limo ourselves too, easy fed and much healthier on our land than other breeds. However have had a lot of success in the last few years with bb off black LimousinX Cows.

pakalasa

I've said this here before, but I always reckon a 'bad' charolais beats a 'bad' Belgian Blue any day. Farmers buying stores here will take a char any day over a BB. That's why I reckon you should only cross your better cows to a BB bull. You have a far better hope of making the export boat then. The BB weanling that doesn't make export standard isn't worth much.

snowman707

reilig wrote: »

In what way Snowman?

Like the Limo ourselves too, easy fed and much healthier on our land than other breeds. However have had a lot of success in the last few years with bb off black LimousinX Cows.

too lazy at birth,

found they were very prone to respiratory problems especially the males,

They didn't thrive as good as the limousins thus even though we got a better price per kg, the lms left same profit with a lot less hassle

found the bulls very aggressive when they got over the 10 months stage ... entered one which I thought was docile to a show sale which he won overall champion, fecker went wild while been photographed and nearly done in the judge

maybe in a different environment they would be different , but we have always gone for a easy care, low running cost animal, the blues did not provide this ( not for us in any case )

pakalasa

snowman707 wrote: »

..fecker went wild while been photographed and nearly done in the judge..

..Love to see that video.

vanderbadger

was at local show and sale today, some great calfs for sale, lots of blues and char calves and limos, you needed an almighty calf to make 1000 euro

leg wax

vanderbadger wrote: »

was at local show and sale today, some great calfs for sale, lots of blues and char calves and limos, you needed an almighty calf to make 1000 euro

and i was in kilkenny mart yesterday and ***** of ch 420 kg made 900 euros, i think the flood has started what sale was that.

flatout11

pakalasa wrote: »

I've said this here before, but I always reckon a 'bad' charolais beats a 'bad' Belgian Blue any day. Farmers buying stores here will take a char any day over a BB. That's why I reckon you should only cross your better cows to a BB bull. You have a far better hope of making the export boat then. The BB weanling that doesn't make export standard isn't worth much.

id agree with you thats the achilles heel for blues

vanderbadger

leg wax wrote: »

and i was in kilkenny mart yesterday and ***** of ch 420 kg made 900 euros, i think the flood has started what sale was that.

ennistymon show and sale..the blue prize winner was making over 1000 but not much, wasnt sold, definately no huge go on alot of good blues..

manjou

The good blues are still making same money as last year but have not risen like other cattle as farmers are not to pushed on them only exporters.That was problem i found with them get right one serious money but if not bad money. was at several marts and farmers are paying good money for light weanlings and less a kg for heavy ones. They will spend a certain amount on a calf no mater what size up to 750 euro no problem after that it gets harder to get more the price per kg drops

reilig

I was in Loughrea last night. "Good Quality" blues were bringing at least EUR500 with their weight. 350kg blue bull made 850. 450kg bull made 1000. Only 2 "exceptional Chaorlais bulls made 500 with their weight. Most of the rest that were export standard went from 400 to 450 with their weight. Light chaorlais bulls with no feeding made EUR3 per kg. eg 225kg Eur675. BB still commanded higher prices and the 3 export buyers around the ring were plainly seen to be the buyers.

Heifer prices across the board appeared to be down in comparison to other marts that I have been at. But on the other hand heifer quality was poor there last night which suggests that the good price for cull cows has seen a lot of farmers keeping their best heifers for replacing and getting rid of anything that isn't having a good enough calf. Picked out only 2 heifers out of the 60 that I would choose for breeding.

March, April and May calves that haven't been over done with creep will be the big winners this autumn. The worst quality small calves are making Eur2.50 per kg. Poor black and white calves (Off Dairy cows I presume) 200kg are easily making EUR480 to EUR500.

Muckit

reilig wrote: »

I was in Loughrea last night. "Good Quality" blues were bringing at least EUR500 with their weight. 350kg blue bull made 850. 450kg bull made 1000. Only 2 "exceptional Chaorlais bulls made 500 with their weight.

What about the bad quality blues Reilig? What were they making with their weight? I've no experience of blues, but from what I've heard they're harder to finish than a charolais. Worse still if you've bad ones.

Muckit

flatout11 wrote: »

there is way too many bad blues out there for the last few years thats always going to be the problem with blues
i think the story of the itialian housewife not liking the meat because of its colour is nonscense......
i didnt think the breed had that big of an effect on the colour
sounds like a great story as for the real reason the story was put out there..... best explained below

reilig wrote: »

Dealers and exporters are "Cute H@@rs". They don't go to farm walks and have articles published in papers for the fun of it - its to benefit their own pocket.

