Feedback on the Islam forum.

dlofnep

Over my time of browsing the Islam forum, with the occasional interjection - I've noticed that the moderation team for the Islam forum are truly incapable of criticism of their faith. I've seen infractions issued for the most minor things, in an attempt to curb debate.

This is the only religious forum on boards that imposes such censorship. I've attacked Christianity left, right and centre on their forum - but they've always at least been willing to allow debate on their forum, regardless of how flattering it is to Christianity.

The polar opposite is in effect in the Islam forum, where if you make a statement - you are asked to backup the said statement, and if you do back it up with a quote from the Qur'an - you're told that you've taken it out of context, and threatened with an infraction.

Surely there is no valid objective way of studying religious texts. They are all open to interpretation.

So when a poster comes to the Islam forum, looking for advice on the pros and cons of Islam, or to address some concerns that they might have - Surely - dialogue should be open to all to engage in debate, as naturally Muslims will be protective of their faith and never intentionally highlight the negative aspects of their faith.

I think it's frankly dangerous for only one side of the debate to have a voice, while the other side is threatened and generally bullied away from voicing their opinion on the forum.

Now I'm not asking for people to start running into the Islam forum and posting 'All Muslims are scum', or anything of that nature - But what I am asking for is that the forum is reviewed, and that valid criticism be permitted to allow for a real meaningful dialogue that gives both sides of the story.

One thread in question was discussed the concerns of one poster who was worried that her homosexual brother might be outcast, after her sister married into Islam and that her role would be subservient.

When I highlighted that intolerance of homosexuality and subservience was high in Islam and that my cousin was treated as subservient in her marriage and beaten routinely, I was accused of stating that all Muslims were wife-beaters, despite the fact that prior to the accusation I had expanded on my post to clarify that I did not think that all muslims beat their wife, but rather that it was permitted to hit one's wife in Islam.

I personally feel that IrishConvert is incapable of moderating the Islam forum in a fair and balanced manner, and that the Islam forum as a whole is intolerant to valid and meaningful criticism.

I'm sure some will agree, and some will disagree - But let's at least have a debate and resolve this once and for all.

Thanks.

Eliot Rosewater

With specific respect to the thread dlofnep references I think that either the Islam forum should allow two-sided debate or it should not allow any threads which could/should be two-sided at all.

At the moment there's a troublesome middle ground whereby posters are allowed go in and ask for advise about friends and relatives who may be converting to Islam, but only responses which are favourable to Islam are allowed. Either responses which are not favourable to Islam should be tolerated or such a thread should be moved elsewhere. As it stands, anyone who sets up a thread in the Islam forum is unknowingly going to hear only one side of the story. It effectively turns the thread into an exercise in propaganda.

I think the current setup is especially troubling given some of the issues surrounding Islam. If you read the thread it is clear that Islam permits men to beat their wives. While I have absolutely no doubt that the vast majority of Muslims do not do this, anyone who has a friend or relative converting to Islam still has a right to be concerned. As it stands the Boards.ie Islam forum is failing these people by giving them a false sense of security by banning legitimate opposing views.

AckwelFoley

Personally, i wouldnt post in the forum at all. If its an Allahu Akbar circle jerk that they want as opposed to the more rational debate you suggest thats available in the christian forums.

Either way trying to debate faith and its laws is impossible

Dav

I'd like to just leave a note to say I'm actually in discussions with the mods of the forum and their CMods about how it ticks and all the rest, so its entirely possible that may result in some changes. I'm not hugely familiar with how the forum ticks, so I need to learn that first in order to make a fair assessment of it. So I'd greatly appreciate it if people kept that in mind when they post here. This isn't a thread for talking about what you agree or disagree with in terms of the Islamic Faith, this is here to talk about the Boards.ie Forum and they are two very, very different things.

So with that in mind, please carry on folks.

As an aside, dlofnep, why feel the need to "attack" anything? Why not just debate against it? Choice of language sets tone and tone sets the flow of a thread and when one party on a thread is "under attack" then they "fight back" rather than debate. Just a thought worth keeping in mind...

Hobbes

I've noticed that the moderation team for the Islam forum are truly incapable of criticism of their faith. I've seen infractions issued for the most minor things, in an attempt to curb debate.

I'm not a Muslim and it was me who moderated the thread.

The forum isn't a debate forum (in that the religions existence is not up for debate). The forum is for muslims to discuss Islam. It is also a place where anyone can enter and ask questions about Islam, and get answers that are not of the "omg all Muslims are evil" kind.

