Scary: Non-RCD protected wall mounted pump-shower!

Solair

Just tested the RCD in an apartment we're renting and decided, for the hell of it, to make sure that it tripped the shower too.

The shower continued pumping away after the RCD had been tripped.

It is sitting in the shower spray area and is only protected by a C20 MCB and a 13amp fuse !!!

The MCB is in the row after the RCD, but it does not appear to be connected to it.

It runs from there to a fused connection unit in the airing cupboard and the pump-shower is connected to that.

I also noticed that one of the knock-outs for plumbing access at the bottom of the shower is missing. So, in other words, there was plenty of opportunity for water ingress.

There are times when I really wonder about landlords. It should be illegal for any non-qualified person to carry out electrical work on shower installations. That could have killed me stone dead! In fact, in rental accommodation there should be a rule about requiring certification on any electrical work.

I am fuming with the landlord!

This kind of thing could kill someone, in this case, me.

cast_iron

I know it's the same setup in the apartment I live in, built mid 90s.
I don't think it's down to any cowboy electric work. It's also a pump rather than instantaneous.
Showers weren't required to have RCD protection back in the day, as far as I'm aware (thankfully I'm not that old )

Bruthal

cast_iron wrote: »

I know it's the same setup in the apartment I live in, built mid 90s.
I don't think it's down to any cowboy electric work. It's also a pump rather than instantaneous.
Showers weren't required to have RCD protection back in the day, as far as I'm aware (thankfully I'm not that old )

Yes true, i remember when they were not required. Its not overly dangerous without an RCD, but a functioning RCD practically eliminates any risk, and any shower found to not have one should not be used until one is fitted really.

By the mid 90`s they should of been fitted though.

cast_iron

robbie7730 wrote: »

..any shower found to not have one should not be used until one is fitted really.

Ah now, I'm not sure I'd view it as that critically urgent.
I really should get around to sorting mine out though:pac:

Bruthal

cast_iron wrote: »

Ah now, I'm not sure I'd view it as that critically urgent.
I really should get around to sorting mine out though:pac:

Probably not, and i am usually not too urgent on these matters myself, in reality it would be unlikely to be a fatal outcome even if the shower had a major fault. I have said in my last post its not overly dangerous without the RCD, but an RCD should be put on any instant electric shower that does not have one in my opinion.

The pumped mixer shower would be no real risk without the RCD, especially if fed with qualpex, or well bonded copper. Water is not the good conductor many assume, although it greatly reduces the skin resistance in contact with live connections. But the mixer pump itself is required to have an RCD these days. But thats probably how your one did not have an RCD, as a mixer shpwer does not really need one as such, and the pump didnt when it was installed first.


It is the instant showers that need the RCD the most, as the supply in there in the unit beside the user.

A mixer shower with electrical controls in the unit again should have an RCD too.

Solair

This is one of those Mira, mounted on the wall shower-pumps, not a pump in the hotpress.

Bruthal

Solair wrote: »

This is one of those Mira, mounted on the wall shower-pumps, not a pump in the hotpress.

Yea they definitely should have an RCD on it. if it was installed anytime recently without one, then it is a diy type job, or a plumber thats done the full install.

Solair

I'm surprised that an RCD-less shower installation was ever allowed. It seems potentially lethal.

All it would take is a live part of the shower to come into contact with water and for the person in the bath to be in contact with an easy route to earth e.g. a bath tap (bonded), older metal drain pipes or baths.

I find Irish and British bathroom wiring regulations somewhat hypocritical and totally illogical.

On the one hand they forbid sockets, light switches etc etc even where an RCD could be fitted to protect them, and on the other hand they allow a 32A water heater or a pump to be installed IN the shower cubical with only minimal IP protection i.e. they're splash proof, not water proof and clearly older regulations didn't even require RCD protection on these !?!

Madness!

There's no way I'm using that shower pump without an RCD. I will stop using it and just use the bath taps shower instead. If the landlord won't resolve the problem, I will just insist that the fused-connection unit be replaced with an RCD fused connection unit, even if I have to buy it and get it installed myself!

