September 4, Stage 15: Avilés - Anglirú 144km

Hermy

Thanks Inq - just realised if I delete the mobile bit from the link I get what you just posted.

retalivity

Hermy wrote: »

I've just read here that Boonen is out with a broken scaphoid.

the poor bastard had a hole in his ballbag earlier in the week

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/01092011/58/vuelta-espa-boonen-riding-despite-scrotum-injury.html


what a pussy to pull out now"!! :P

donfers

How has Froome improved so much so suddenly? before this race he was just an honest domestique, now in his mid twenties he is suddenly second in a grand tour - how has he managed such a leap in ability?

Was he plagued by injuries in recent seasons or something?

dave2pvd

spokeydokey wrote: »

It's interesting that Chris Froome finished in 120th place 33'14'' behind Cobo on this stage. He was at 48 seconds today.

I don't think that's interesting.

Why do you think that's interesting?

Morrisseeee

seve65 wrote: »

zoncolan comes up as 64th in terms of difficulty on climbbybike
http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?qryMountainID=36

I cant even begin to think how difficult these two climbs are. Too scared to even look at the other harder 63 !?

It says the Scanuppia (7.5km @ 17.6%) is ranked at no. 6, so what the heck is no. 1 ?? :eek:

There's a climb in Switzerland (15.3km @ 11.2%), and it's only ranked 13.
Yet these 2 are the No. 1 & 2 on the top 20 of most difficult climbs on the site. Somehow I think that 'difficulty ranking' is based on something else.

Then the Q is raised, how to judge 'hardest' or 'toughest' ??!! eg. is a 10km @ 10% harder than a 20km @ 5% !! Is Angliru slightly easier than Zoncolon because it has a few spots where you can recover, or does the Angliru's weather tip it in it's favour etc etc.

The list being:
1. Scanuppia-Malga Palazzo
2. Alp Rionda
3. Grosser Speikkogel
4. Pico-de-Veleta
5. Mt-Haleakala
6. Mount Washington
7. San Genesio - Edelweiss
8. Grosser Oscheniksee
9. Pico Ariero
10. Alpe Fuori
11. Kitzbüheler Horn
12. Edelweiss
13. Nebelhorn
14. Prato Maslino
15. Colle-delle-Finestre
16. Prada-Alta
17. Oetztaler-Gletscherstrasse
18. Roque de los Muchachos
19. Rifugio-Kaltenbach
20. Pic-du-Midi

TheBlaaMan

Climbbybike.com climb difficulty index

There are several ways in which to classify the difficulty of mountains. Climbbybike has developed its own formula, in an effort to reflect the most important aspects in a well-weighted manner, the climbbybike difficulty index.

CLIMBBYBIKE-INDEX
(H/D*100)*4 + H²/D + D/1000 + (T-1000)/100

Whereby: H = difference in height; D = distance in meters; T = top of mountain in meters

The last part of the formula does only apply to mountains above 1000 meters.

Morrisseeee

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Climbbybike.com climb difficulty index

There are several ways in which to classify the difficulty of mountains. Climbbybike has developed its own formula, in an effort to reflect the most important aspects in a well-weighted manner, the climbbybike difficulty index.

CLIMBBYBIKE-INDEX
(H/D*100)*4 + H²/D + D/1000 + (T-1000)/100

Whereby: H = difference in height; D = distance in meters; T = top of mountain in meters

The last part of the formula does only apply to mountains above 1000 meters.

That formula gives their 'Difficulty Score', eg. Scanuppia=314, but it doesn't explain their 'Difficulty Ranking', which puts Scanuppia at '6'. Ranking obviously implies.............well some kind of rank, ie. a 1 to 10 or 1 to 1000 or A to Z etc. Which means when Seve65 thought Zoncolon had a 'ranking' of 64, it didn't mean it was 64th in the list of all-time difficult climbs (all a bit confusing really!!).

seve65

Morrisseeee wrote: »

It says the Scanuppia (7.5km @ 17.6%) is ranked at no. 6, so what the heck is no. 1 ?? :eek:

There's a climb in Switzerland (15.3km @ 11.2%), and it's only ranked 13.
Yet these 2 are the No. 1 & 2 on the top 20 of most difficult climbs on the site. Somehow I think that 'difficulty ranking' is based on something else.

Then the Q is raised, how to judge 'hardest' or 'toughest' ??!! eg. is a 10km @ 10% harder than a 20km @ 5% !! Is Angliru slightly easier than Zoncolon because it has a few spots where you can recover, or does the Angliru's weather tip it in it's favour etc etc.

The list being:
1. Scanuppia-Malga Palazzo
2. Alp Rionda
3. Grosser Speikkogel
4. Pico-de-Veleta
5. Mt-Haleakala
6. Mount Washington
7. San Genesio - Edelweiss
8. Grosser Oscheniksee
9. Pico Ariero
10. Alpe Fuori
11. Kitzbüheler Horn
12. Edelweiss
13. Nebelhorn
14. Prato Maslino
15. Colle-delle-Finestre
16. Prada-Alta
17. Oetztaler-Gletscherstrasse
18. Roque de los Muchachos
19. Rifugio-Kaltenbach
20. Pic-du-Midi

reeading some of the reviews, 1 guy who had cycled the zoncolan, rated scanuppia harder, not surprising really. Superficially average 11% for 15K on that swiss climb seems easier on the surface than 7.5k at 17.6% to me.

seve65

that scanuppia has 1 section of a kilometer averaging 25%, thats the steepest bit of patricks hill for 1 kilometer !!!!

seve65

45 f***ing percent ?