QUOTE]

You could well be right I was only repeating what I heard with my own ears. It's up to every lad to make up their own mind then after that as to whether it's bulls**t or otherwise:D

reilig

Muckit wrote: »

What about the bad quality blues Reilig? What were they making with their weight? I've no experience of blues, but from what I've heard they're harder to finish than a charolais. Worse still if you've bad ones.

A bad blue is the same as a bad calf of any other breed. There are loads of them about. I imagine its farmers taking a punt of a cheaper animal that buying them. I don't know about anyone else, but I never remember the bad prices.

I was in Carrigallen today. Sold 3 heifers and 1 bull. Heifers were ordinary enough (380kg to 450kg), but still made 350 with their weight. Bull was a shorthorn off a heifer. He had meal for the last 8 weeks - about 2kg per day. He was born on Christmas day, was 375kg and made Eur845. Serious money for an ordinary animal only 9 months old.

Belgian Blues were flying there today. Exporters were snapping them up very fast with lots of competition for them. Several of them 440 to 460kg made over Eur 1000.

Bizzum

reilig wrote: »

Bull was a shorthorn off a heifer. He had meal for the last 8 weeks - about 2kg per day. He was born on Christmas day, was 375kg and made Eur845. Serious money for an ordinary animal only 9 months old.QUOTE]

I'm intrigued, shorthorn is not a breed I would think of for a heifer, even though they are easy calved!
Were you hoping for a heifer for breeding and why shorthorn?

I must put up pics of 2 of our Lim/Shorthorn cows some of these days!

reilig

Bizzum wrote: »

reilig wrote: »

Bull was a shorthorn off a heifer. He had meal for the last 8 weeks - about 2kg per day. He was born on Christmas day, was 375kg and made Eur845. Serious money for an ordinary animal only 9 months old.QUOTE]

I'm intrigued, shorthorn is not a breed I would think of for a heifer, even though they are easy calved!
Were you hoping for a heifer for breeding and why shorthorn?

I must put up pics of 2 of our Lim/Shorthorn cows some of these days!

Neighbour's bull

Bodacious

Bizzum wrote: »

reilig wrote: »

Bull was a shorthorn off a heifer. He had meal for the last 8 weeks - about 2kg per day. He was born on Christmas day, was 375kg and made Eur845. Serious money for an ordinary animal only 9 months old.QUOTE]

I'm intrigued, shorthorn is not a breed I would think of for a heifer, even though they are easy calved!
Were you hoping for a heifer for breeding and why shorthorn?

I bought a char heifer and she had a shorthorn heifer calf. I never really looked at their calving figures or used shorthorn straws either but this is a lovely little blue grey calf... I may even keep her on

Bizzum

reilig wrote: »

Bizzum wrote: »

Neighbour's bull

And there was me thinking it was an informed decision, based on Eurostar indices, ICBF info..........Knee deep in AI company literature etc:D

reilig

Bizzum wrote: »

reilig wrote: »

And there was me thinking it was an informed decision, based on Eurostar indices, ICBF info..........Knee deep in AI company literature etc:D

Price wise he worked out just as good

Grecco

What is it with the blues
I notice that one in five are little miniature cattle. They look like small pigs but they just didn't grow. There isn't much demand for these small ones either!!!

Juniorhurler

I always hear people giving out about the size of blues and kind of blaming the sires. The sire is only half of the breeding. We breed all blues (Bar a few A.I for replacements) from predominantly blonde cows and find size is not a problem.

vanderbadger

last year was my first year breeding blues and while they all appeared lovely when born I have to say most of them went plain as they got older, only 1 out of 6 really kep the musle and nice shape, my cows I guess.

reilig

vanderbadger wrote: »

last year was my first year breeding blues and while they all appeared lovely when born I have to say most of them went plain as they got older, only 1 out of 6 really kep the musle and nice shape, my cows I guess.

Mine are usually the opposite - Plain with no muscle when born. They usually fill out and develop the muscle after 2 or 3 months and develop a nice shape.

flatout11

reilig wrote: »

Mine are usually the opposite - Plain with no muscle when born. They usually fill out and develop the muscle after 2 or 3 months and develop a nice shape.

Found the same, most blues are handy little calves usually dont start filling out until about a month old - there are the odd exceptions

polod

Grecco wrote: »

What is it with the blues
I notice that one in five are little miniature cattle. They look like small pigs but they just didn't grow. There isn't much demand for these small ones either!!!