If they want those sort of posts, there a numerous other forums on boards that suffice, and you will find many such posts.

The forum is not for people who have an issue with Islam. It is like in big letters in the charter.

If you do have a beef with Islam, you can still post there. But you need to word your responses so they do not antagonize others. The muslims are not on trial in the forum. There have been a number of posters who are anti-Islam that post/respond in the forum and are capable of remaining within the charters rules.

By the same token, if someone comes back with a response about the religion that is anathema to you, that is where you leave it.

As per the usual posts I have done today, feel free to pick parts of my post apart looking for some thing to justify imaginary persecutions. I won't be responding further. As continually repeating the obvious appears not to work (+already flagged for admins to look at).

FlutterinBantam

Hobbes wrote: »

I'm not a Muslim and it was me who moderated the thread.

The forum isn't a debate forum (in that the religions existence is not up for debate). The forum is for muslims to discuss Islam. It is also a place where anyone can enter and ask questions about Islam, and get answers that are not of the "omg all Muslims are evil" kind.

If they want those sort of posts, there a numerous other forums on boards that suffice, and you will find many such posts.

The forum is not for people who have an issue with Islam. It is like in big letters in the charter.

If you do have a beef with Islam, you can still post there. But you need to word your responses so they do not antagonize others. The muslims are not on trial in the forum. There have been a number of posters who are anti-Islam that post/respond in the forum and are capable of remaining within the charters rules.

By the same token, if someone comes back with a response about the religion that is anathema to you, that is where you leave it.

As per the usual posts I have done today, feel free to pick parts of my post apart looking for some thing to justify imaginary persecutions. I won't be responding further. As continually repeating the obvious appears not to work (+already flagged for admins to look at).

Very considered response moderator, a forum like that can only serve to expand our view and dispel some of the myths surrounding the faith, whilst at the same time providing a platform for those seeking information .

Of course you will always get single issue punters,and blinkered individuals who cannot see the big picture outside their own narrow outlook, and unfortunately ruin the discourse and exchange for those who genuinely want to debate.

They are here already:(

jhegarty

Dav wrote: »

As an aside, dlofnep, why feel the need to "attack" anything? Why not just debate against it? Choice of language sets tone and tone sets the flow of a thread and when one party on a thread is "under attack" then they "fight back" rather than debate. Just a thought worth keeping in mind...

I think the problem is that anything that isn't pro-islam is considered an attack, even if it's a response to a valid a question with a proper answer.

dlofnep

Dav wrote: »

As an aside, dlofnep, why feel the need to "attack" anything? Why not just debate against it? Choice of language sets tone and tone sets the flow of a thread and when one party on a thread is "under attack" then they "fight back" rather than debate. Just a thought worth keeping in mind...

Semantics really. I feel the need to attack religion, because it directly interferes in the affairs of others. I can 'attack' the politics of a party, I can 'attack' the ideology of a movement (KKK for example). It is only religion that has been afforded this protective bubble to distance it from criticism. Attack/Debate - it's the same thing really.. You have someone defending a position, and someone attacking a position - which results in debate.

dlofnep

Hobbes wrote: »

The forum isn't a debate forum (in that the religions existence is not up for debate). The forum is for muslims to discuss Islam. It is also a place where anyone can enter and ask questions about Islam, and get answers that are not of the "omg all Muslims are evil" kind.

Nobody stated that all Muslims are evil. Infact, I've been a vocal supporter of many Muslim related issues. If the forum isn't for creating debate, then posters can be spoon-fed on Islam, without hearing objective counters from those who oppose Islamic doctrine.

Hobbes wrote: »

If they want those sort of posts, there a numerous other forums on boards that suffice, and you will find many such posts.

So what you are saying is that Muslims should have a protective bubble, where their faith cannot be discussed and critiqued - while all other religious forums on boards allow for a much broader scale of debate?

Hobbes wrote: »

The forum is not for people who have an issue with Islam. It is like in big letters in the charter.

And that is what this thread is here to discuss - to open up the forum so that posters can hear two sides, before passing judgement.

Hobbes wrote: »

If you do have a beef with Islam, you can still post there. But you need to word your responses so they do not antagonize others. The muslims are not on trial in the forum. There have been a number of posters who are anti-Islam that post/respond in the forum and are capable of remaining within the charters rules.

I'm not particularly anti-Islam, I have a grievance with all religion. If Muslims feel antagonized, then they can report the said post - like any other forum on boards.

