APHCI

spireland32

wilser wrote: »

Is it not a good thing that the "electrician with no plumbing background" gets reassessed?
Weather we like it or not these guys are rgi and should be reassessed, likewise so should everyone else.
Guaranteed every plumber at the game 30 years learned something new during that 18 day course, what harm is I reassessment?

No electricans should not be gas fitters, they're electricians. Do you think we could be an 18 day course and be RECI? It wouldnt and shouldnt be allowed. The cost and format is the harm.

spireland32

shane 007 wrote: »

IMO, I think this thread is better discussed in the RGI Tech Forum.
These sort of threads always seem to go beyond what they are supposed to & it is all to do with RGI's & not for the "in full view of the public".

Spireland32, would you be willing to take the discussion to that forum? APCHI is something I am extremely interested in, would be very willing to be involved with, but I feel I have too many concerns that are rarely dealt with IMO, nor answered.

Having digs at Mods or the like is never going to get off on a good footing & I thought we got over our little hang bag dancing.

No thanks. This is in public interest why hide it away on a hidden forum

If someone digs
Ill dig back

spireland32

Also regarding cost... you have to pay for the course (obviously) and also will be out of work so if your self employed.... its a double hit.

scudo2

shane 007 wrote: »

IMO, I think this thread is better discussed in the RGI Tech Forum.
These sort of threads always seem to go beyond what they are supposed to & it is all to do with RGI's & not for the "in full view of the public".

Spireland32, would you be willing to take the discussion to that forum? APCHI is something I am extremely interested in, would be very willing to be involved with, but I feel I have too many concerns that are rarely dealt with IMO, nor answered.

Having digs at Mods or the like is never going to get off on a good footing & I thought we got over our little hang bag dancing.

RGII forum would be better/private, but I only posted here to allow the non RGII plumbers to also see it.
And the fact that APHCI topic was already on P&H forum.
And APHCI can repersent more concerns to us than just gas.
Nearly 8,500 vews on this topic (APHCI) can't be wrong

DGOBS

Re-assessment is €375 with a €200 credit return

Yes I do some contract work for a training centre, most of the lads here know that I think as most know me personally, does that infer I don't know what I am talking about?

Your PM response to me when I told you I performed gas training was, to recoil as my view mustn't be valid in your eyes.

I have no conflict of interest more than a member of APCHI does on this thread.
And I don't make up statements like reassessment costing €1000
I have never seen a taxman in the training centre where I work, as there has always been an entry criteria which has been enforced.
30 years on the game, does not prove anything, I have seen both good and bad lads working in gas for some years.

Such a drama, reassessment costs €375, if the person requires training to pass it, well, surely after 30 years experience in the industry they should know all the BASIC gas safety tests.....so no need for training then eh?

You post on behalf of APCHI, under the forum charter, you must be a registered spokesperson to do that, that's why you have been contacted.
It's what you agreed to when you became a member here.

But hey, it's also what you agreed to (5 year re-assessment) when you signed up as an RGI, or did you not read the criteria document?

spireland32

DGOBS wrote: »

Re-assessment is €357 with a €2200 credit return

Yes I do some contract work for a training centre, most of the lads here know that I think as most know me personally, does that infer I don't know what I am talking about?

Your PM response to me when I told you I performed gas training was, to recoil as my view mustn't be valid in your eyes.

I have no conflict of interest more than a member of APCHI does on this thread.
And I don't make up statements like reassessment costing €1000
I have never seen a taxman in the training centre where I work, as there has always been an entry criteria which has been enforced.
30 years on the game, does not prove anything, I have seen both good and bad lads working in gas for some years.

Such a drama, reassessment costs €375, if the person requires training to pass it, well, surely after 30 years experience in the industry they should know all the BASIC gas safety tests.....so no need for training then eh?

You post on behalf of APCHI, under the forum charter, you must be a registered spokesperson to do that, that's why you have been contacted.
It's what you agreed to when you became a member here.

But hey, it's also what you agreed to (5 year re-assessment) when you signed up as an RGI, or did you not read the criteria document?