I find with our blue calves' its the extreamly double muscled ones that dont really grow ......but they fairly line my pockets

leg wax

i hope this will have a negative effect on the pedigree blue sale in oct in roscrea as i will be going with a empty box.:D

vanderbadger

leg wax wrote: »

i hope this will have a negative effect on the pedigree blue sale in oct in roscrea as i will be going with a empty box.:D

what you going buying, bull?

leg wax

vanderbadger wrote: »

what you going buying, bull?

thats the plan.

blue5000

flatout11 wrote: »

there is way too many bad blues out there for the last few years thats always going to be the problem with blues
i think the story of the itialian housewife not liking the meat because of its colour is nonscense......
i didnt think the breed had that big of an effect on the colour
sounds like a great story as for the real reason the story was put out there..... best explained below

+

reilig wrote: »

Dealers and exporters are "Cute H@@rs". They don't go to farm walks and have articles published in papers for the fun of it - its to benefit their own pocket.

QUOTE]

+

leg wax wrote: »

i hope this will have a negative effect on the pedigree blue sale in oct in roscrea as i will be going with a empty box.:D

=
Great minds think alike, you might not be the only one heading to roscrea with an empty trailer;)

Brains?

Juniorhurler wrote: »

I always hear people giving out about the size of blues and kind of blaming the sires. The sire is only half of the breeding. We breed all blues (Bar a few A.I for replacements) from predominantly blonde cows and find size is not a problem.

i cant speak for everywhere but i know around here alot of farmers breed blues from AAxFr cows, simply because they have a good big(ish) frame and the AA in them leaves no hassle at calving, but still they are smaller cows and as a result smaller weanlin's

but if it were me I'd have a good ChxLm over a Blue any day!
good market for both Bull's and Heifer's and easily fattened, both the exporter and the Irish farmer will be happy with them!

leg wax

anyone see the guy in the comic with the 200 sucklers in wexford blue cows blonde bull ,i would like a look around that yard:rolleyes:, if iwas starting again i would go that root ,blue cow ,blonde,part, lim bull,so many choices.

Juniorhurler

leg wax wrote: »

anyone see the guy in the comic with the 200 sucklers in wexford blue cows blonde bull ,i would like a look around that yard:rolleyes:, if iwas starting again i would go that root ,blue cow ,blonde,part, lim bull,so many choices.

I didn't see it in the comic but I assume that you mean Staffords of Drinagh, managed by Larry Coleman? If so I was at a teagasc farm walk there last year. TBH it is not a realistic set up as the owners are staffords fuel, staffords shipping, newline oil etc. and are multi millionaires and this is a hobby to them basically. For example they spent €256,000 on a suckler cow unit within two years of starting up at the suckler game.

On the night that we were there we saw about sixty weanlings/ strong calves and TBH a lot of them were not going to make the ship. I think the benefit will come out of his system if he keeps on the blonde heifers out of the BBxFr cows and turns a BB or a charlaois back on them.

I have been using a similar system, buying LimousinxBritish Friesian heifers and putting the blonde bull to them, keeping the heifers and then putting the blue bull on these heifers. I'm at it six years now and finding the blue calves from the blondexLimousin heifers to be super. The only problem I am having is i A.I,d a couple to Blonde a while back and kept on these 3/4 bred blondes. When they calved they hardly had a cupful of milk. My solution is to keep the blondexlimousin cows to put to the blue and keep on a few Limousinxfriesian cows to A.I to bonde to get replacements. I'm not saying everything I am doing is right and everybody else is wrong but I find that my system really works for me.

Sorry to be so long winded, I got a bit carried away, I just love talking about suckler cows. Must be why my phone bill is so high.:D

Kovu

Juniorhurler wrote: »

I didn't see it in the comic but I assume that you mean Staffords of Drinagh, managed by Larry Coleman? If so I was at a teagasc farm walk there last year. TBH it is not a realistic set up as the owners are staffords fuel, staffords shipping, newline oil etc. and are multi millionaires and this is a hobby to them basically. For example they spent €256,000 on a suckler cow unit within two years of starting up at the suckler game.

On the night that we were there we saw about sixty weanlings/ strong calves and TBH a lot of them were not going to make the ship. I think the benefit will come out of his system if he keeps on the blonde heifers out of the BBxFr cows and turns a BB or a charlaois back on them.

I have been using a similar system, buying LimousinxBritish Friesian heifers and putting the blonde bull to them, keeping the heifers and then putting the blue bull on these heifers. I'm at it six years now and finding the blue calves from the blondexLimousin heifers to be super. The only problem I am having is i A.I,d a couple to Blonde a while back and kept on these 3/4 bred blondes. When they calved they hardly had a cupful of milk. My solution is to keep the blondexlimousin cows to put to the blue and keep on a few Limousinxfriesian cows to A.I to bonde to get replacements. I'm not saying everything I am doing is right and everybody else is wrong but I find that my system really works for me.

Sorry to be so long winded, I got a bit carried away, I just love talking about suckler cows. Must be why my phone bill is so high.:D

Sounds like a nice set up:D Only used my first blonde bull this year on a pb lm, she's always had grand milk and only ever had heifer calves, so here's hoping.... What blonde do you AI with?

