Console Ban 3-9-11 (Mod Warning Post #755)

NORTH1

WALSHY16291 wrote: »

From the Xbox LIVE terms of use,
"You must not use the service to harm others or the service.For example you must not:

resell or distribute any part of the service or access to the service"

This is found here http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/Legal/LiveTOU

and

"Consoles can be suspended from Xbox LIVE for a number of reasons including, but not limited to:

Console tampering: Physically opening the Xbox and modifying it to play illegitimate software.
Online fraud: Attempting to social engineer users, take over Xbox LIVE accounts, or other fraudulent activities.
Repeat egregious violations: Multiple actions taken on accounts on the console by the Enforcement team for disrupting the service or impacting users.

and this was found here http://support.xbox.com/en-us/xbox-live/troubleshoot/xbox-live-console-ban.

In this case I genuinely believe the OP was not trying to resell or redistribute a Xbox Live service for free but you can't argue that "Free Xbox LIVE" in your motto can be seen to be offer nothing other than "free" LIVE in an attempt to scam others.

It is a harsh ban, especially when you didn't realise what you had done and MS wouldn't tell you the reason they banned you.

However there are no warnings or time (and rightly so) to let you change your motto-How can they tell the difference between you(of genuine intent) and a person who has succesfully scammed for MSP etc with the same motto and got away with it in the past leading them to be found out and to let them change their motto or face a console ban?
MS will make you pay for this! They just ban you and that's that-they know Terms of use, no matter how minute, have been broken. Sorry OP!

Yet the xbox support forum is full of you are banned for having this in your tag and that in your tag and I believe they even e-mail the accounts about the bans.

Most people must have though the were giving out free Nelson Mandela's when Jerry Dammers wrote the song "Free Nelson Mandela".

I have just checked under the face plate and the seals are inplace

I am finding the MS supporters are getting more aggressive and personal in their reply

I did not start this, It is not about my ego, It is about a company thinking it can steam roll me, and me standing up for my rights.

adrian522

Garys Xbox wrote: »

Either way. If it was a problem with Motto they would have asked you to do something about it by sending an E-mail to you. If you did'nt do anything about your motto they would issue a temp ban to get your attention. A perma ban is only issued if they look at your messages between you and anyone else to see if you are doing anything dodgy or they witness you using an exploit in a game or a mod and so on. They wouldn't just pull the name out of a hat and perma ban it. They investigate the gamertag over a period of time.

I agree with this a console ban for this is way OTT and completely ineffective if they didn't also issue an account ban.

My main issue with all of this is the refusal to state why banned the OP. If that happened to me I would be livid.

Dravokivich

Solair wrote: »

The reality is that they are subject to Irish and European consumer protection legislation and no amount of T&Cs can get them out of that one.

Their T&Cs acknowledges the jurisdiction of the residents country. So they'd be liable to our laws.

.E_C_K_S.

Garys Xbox wrote: »

Either way. If it was a problem with Motto they would have asked you to do something about it by sending an E-mail to you. If you did'nt do anything about your motto they would issue a temp ban to get your attention.

Why should they? A person who could made potentially thousands of MSP's is just allowed to change their motto without consequences and continue on LIVE as if nothing happened?

Garys Xbox wrote: »

A perma ban is only issued if they look at your messages between you and anyone else to see if you are doing anything dodgy or they witness you using an exploit in a game or a mod and so on. They wouldn't just pull the name out of a hat and perma ban it. They investigate the gamertag over a period of time.

Are they allowed to look at your messages? I know it is their service but isn't it a breach of privacy? I could be wrong. Also I doubt it's investigated over a period of time(if you mean days or weeks). I would think that they notice flagged content on your account and take action there and then.

NORTH1

WALSHY16291 wrote: »

Maybe it's the potential to offer such a scam, regardless of how many times he has done it is enough for MS to ban straight away. A console ban just for bad wording. It's an expensive lesson!

More speculation.