You told me? No you didnt, I knew you had your hands in both pies. Dont be telling porkies now tony. Go back and read the PMs.

If your not interested in the aphci thats fine but dont slate them because your not interested. Trying to improve the industry after every tom dick and harry is now an rgi.

The quailty of work from the qualified guys is bad enough never mind 18 day lads.

"Whats that?"

This... a U-gauge.

And this guy past the GID course I was on.

Sorry have to go to the lockup now and get the kango for the morning. No rest for the wicked as the fella says

DGOBS

PMed you on 01-05-2014, 22:46

Re: Re Your CF Quadrant Post
I'm not sure as your not a 'company member' let me come back to you on it, will refer it up the chain, as I want to avoid closing the thread.

I know the training centre well (as I do some training) and to be honest there is no love lost between them, hence you see FAS (or Solas) applying to do the assessments etc too.

You replied:

Re: Re Your CF Quadrant Post
No wonder your for reassessment if you and others on here will get work out out of it.

Conflict of interest with you being a mod, you can censor what doesn't suit you

What have I censored regarding any training, training centres etc?
Please point out any conflict of interest, I will gladly pass this to another moderator to overview.

I am not slating APCHI, I am voicing a point of view, APCHI should be a good thing, but I believe that the scaremongering that's going on over a 5 year assessment that all other countries have for gas plumbers/fitters/technicians is incorrect, and I wish a true portrayal of the facts were given.
All I see is the cost is going to be €1000, but if your competent is not €1000 it's a net cost of €175! (plus 2 days lost)

shane 007

The net cost of re-assessment is €175 for 5 years.
If I am a member of APCHI & go to a manufacturer CPD, APCHI will cost me €500 for the same 5 years but I will receive no assessment, no way of measuring my competency & the training I will receive will be predominantly sales based.

If the installer has sufficient ability to know his/her gas trade, is up-to-date with the current IS813 requirements, then training does not come into it. He/she just does their assessment.
However, if he/she is not up-to-date, then what is wrong with having the option to avail of completely optional training?

Working 30 years in a environment with no checks is not always a indication of ability to do the job.

I know of veteran qualified plumbers who have nearly become killers due to their inability to read a manual or lack of interest to up skill, I also know new entrants who put me to shame with their work ethic and knowledge.

I would prefer if a RGIs skill level/good working practise was the question of the day irrespective of age.

Also wouldn't it suit the more experienced plumbers to fight for the test bar to be raised to push out those who shouldn't be working in the industry, that would be a fight I'd like to see Apchi take up.

shane 007

scudo2 wrote: »

And APHCI can repersent more concerns to us than just gas.

So why are they not in talks with OFTEC, the renewable industry, heat pumps, HETAS for Solid Fuel dangers, etc.?
Why is it only gas based representation? I would love to know the answer to this question.

scudo2

DGOBS wrote: »

That is an incorrect statement, people can and do fail.
The training is designed to train for gas, hence the failure rate is low, but the assessment is fair and real, and people do fail if they haven't put in the work and prove their ability to a set criteria

Regarding entry requirements, electricians have been allowed entry for a loooong time, and why is it now only become a problem?

The problem here lies in the RGI......Registered Gas INSTALLER being a label that only PLUMBERS should carry, can someone who is not a plumber learn how to work SAFELY on a gas appliance or system...YES.....should he be allowed PLUMB gas as a non-plumber...ABSOULUTLEY NOT

The register IMHO should be divided into INSTALLER and TECHNICIANS (the former being plumbers only club)

Totaly agree on installers and tech parts been seperate + more, like LPG + Caravans etc etc.
If somebody needs all cert's then they should do them.
Lots of good/very good service engineers never fit or want to fit boilers or pipes and visa versa.

Let me finish by saying I'm not out to cause agro but to just pass on anything I hear about.

Doing oil is lonely, no group representing us, hence APHCI membership.





Let's not debate Oftec please, topic is APHCI protest to get recognised as a plumbers organisation, if people turn up all the better.



