Bertie – The Greatest Secondhand Car Salesman in Ireland

paul71

end a eknny wrote: »

look the simple thing is that goverments are short sighted (unfortynately they would not be there if they wernt) and they will pander to everybody and everything. a lot of the problem is probably with the civil servants who are the only constant and they probably arent up to the job (but their position is not under threat )

So you admit mistakes were made. As regards civil servants it has been well documented that senior civil servants were repeatidly ignored when urging caution about putting all the eggs in one basket by incentivising property development.

If I am to be fair then FG did not raise enough of an objection to the policies between 2002 and 2008, but the responibility for those actions does not ultimately rest with FG or civil servents, it rests squarely with FF and the only equitable result of their destruction of the Irish economy is the parties own destruction.

end a eknny

paul71 wrote: »

So you admit mistakes were made. As regards civil servants it has been well documented that senior civil servants were repeatidly ignored when urging caution about putting all the eggs in one basket by incentivising property development.

If I am to be fair then FG did not raise enough of an objection to the policies between 2002 and 2008, but the responibility for those actions does not ultimately rest with FG or civil servents, it rests squarely with FF and the only equitable result of their destruction of the Irish economy is the parties own destruction.

but if f.f didnt continue these policies they wouldnt be there and f.g would have. plus the money was rolling in and so its very hard to stop

ninty9er

rockmongrel wrote: »

So, no, I didn't vote for him and neither did anyone in my family except one grandparent.

Unless you were in the ballot box with them you have no way of knowing which candidates they voted for and in what order. Remember preferences elect people too.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Unless you were in the ballot box with them you have no way of knowing which candidates they voted for and in what order. Remember preferences elect people too.

Which is precisely why I didn't even give FF a single preference.

I also doubt that anyone prepared to vote for Ahern would value my friendship enough to lie to me about their choice.

Merch

x in the city wrote: »

all the idiots in leinster, thats who voted.

Ridiculous, all the idiots all over that voted FF surely

raymon wrote: »

All caused by FF traitors

I agree more with this, FF looks out for FF, FF should have been and were expected to do the right thing for the country, but they only lined their own pockets and kept their mates in good stead.

No I didnt nor ever have voted FF


What kind of democracy do we have actually? a lot of people voted FF, maybe because of greed, personal interest, family loyalty?
But only a small group in north central? dublin voted for that scheming git bertie.

I never wanted FF in, never believed a lie word out of them, I never wanted Bertie as Taoiseach, he was picked by FF, is that actually democracy??? guess its our system, that the majority of people were fooled/greedy/self serving enough to vote FF in.

As I said to someone in 2007, its time to change, answer was, ohh no, I dont want things to change, "Im happy how they are, need to keep it going" as if they really believed FF had our best interests at heart/could possibly have stopped what would unfold at that stage but were still lying to us and lining their own pockets by hanging on.
I only feel guilty that I could not convince other people to vote at all or to not vote FF.
FF and even now FG would prefer we stay ignorant and busy with day to day struggles, keeps our eyes off them if we were then busy managing to do a job and run a family or exist now if we dont.

paul71

end a eknny wrote: »

but if f.f didnt continue these policies they wouldnt be there and f.g would have. plus the money was rolling in and so its very hard to stop

That is pure speculation and does not absolve FF of the responsibilty for or the consequences of their actions which appears to be the justifiable death of the party.

Godge

end a eknny wrote: »

but if f.f didnt continue these policies they wouldnt be there and f.g would have. plus the money was rolling in and so its very hard to stop

Correct, and the disastorous decisions of September 2008 wouldn't have been taken. I am so glad that you finally realise that FF were the problem, that if they hadn't continued their policies, someone else would have been in and this country would have been saved. It was the false promises of McCreevy, Ahern and Cowen that the boom could only get boomier that deceived the Irish people. Unfortunately, not enough like me saw through them.

MidlandsM

rockmongrel wrote: »

J

Fúck you Bertie Ahern, fúck you.

Bravo!

I'll second that...........and mods, you can ban me good-o too:) !

AlekSmart

Wicknight wrote: »

The point is that the country is now washing their hands of FF as if they were some how tricked or mislead by them.

They weren't. FF did exactly what it said on the tin. ....

"FF lied to us" has turned into the scape goat answer for FF supporters when in reality they were just a representation of the stupidity of this country in general. If people are prepared to vote for populist nonsense they will end up with a bunch of monkeys running the country, and that is exactly what we got.

The reality,unpleasant as it sounds is that "FF told us what we wanted to hear".

Lets face it a good number of savvy Irish had more than a sneaking regard for Margaret Thatchers policies which resulted in all those Council Tenants buying "their own place" at knockdown rates or of the Irish buying up half of London Town.

Suddenly it all appeared possible,and few wanted to believe otherwise.

thebman

A lot of the reality is the media were pushing the property agenda too and not giving the whole story to the public on the back of record property advertising in the print media.

RTE were obviously just saying whatever the state wanted them to.

Newspapers in general have been dying for the past 5-10 years with people getting their news online rather than buying newspapers and this was a great way for the Irish print media to keep themselves ticking over nicely during that period.

Basically overall just too many people with invested interest in inflating the bubble and a lack of a willingness to do the right thing by a lot of companies, state agencies and politicians at the time.

However it was the politicians orchestrating the whole affair, if they had pulled the brakes, it would have slowed down but they didn't and Bertie was top of the bunch in the political arena.

As for who voted for Bertie, only his constituency could vote for him. Most other people were voting for the best candidate for their area in a broken political system that needs reform.