Morrisseeee

seve65 wrote: »

that scanuppia has 1 section of a kilometer averaging 25%, thats the steepest bit of patricks hill for 1 kilometer !!!!

I'll bet you're booking your flight tickets as I speak/write :pac:

Morrisseeee

/Back on topic:
Cobo & Froome, where the heck have they pulled these performances out of ???!!
The case FOR Cobo:
He's fresh
He has a little bit of climbing history
Last years (zero) form was because he was with a different team (!)
He had different gearing to others on Angliru (34*32)

The case AGAINST:
Very little form since 2009 (zero in 2010, 3rd overall Vuelta A Burgos 2011)
He's 5'9 @ 69kg (compared to Anton 5'9 59kg or Dan Martin 5'10 @ 62kg)
He's 30 years old
8 secs faster on the toughest bit of the Angliru (5.5km) than Contador in 2008
6.2w/kg on Angliru (compared to 5.6w/kg for Nibali/Rodriguez)
Never seemed to be struggling on Angliru & finished fresh
6.06w/kg on Lagos de Somiedo
<snip>

ROK ON

I watched the climb on the web. He (Cobo) looked very very relaxed. On whether you can read anything into that Morisseee, I'm not sure.

I find it interesting that Froome's contract was not being extended by Sky. Seems as if he had all the motivation he needed for a big performance. Some guys just seem to need a bit of a kick in the pants to get the finger out.

Pherekydes

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Cobo & Froome

The case AGAINST [Cobo]:
Very little form...etc.

And the case against Froome?

Morrisseeee

Pherekydes wrote: »

And the case against Froome?

I'm preparing that file for the DPP atm so hang tough :pac:
Seriously tho, I don't know what to make of him, his AGAINST case is similar to Cobo's, and he's done alot of work for Wiggins aswell, ie. into the wind, and he looks like he could have been holding back !!

TheBlaaMan

Lots of great pics of the stage are at http://www.steephill.tv/2011/vuelta-a-espana/photos/stage-15/
Interesting to see the (relative) lack of pain on the eventual winners face on the climb, compared to his pursuers.
Note the last comment on the page - Steephill.tv too, wonders about the win......

"We here at steephill.tv always like it when the Queen Stage winner becomes the new race leader. An epic day... lets hope it was for real"

Aln_S

Another expert witness to add to the case.http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/9675/Vuelta-a-Espana-Jean-Francois-Bernard-doubts-Cobos-authenticity.aspx

kennyb3

Watched it in full last night having caught half of the final climb before that. <snip>

Lumen

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I'm preparing that file for the DPP atm so hang tough :pac:
Seriously tho, I don't know what to make of him, his AGAINST case is similar to Cobo's, and he's done alot of work for Wiggins aswell, ie. into the wind, and he looks like he could have been holding back !!

This line of argument is futile. Once you've convinced yourself that the red jersey is unauthentic, then what? How about the next guy? And the next? What about the riders who attack all the time even when they're injured? What about gnarly old riders who have slogged away for years without a top five tour placing claiming to be clean and yet are now able for it?

Whilst the bio passport system is necessarily fallible, at least it's based on statistical analysis of actual test results, rather that idle speculation based on power outputs crudely extrapolated from VAM.

Patience, grasshopper.

Morrisseeee

Lumen wrote: »

This line of argument is futile. Once you've convinced yourself that the red jersey is unauthentic, then what? How about the next guy? And the next? What about the riders who attack all the time even when they're injured? What about gnarly old riders who have slogged away for years without a top five tour placing claiming to be clean and yet are now able for it?

Whilst the bio passport system is necessarily fallible, at least it's based on statistical analysis of actual test results, rather that idle speculation based on power outputs crudely extrapolated from VAM.

Patience, grasshopper.

Sorry oh wise one, looks like I 'jumped' into the long grass of conclusions too quick.
Nibali has spoken aswell :

"Yes, he hasn’t ridden like that since the Tour stage at Hautacam in 2008"

:rolleyes:

Beasty

Doping speculation is against the Charter

(although you can link to reports that may be speculative, you cannot say "xxx's performance is suspicious")

TheBlaaMan

Beasty wrote: »

you can link to reports that may be speculative, you cannot say "xxx's performance is suspicious)

This OK ?
Cobo’s long, strange trip to Vuelta lead

Beasty

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

This OK ?
Cobo’s long, strange trip to Vuelta lead

Yes - linking to stuff that's in the public domain is fine

Lumen

@Morrisseeee. my opinion is that it is very difficult to analyse performances in week three of a grand tour, even with all the data and test results to hand (which we don't have). At this stage in the race everyone is suffering "majorly", but some riders get relatively stronger, others weaker.

It would be interesting to know all the dates he's been tested, including during his "quiet" training period. I imagine there's a bit of paper shuffling going on behind the scenes.