I'm all for retraining and keeping up to date in our relevant ocupitation but the last time I was in a caravan I was 9.
Lets train + keep retraining + up to date on relevant criteria for what we work at.

shane 007

scudo2 wrote: »

Let's not debate Oftec please, topic is APHCI protest to get recognised as a plumbers organisation, if people turn up all the better.

My point exactly. You, even as a member of APCHI, assume it is only gas they represent, but are they not trying to be the representative of Plumbing & Heating Contractors.
Therefore, OFTEC should be a huge part of this topic, along with every other aspect of our industry, not just gas.
If APCHI was what it should be, I would sign up in the morning & would probably bring a lot more with me.

scudo2 wrote: »

I'm all for retraining and keeping up to date in our relevant ocupitation but the last time I was in a caravan I was 9.
Lets train + keep retraining + up to date on relevant criteria for what we work at.

Again, exactly correct. I have yet to meet a decent installer/engineer who is not wanting to further themselves via training, etc.
So why is APCHI so against training? It's what the installers want.

spireland32

shane 007 wrote: »

My point exactly. You, even as a member of APCHI, assume it is only gas they represent, but are they not trying to be the representative of Plumbing & Heating Contractors.
Therefore, OFTEC should be a huge part of this topic, along with every other aspect of our industry, not just gas.
If APCHI was what it should be, I would sign up in the morning & would probably bring a lot more with me.



Again, exactly correct. I have yet to meet a decent installer/engineer who is not wanting to further themselves via training, etc.
So why is APCHI so against training? It's what the installers want.

Not against training... stop spouting nonsense.

OFTEC is not legally reconised like the RGI at this moment in time. Aphci is voluntary work... its ok for you to say do this do that, it takes a huge amount of time meeting the cer, rgi, organising trade nights with manufacturers and many many things that happen behind the scences on top of trying to run a business.

spireland32

gary71 wrote: »

Working 30 years in a environment with no checks is not always a indication of ability to do the job.

I know of veteran qualified plumbers who have nearly become killers due to their inability to read a manual or lack of interest to up skill, I also know new entrants who put me to shame with their work ethic and knowledge.

I would prefer if a RGIs skill level/good working practise was the question of the day irrespective of age.

Also wouldn't it suit the more experienced plumbers to fight for the test bar to be raised to push out those who shouldn't be working in the industry, that would be a fight I'd like to see Apchi take up.

True... 30 years of work does not necessarily mean safe gas work. Agree with you there.

PeteHeat

spireland32 wrote: »

No thanks. This is in public interest why hide it away on a hidden forum

If someone digs
Ill dig back

By all means announce it in the public arena as there are many who might like to know and support the campaign.

Like many threads this can go in many directions with different points of view being discussed so my penny's worth is I think it best to use the private forum for further discussions.

The facility is there for us to use, that's a lot more than many groups have, is it in anyone's interest to have some of these posts in the public arena?
.

scudo2

APHCI is trying their best to represent themselves, as in plumbers, as in all aspects, solar,gas, oil,solid fuel, stoves, etc.
I'm all for oil, I hate gas, but I'm willing to support all.
You've totaly misled if you think APHCI is for gas.
Its for PROFESSIONAL PLUMBERS
Again I'm only on the fringes but even an oiley like me can see the good intentions.







I never thought this would cause such a debate. Makes you wonder eh ?

shane 007

spireland32 wrote: »

Not against training... stop spouting nonsense

Both you & APCHI come across that way. The impression I am reading is you are against training centres making money from delivering what you call unnecessary training.
I have also heard that you wish to offer manufacturer CPD. We all know this is a nonsense method of delivering training as it is all about sales.
I also heard that APCHI stated that RGI's annual inspection is enough of a continuous assessment, now we all know the issues there.

For me, I like a level playing field, open to all who are competent to carry out the task in front of them. I like openness so that no hidden agendas are present. Nobody up the chain can benefit from my misfortunes, do as it says on the tin, that's what I like.

You put that in front of me & my question to you will be "where do I sign?"

scudo2

Guys, calm down.