Hobbes wrote: »

As per the usual posts I have done today, feel free to pick parts of my post apart looking for some thing to justify imaginary persecutions. I won't be responding further. As continually repeating the obvious appears not to work (+already flagged for admins to look at).

I take issue with you asserting that passages of the Qur'an are taken out of context. You certainly are not the infallible authority on Islamic doctrine. So If I state that Islam allows for a man to beat his wife, and places the female as a subservient member of a relationship - You shouldn't threaten posters for highlighting it and telling us it has been taken out of context. Engage in debate by all means, and give us your subjective view as to why you feel it is taken out of context. That makes for a much more valid, and sensible means for debate.

nesf

I think the fundamental question is whether religion forums are allowed to restrict content to that only positive about their religion or not. The Islam forum is by far the strictest when it comes to this among the religion forums.

I'll be honest, I'm not entirely comfortable with this stance but it's not my call here. I can and will investigate cases where the mods are acting unfairly but I cannot rewrite a charter on a whim.

Penn

Hobbes wrote: »

I'm not a Muslim and it was me who moderated the thread.

The forum isn't a debate forum (in that the religions existence is not up for debate). The forum is for muslims to discuss Islam. It is also a place where anyone can enter and ask questions about Islam, and get answers that are not of the "omg all Muslims are evil" kind.

If they want those sort of posts, there a numerous other forums on boards that suffice, and you will find many such posts.

The forum is not for people who have an issue with Islam. It is like in big letters in the charter.

If you do have a beef with Islam, you can still post there. But you need to word your responses so they do not antagonize others. The muslims are not on trial in the forum. There have been a number of posters who are anti-Islam that post/respond in the forum and are capable of remaining within the charters rules.

By the same token, if someone comes back with a response about the religion that is anathema to you, that is where you leave it.

As per the usual posts I have done today, feel free to pick parts of my post apart looking for some thing to justify imaginary persecutions. I won't be responding further. As continually repeating the obvious appears not to work (+already flagged for admins to look at).

This is the part which worries me to be honest. I was always under the impression that every public forum was for everyone to discuss the topic of the forum, regardless of what their opinion on the topic is, so long as they followed standard Boards guidelines and the forum charter. But I don't think any forum charter should be saying that the forum is only for XXXXX to discuss the topic.

I've received numerous PMs in the past asking why we allow people who don't generally believe in conspiracy theories and who spend most of the time disproving theories to post on the forum. It's because it's unfair for someone to not be allowed to post because their own opinions or beliefs are different. So long as they stick to the charter like every other poster has to, they should be allowed to discuss the topic too. I don't see how any forum should be for XXXXX to discuss a certain topic, it should be for anyone to discuss the topic so long as they remain respectful.

I don't see why any religion forum should be allowed to impose these rules whereas the others don't. I agree that the regulars of the Islam forum shouldn't have to constantly put up with abuse.... but as with every forum, if someone comes in and starts posting abuse, ban them.

Orion

Hobbes wrote: »

The forum isn't a debate forum (in that the religions existence is not up for debate). The forum is for muslims to discuss Islam. It is also a place where anyone can enter and ask questions about Islam, and get answers that are not of the "omg all Muslims are evil" kind.

This is the crux of the problem. Any "omg all Muslims are evil" posts should of course be deleted but why not allow critical debate about the religion? It's a forum and all opinions should be accepted. In the thread in question posters were infracted for honestly answering the OP. And while these posts may have been construed as anti-Islam they were not non-factual and thus did not deserve the infractions received.

imo this forum is moderated zealously. It should not purely be for muslims to discuss Islam - there are plenty of arenas for that. It should be an arena for Islam to be discussed ... full stop. If that means critical posts of the religion then so be it. Flaming and trolling should be dealt with with extreme prejudice of course - but that should not preclude criticism of the religion. If believers cannot handle criticism then they should just back off.

irishconvert is extremely intolerant of opposing views of Islam. Hobbes, isn't too far behind despite not being muslim and just enforces the charter. I don't think this forum can be 'fixed' easily. It needs heavy moderation because of anti-muslim sentiment but must allow opposing opinions. A complete overhaul of the forum is needed that will allow debate and opposition.

Hank_Jones

There seems to be a few problems with regards this.

The Islam forum (and religion) is most likely viewed in this country as a minority.
We should probably understand that the ratios of Muslims to Catholics/Atheists etc is quite substantial.

Every forum allows discussion regarding the subjects in question though,
I fail to see why Islam should gain a pass with regard to this.