Bruthal

Solair wrote: »

I'm surprised that an RCD-less shower installation was ever allowed. It seems potentially lethal.

All it would take is a live part of the shower to come into contact with water and for the person in the bath to be in contact with an easy route to earth e.g. a bath tap (bonded), older metal drain pipes or baths.

Even in the events outlined there, it would be unlikely, almost impossible in fact, to lead to a fatal scenario once the shower is properly earthed. Little current would flow through a stream of water spraying from a shower head. Plenty of immersions used to fail, and the live end of the element would be into the water, and with no RCD on them, they would not trip. No one would be electrocuted by this.

I find Irish and British bathroom wiring regulations somewhat hypocritical and totally illogical.

On the one hand they forbid sockets, light switches etc etc even where an RCD could be fitted to protect them, and on the other hand they allow a 32A water heater or a pump to be installed IN the shower cubical with only minimal IP protection i.e. they're splash proof, not water proof and clearly older regulations didn't even require RCD protection on these !?!

Madness!

The problem with sockets would be the items that can be plugged in and used in a bathroom, more so than with the sockets themselves. Where as a shower is a fixed appliance with decent enough protection from water ingress.

The 32A aspect of it would have little bearing on the shock hazzard, a 6 amp circuit would be just as dangerous in terms of electrocution.

There's no way I'm using that shower pump without an RCD. I will stop using it and just use the bath taps shower instead. If the landlord won't resolve the problem, I will just insist that the fused-connection unit be replaced with an RCD fused connection unit, even if I have to buy it and get it installed myself!

You can just connect the MCB feeding the shower FCU to the RCD, or get a dedicated 20 amp RCBO fitted at the board, and leave the FCU as is. The FCU was not really needed though, if it was a dedicated circuit for the shower. Does the 20 amp MCB control anything else?

Is there an isolator for the shower, as there shopuld be?

Solair

There's no isolator other than the FCU in the airing cupboard, which is directly behind the shower pretty much.

It looks to me like a DIY job as there is trunking running from the consumer unit across the wall to the airing cupboard and it's run from there.

I don't even understand how they managed to get a non-RCD protected MCB it's on the RCD protected row i.e. along side all the socket circuits.

I think I might just swap the FCU for an RCD-FCU and leave it at that as it should at least prevent electrocution even if it's not entirely compliant with the installation codes.

Although, I suppose I will probably have to fit a double box and add an double pole isolator switch too. It wouldn't be a great idea to use an RCD as an isolator!

I can see this turning into a huge row with the landlady as she's unlikely to even understand the problem, let alone fix it.

Bruthal

Solair wrote: »

I don't even understand how they managed to get a non-RCD protected MCB it's on the RCD protected row i.e. along side all the socket circuits.

Is it the last MCB on the RCD row?

Although, I suppose I will probably have to fit a double box and add an double pole isolator switch too. It wouldn't be a great idea to use an RCD as an isolator!

The rcd probably would do as the isolator if its just outside the bathroom/shower room. Although id prefer a 20 amp dp switch myself.

Solair

robbie7730 wrote: »

Is it the last MCB on the RCD row?



The rcd probably would do as the isolator if its just outside the bathroom/shower room. Although id prefer a 20 amp dp switch myself.

No, it's the second last one on the row.

Bruthal

Did the other circuits go off when RCD was switched off? Sometimes ye see a nuisance tripping RCD bypassed instead of the problem being fixed.

Or else some MCBs were added after the last RCD controlled one, and just linked to the non RCD busbar.

It should be looked at anyway, to see what way them MCBs are connected.

The MCBs to the right of an RCD also dont necessarily have to be the ones it controls, they could be to the left of it too.

Solair

Checked the others, only the shower was on a non-RCD protected MCB!

It's now fitted with an RCD Fused Connection Unit, fitted with a 3A fuse and a standard MK, 20amp 2 pole isolating switch after the FCU (Double surface mount box)

I didn't think using the RCD as an isolator is a great idea as it would quite likely wear out due to excessive cycling on / off.