Debating is totaly off topic and not relevant + don't help.





United we stand, and all that irrelevant nonsense.
I'm buying a Taxi.

shane 007

scudo2 wrote: »

Guys calm down.

Debating is totaly off topic and not relevant.

The thread is called APCHI & Boards is a discussion site. The debate is completely relevant to the thread & I don't think it's heated. I'm genuinely interested in the answers & the outcome.

Should we not be discussing APCHI in a thread called APCHI or is it solely for promoting event nights that money is made from?

If I started a thread about my company & what it does, I would be banned immediately for promoting my business. Visit the Prison Forum & see how many charities are banned in other forums for promoting an awareness event or a student doing a survey for a college project. APCHI has a long standing thread promoting itself & now you are saying that we cannot discuss APCHI on that thread!!!

spireland32

shane 007 wrote: »

Both you & APCHI come across that way. The impression I am reading is you are against training centres making money from delivering what you call unnecessary training.
I have also heard that you wish to offer manufacturer CPD. We all know this is a nonsense method of delivering training as it is all about sales.
I also heard that APCHI stated that RGI's annual inspection is enough of a continuous assessment, now we all know the issues there.

For me, I like a level playing field, open to all who are competent to carry out the task in front of them. I like openness so that so hidden agendas are present. Nobody up the chain can benefit from my misfortunes, do as it says on the tin, that's what I like.

You put that in front of me & my question to you will be "where do I sign?"

Why dont you come on board and press the issues that you feel are relevant? You seem to think you'd be great so why not join and try make a difference?

But you wont... you'll sit on the outside and say they should do this and that and the other. Easier to sit on boards and say thats a load of sh1te. Loads like you.

And there was a firebird and mira evening recently so not always gas evenings.

shane 007

spireland32 wrote: »

Why dont you come on board and press the issues that you feel are relevant? You seem to think you'd be great so why not join and try make a difference?

But you wont... you'll sit on the outside and say they should do this and that and the other. Easier to sit on boards and say thats a load of sh1te. Loads like you.

And there was a firebird and mira evening recently so not always gas evenings.

I wouldn't expect a more intelligent answer than that from you. Keep up the good work.

DGOBS

Attack the post, not the poster.
I know there's a lot of passion all sides here guys, but let's keep it a discussion ok

anthonyos

shane 007 wrote: »

I wouldn't expect a more intelligent answer than that from you. Keep up the good work.

It sound personal

shane 007

spireland32 wrote: »

And there was a firebird and mira evening recently so not always gas evenings.

Sorry, I thought APCHI was more than promotional nights paid for by the manufacturer. I thought they were industry negotiators that spoke to change things. What have ye done with regard to oil & gas & renewables?

shane 007

spireland32 wrote: »

Easier to sit on boards and say thats a load of sh1te. Loads like you.

And that comment is not personal?

scudo2

Why the debating/ fighting?

What's the problem ?

APHCI is only trying to represent plumbers, that's all, go to meetings and talk, if they can help with issues the'll listen.
No hidden agenda to take over the world.

But that would be nice.




"It good to talk "

But not to talk crap.

spireland32

There you go make it personally shane. Not sure what to say so you make it personally... again might I add.

APHCI is probably beneath you anyway... peasants.

So would you like to come to a meeting soon?

shane 007

spireland32 wrote: »

So would you like to come to a meeting soon?

lol, I don't think you would let me in. I'd probably be too busy picking splinters from my ass from sitting on the fence.

Nothing personal meant, so apologies if you took it that way.

spireland32

shane 007 wrote: »

Sorry, I thought APCHI was more than promotional nights paid for by the manufacturer. I thought they were industry negotiators that spoke to change things. What have ye done with regard to oil & gas & renewables?

Theres no legal bodies for oil and renewables to take up issues with... yet. Hopefully oftec with be soon though

spireland32

shane 007 wrote: »

lol, I don't think you would let me in. I'd probably be too busy picking splinters from my ass from sitting on the fence.

Nothing personal meant, so apologies if you took it that way.

No meant...? Pull the other one