Grecco wrote: »

What is it with the blues
I notice that one in five are little miniature cattle. They look like small pigs but they just didn't grow. There isn't much demand for these small ones either!!!

Asked this before, but I reckon I actually have a calf with a form of actual dwarfism:( Knew something wasn't right when she was born. Do ye reckon I should send her for research? She i a wee bit of a mascot on our farm though, gimpyness of her pushing into the creep feeder next to a 480kg weanling, her a bare 130kg!!!:D

As for cattle trade, serious money for heavy heifers in Ballina today! Breeders or further feeders are definitely more in demand than fancy blues though. You always can tell the trade if the dealers have less then the farmers when going home!

blue5000

Hi Junior hurler did you use KOY in those non milky blondes by any chance?

Juniorhurler

Karen112 wrote: »

Sounds like a nice set up:D Only used my first blonde bull this year on a pb lm, she's always had grand milk and only ever had heifer calves, so here's hoping.... What blonde do you AI with?



Asked this before, but I reckon I actually have a calf with a form of actual dwarfism:( Knew something wasn't right when she was born. Do ye reckon I should send her for research? She i a wee bit of a mascot on our farm though, gimpyness of her pushing into the creep feeder next to a 480kg weanling, her a bare 130kg!!!:D

As for cattle trade, serious money for heavy heifers in Ballina today! Breeders or further feeders are definitely more in demand than fancy blues though. You always can tell the trade if the dealers have less then the farmers when going home!

I used RGL or rathgarvan Louis from progressive genetics. He is only 2 star for milk but was the best that was available at the time. Next time i will try Castlecoote Alex (CDK) as he is 5 star. Hard to get it all right.

Muckit

Was reading in the Farming Indo that the BB society aren't too happy about the comments made by that mullingar live exporter lad in the comic last week:rolleyes:

Bizzum

On the subject of Blondes. Does anyone know where I'd get a few Landais straws?

Juniorhurler

vanderbadger wrote: »

anyone see the article in the journal, that exporter who was on those teagasc beef videos was saying the market for blues is shrinking..charolais cross more desirable now according to article..anyone seen any evidence of this at weanling sales? another chap said to me recently blue weanlings were not going as well this year as previous years but havent been to a weanling sale yet myself

Just in the door from Carnew, first evening weanling sale of the year there today. A buyer for the Italians bought anything that was above average quality in blues. Paid top dollar too. 332 kilo blue bull, €1290. 472 kilo blue bull, €1520. The blues were all that interested him bar one outstanding limousin and a couple of lovely Blonde D'acquitaine bulls.
The charlaois on show were average to poor so I can't comment on how interested in these he would have been. Quality stock ranged in price from €2.50ish th €4ish per kilo. I did notice that a couple of buyers for the shippers who would have been there every year at the first sale were not there tonight. Niall Grufferty from Kildare was one absntee and the other was your man from Monaghan, Connolly I think is his name. I doubt they could have pushed the prices up any more than they already were.

leg wax

Juniorhurler wrote: »

Just in the door from Carnew, first evening weanling sale of the year there today. A buyer for the Italians bought anything that was above average quality in blues. Paid top dollar too. 332 kilo blue bull, €1290. 472 kilo blue bull, €1520. The blues were all that interested him bar one outstanding limousin and a couple of lovely Blonde D'acquitaine bulls.
The charlaois on show were average to poor so I can't comment on how interested in these he would have been. Quality stock ranged in price from €2.50ish th €4ish per kilo. I did notice that a couple of buyers for the shippers who would have been there every year at the first sale were not there tonight. Niall Grufferty from Kildare was one absntee and the other was your man from Monaghan, Connolly I think is his name. I doubt they could have pushed the prices up any more than they already were.

what were the incalf heifers like and what did they make,was john duggan there with blues.connolly was in ross last monday.

Juniorhurler

leg wax wrote: »

what were the incalf heifers like and what did they make,was john duggan there with blues.connolly was in ross last monday.

In calf heifers were sold before I arrived but I hear that they brought around and about €1200/hd. One guy who bought three of them though told me that they are due to calve between three to six weeks and that they are mud fat. Calving problems for him so.
Yeah John Duggan was out with cattle. Had some loely stock out and had a few bring the €1200-€1300 mark. Almost exclusively blues. I thought his stock were a bit plainer than last year but the blondes probably pulled the overall impression of his stock back.
Was Connolly buying much last week? I was in Carnew about three weeks back and he got fcuk all cattle as Pat O Neill outbid him for everything he raised his hand for.

limo_100

anyone know the best mart in the midlands for weanlings??