The Christianity forum discuss elements that are questioned with regards this,
I fail to see why certain "questions" should not be "welcomed" in the Islam forum.

The vast majority of people on these forums are looking for honest debate and to interact with others and understand.
Seems apprehensive that this isn't allowed.

Personally, I have always thought of boards as somewhere that was forward thinking and allowed discussions that weren't forthcoming in other domains.
I would hate to see that change.

Rev Hellfire

Perhaps what's needed is one or two super threads in the forum to deal with the confrontational topics brought up against Islam.

There are ones in both the Atheist and Christian forums so that contentious issues can be dealt with while allowing the main body of posts not get derailed with the same topics time and time again.

Its a logical solution that seems to work quite well in other similar forums.

Doctor DooM

Hobbes wrote: »

I'm not a Muslim and it was me who moderated the thread.

The forum isn't a debate forum (in that the religions existence is not up for debate). The forum is for muslims to discuss Islam.
As per the usual posts I have done today, feel free to pick parts of my post apart looking for some thing to justify imaginary persecutions. I won't be responding further. As continually repeating the obvious appears not to work (+already flagged for admins to look at).

I'm just going to leave what I have already said here (just in case you think it's me picking your post apart- it's not, I believe it's the route cause of the problem. And it is a problem, when it's one rule for some and another for others).

I think part of the overall problem (and I am a keen watcher, if not frequent poster in the religious forums) is that other forums accept if not even encourage a healthy debate with their opposite numbers (for example, dead one is right now posting in A + A his opinions, the opposite of which is not allowed).

It's even more complicated when you consider another forum which contains a "reviled" religion at the moment (the Christianity forum, they have some Catholic posters in there and the amount of abuse being thrown that way site wide is huge) encourages a huge amount of interaction with non Christians (thanks to the sterling work of PDN and Fanny). When you consider to people outside of both these faiths they appear to be roughly similar, I can see where the confusion arises.

As for my personal opinion... it does seem... anthithetical to Boards that in the Christianity forum they are not even allowed have a "Christian responses only" thread (I believe that was passed down from an Admin) whereas you've just said basically that the Islam forum is JUST for Muslims. I was under the opinion that no public forum on Boards was for any "type" of person.

EDIT: This isn't meant as a personal attack... it's just, can't you see why this is always going to be a continuing issue?

Wibbs

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Perhaps what's needed is one or two super threads in the forum to deal with the confrontational topics brought up against Islam.

There are ones in both the Atheist and Christian forums so that contentious issues can be dealt with while allowing the main body of posts not get derailed with the same topics time and time again.

Its a logical solution that seems to work quite well in other similar forums.

+1

dlofnep

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Perhaps what's needed is one or two super threads in the forum to deal with the confrontational topics brought up against Islam.

There are ones in both the Atheist and Christian forums so that contentious issues can be dealt with while allowing the main body of posts not get derailed with the same topics time and time again.

Its a logical solution that seems to work quite well in other similar forums.

The problem I have with this is that it sweeps criticism under the carpet in the form of a single thread, that curious parties might never look at, and if they do - they might have to trawl through pages of discussion to find something that they are interested in.

I think discussion should be open on all threads - and the said threads moderated like any other forum on boards. The difference between the Christian forum and what you have outlined is that, even though there is a thread geared for contentious issues - in most cases, debate and discussion is still allowed in all threads.

I'm for full and open debate in all threads.

Wolfe Tone

I think its grand, its a forum for Muslims to talk about Islam. They shouldn't have to defend themselves constantly, or have their religion attacked all the time, I dare say the number of people who would post if the rules were changed to slag off or rip into Islam would be far greater than the number of Muslims on the forum.

If you want to attack it just post in the Atheist forum. This site is a big one, I'm sure if people want an alternate view on Islam the obvious place to seek one would be the atheist forum.

If the approach dlofnep wanted was adapted there would be little scope for real discussion among Muslims, it would just be irishconvert defending his religion. I think a zero tolerance approach is the good one to take.

I've asked a few questions on the forum and I never had any problem.

Destroyer666

Dont feel sorry for them, while I know a few Muslims and they are nice people they really cant handle any form of critisism at all. For instance they are very quick to debate catholic issues and the likes when questions are put in there direction from my mates its you dont understand Islam you are ignorant etc, so what can you say to them then. Ill bet if they were on a Christian forum it would be a different matter doubt anybody would ban them or anything of the sort. Im immune to all religion so Im not talking sides but at least you can slag Catholics or Christians in good spirt without worrying about repercussions.

biko

Being strictly anti-religious I agree with Hobbes, there is a need for a forum where the participants doesn't have to spend their time defending their religion but instead can discuss issues that concern believers.
Same goes for Christianity forum.

If anyone wants to attack religious beliefs there are other boards forums for that.

nesf

biko wrote: »

Being strictly anti-religious I agree with Hobbes, there is a need for a forum where the participants doesn't have to spend their time defending their religion but instead can discuss issues that concern believers.
Same goes for Christianity forum.

If anyone wants to attack religious beliefs there are other boards forums for that.

Shouldn't that not be a private forum though advertised in people's signatures?

I mean we have the exact same situation in Politics with Republicans. It's impossible for Republicans to have a chat about Republican issues without someone sticking their oar in and attacking the entire movement. The solution: a private forum with strict access conditions that gives Republicans a place to discuss stuff in peace.

Hobbes

dlofnep wrote: »

The problem I have with this is that it sweeps criticism under the carpet in the form of a single thread,.

If you have a community forum, where people are allowed to attack that communities beliefs, what you end up with is a community left with attackers.

Who wants to stay in a community where they are continually attacked? I certainly wouldn't.

dlofnep it is quite clear from your history on the forum (warnings/bans/posts over the years) that you do not like Islam. That is fine. What is not fine is trying to push that agenda against people who do not agree with you.

Which is why you were continually asked to use another forum if you wanted to push that agenda.

[edit] a previous moderator from years ago explains it better.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52958944&postcount=184

Infront wrote:

The Islam forum is there to... discuss Islam - the difference of opinion with regard to any given topic would be coming from the differing schools of thought within Islam. It's about putting forward Islamic theories and saying "well this sheikh says x", "this imam says y", "so looking at both I think...xyz"

I can't imagine it was set up so that some people would come in and say "hey Muslims, what makes you believe all of that holy stuff, that's rubbish?". If someone isn't interested in listening to an Islamic teaching (and agreeing or disagreeing) or on the Muslim perspective of something (and agreeing or disagreeing), I'm not sure why they'd post in there. That's why the charter makes it clear that it's not for Muslims to have to defend the faith. As someone said earlier, there's lots of other forums where people can and do say what they want about Islam.

dlofnep

Hobbes wrote: »

If you have a community forum, where people are allowed to attack that communities beliefs, what you end up with is a community left with attackers.

The Christianity forum seem to be doing just fine.

Hobbes wrote: »

dlofnep it is quite clear from your history on the forum (warnings/bans/posts over the years) that you do not like Islam. That is fine. What is not fine is trying to push that agenda against people who do not agree with you.

Hold up a second - I'm not pushing an 'agenda'. I'm voicing my 'opinion'. Would you say that Muslims in the Islam forum are 'pushing an agenda'? Doubtful, so please don't make it as if I have some sort of conspiracy against Islam. I dislike all religious doctrine, and as such wish to voice my objections against it. Boards.ie has always been the beacon of progressive discussion, and the Islam forum seems to be the only forum on boards that actively prohibits it.

Hobbes wrote: »

Which is why you were continually asked to use another forum if you wanted to push that agenda.

Why should I use another forum to discuss Islam? Why are some posters offered a pedestal to preach about Islam, while others are swept under the carpet because they might have vocal objections to some of the doctrines of Islam (Or indeed, any organised religion).

I can go into the boxing forum and criticise boxers, I can go into the Christianity forum and criticise the actions of the Church, I can go into the music forum and criticise a band, the palaeontology forum and criticise the theory of t-rex being a scavenger - But when it comes to criticising Islam, there is a special exception where all criticism is threatened with infractions.

So it's moot if I'm a vocal opponent of Islamic doctrine and organised religion in general - My opinion is as valid, as any other on the topic.

Tom Dunne

dlofnep wrote: »

Semantics really. I feel the need to attack religion, because it directly interferes in the affairs of others. I can 'attack' the politics of a party, I can 'attack' the ideology of a movement (KKK for example). It is only religion that has been afforded this protective bubble to distance it from criticism. Attack/Debate - it's the same thing really.. You have someone defending a position, and someone attacking a position - which results in debate.

I'm sorry, but it's not semantics. If I have learned one thing from this site, it is that language used sets the tone of the discussion, especially on a text based medium like this.

You can robustly debate matters without resorting to outright confrontation and hostility. Given the emotive issue that is any religion, this is especially important.

If you have a community forum, where people are allowed to attack that communities beliefs, what you end up with is a community left with attackers.

Who wants to stay in a community where they are continually attacked? I certainly wouldn't.

Absolutely agree 100%. This should never be the situation on Boards.ie. However, you have a certain percentage of the population who view all types of religion with contempt, and Islam is no different in that manner. We, as moderators/cmods/admins have to manage these people with all the tools available to us.

dlofnep

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I'm sorry, but it's not semantics. If I have learned one thing from this site, it is that language used sets the tone of the discussion, especially on a text based medium like this.

You're dwelling on a single word, when there's a much more important debate to be had. I already explained my intention of the word 'attack'. Let's assume that we will 'robustly debate' issues - The problem with censorship still exists.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Absolutely agree 100%. This should never be the situation on Boards.ie. However, you have a certain percentage of the population who view all types of religion with contempt, and Islam is no different in that manner. We, as moderators/cmods/admins have to manage these people with all the tools available to us.

And we have that right to treat religion with contempt. The same way many within the religious community treat homosexuals with contempt, women who dress inappropriately with contempt, those who do not adhere to a specific doctrine with contempt. Why exactly should we not voice our views, provided it's in a constructive and sensible manner?

What exactly is it that religion has that excuses it from criticism? What special position has it been afforded that allows it to say 'It's ok to beat my wife under certain circumstances' - But not for us to say 'I treat such a view with contempt'?

Wolfe Tone

So you want to go into a religious forum and detail how you have contempt for that religion?

dlofnep

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

So you want to go into a religious forum and detail how you have contempt for that religion?

If a specific doctrine is being discussed and I find it contemptible, then yes - I want the opportunity to express my view on the matter. Perhaps you'd care to explain why I shouldn't be afforded that opportunity, when it exists in every other forum on boards.ie, including other religious fora.

Tom Dunne

dlofnep wrote: »

You're dwelling on a single word, when there's a much more important debate to be had. I already explained my intention of the word 'attack'. Let's assume that we will 'robustly debate' issues - The problem with censorship still exists.

I am dwelling on one point because it is important.

dlofnep wrote: »

And we have that right to treat religion with contempt.

We all do, of course. However, on this site, you have whatever rights those in charge deem appropriate. And you must abide by them.

dlofnep wrote: »

Why exactly should we not voice our views, provided it's in a constructive and sensible manner?

I have no problem with that.

dlofnep wrote: »

What exactly is it that religion has that excuses it from criticism? What special position has it been afforded that allows it to say 'It's ok to beat my wife under certain circumstances' - But not for us to say 'I treat such a view with contempt'?

I am not getting into the details of the wife beating argument, that is a thread and a topic that has proven to be quite emotive and is not for discussion on the Feedback forum.

However, I do not agree that religion is excused from criticism. However, the Islam forum is for discussing Islam. As Dav has alluded to, there are plenty examples across the site where there is a pro-topic bias, so it is not unusual. Just as women need to feel they can post in the Ladies Lounge with a bias towards women, Muslims should feel the same about the Islam forum.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

So you want to go into a religious forum and detail how you have contempt for that religion?

I agree. I do not see the logic of this.

dlofnep

Tom Dunne wrote: »

However, I do not agree that religion is excused from criticism. However, the Islam forum is for discussing Islam.

Yes - and I never said it was not for discussing Islam. But what many aspire to see, is that the pros and cons of Islam are discussed. If boards.ie want the Islam forum to be purely for only posts in favour of Islam to be permitted, then fine - I will adhere to it.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

As Dav has alluded to, there are plenty examples across the site where there is a pro-topic bias, so it is not unusual. Just as women need to feel they can post in the Ladies Lounge with a bias towards women, Muslims should feel the same about the Islam forum.

I can't think of one other forum on boards that has the levels of intolerance to criticism that the Islam forum has. Of course there will be a bias in favour of the said topic in all forums, but all allow varying levels of criticism. That's the difference.

I'm not attempting or seeking to change the Islam forum into a forum purely to bash Islam - What I am seeking is that if a controversial topic arises, that we are allowed to debate it, without being threatened with infractions.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I agree. I do not see the logic of this.

You don't see the logic of being afforded the opportunity to criticise a religious doctrine?

-Chris-

You need two forums:

Information about Islam
Open Discussion of Islam

Hobbes

-Chris- wrote: »

You need two forums:

Information about Islam
Open Discussion of Islam

- Islam Forum.
- Any other forum, like AH, Humanities, politics, etc.