I have also noticed that there still as been no change in forum 14 on xbox forums, and a hell of a lot more posts on the xbox live connect issues.

Is it possible the Microsoft has made a big mistake?

There support team is very quite over there

RangeR

Dravokivich wrote: »

Their T&Cs acknowledges the jurisdiction of the residents country. So they'd be liable to our laws.

To be pedantic, they would be liable to our laws regardless of what their T's & C's said.

Fireborn

adrian522 wrote: »

Yes but saying something in your motto isn't the same as doing it.

MS obviously misunderstood what the motto was about(if this is what the ban was for, which we don't know because Microsoft won't say). What we may have here is a mistake.

What happened to all the proof Microsoft would require or is the motto now considered to be proof enough by the enforcement team doing such a magnificent job?

Given your attitude I'd say they're doing a magnificent job keeping you off the servers.

Regardless:

Saying or doing, it doesnt matter. Assuming the motto is the reason (which I doubt is the only reason) Then the mistake is on your behalve for posting something that can be taken either way.

NORTH1

WALSHY16291 wrote: »

Why should they? A person who could made potentially thousands of MSP's is just allowed to change their motto without consequences and continue on LIVE as if nothing happened?


Are they allowed to look at your messages? I know it is their service but isn't it a breach of privacy? I could be wrong. Also I doubt it's investigated over a period of time(if you mean days or weeks). I would think that they notice flagged content on your account and take action there and then.

This is just ridiculous and hardly needs a reply but I will give you one anyway.

They may not be able to see my e-mails but surely they would be able see my MS points jumping up and down!?!

Lets stick to what he know and that MS have the answers and they are going to make me drag this all the way to the courts for a answer by the looks of it.

I'm sure the courts will be impressed.

faceman

Garys Xbox wrote: »

They provide a service to you. If you don't take the piss out of it everything runs fine. Its not a democracy. Your rights strech as far as the ToS and CoC.

Actually your rights stretch as far as statutory and consumer rights and ToS and CoC don't supersede that.

XG4M3M45T3RX

adrian522 wrote: »

I agree with this a console ban for this is way OTT and completely ineffective if they didn't also issue an account ban.

My main issue with all of this is the refusal to state why banned the OP. If that happened to me I would be livid.

This Conversation is going nowhere in a hurry...

At the end of day there was a blatant disregard for XBox policey somewhere along the lines and the banning of either the console or the Tag is a result of this. XBox do not Ban lightly and are well within there legal rights to inforce the terms of use within the service and are also not obliged in any, way shape or form to provide any ''evidence'' for the ban, you were warned before the ban took place.

I have owned an XBox for 4 years, never banned, never suspended because i dont break the T's + C's.

FutureGuy

This thread is so close to being locked and multiple people are close to receiving a 1-week ban. I've lost patience. Having both mods of a forum watching what everyone is writing on a single thread is not a great place to be spouting personal insults.

Anything posted below this message that we deem to have even the slightest hint of personal abuse, 1 week ban.

Meesared

NORTH1 wrote: »

This is just ridiculous and hardly needs a reply but I will give you one anyway.

They may not be able to see my e-mails but surely they would be able see my MS points jumping up and down!?!

Lets stick to what he know and that MS have the answers and they are going to make me drag this all the way to the courts for a answer by the looks of it.

I'm sure the courts will be impressed.

All the while you could probably buy 20+ consoles with the legal costs...

Fireborn

NORTH1 wrote: »

This is just ridiculous and hardly needs a reply but I will give you one anyway.

They may not be able to see my e-mails but surely they would be able see my MS points jumping up and down!?!

Lets stick to what he know and that MS have the answers and they are going to make me drag this all the way to the courts for a answer by the looks of it.

I'm sure the courts will be impressed.

Yeah, they'll take one look at the T+C's and how you broke them and throw you out probably.

Its ok im sure the courts get plenty of chancers trying their arm to get money out of Microsoft for their own mistake.

I'd be surprised if there isnt a bunk bed setup for the MS representative.

hightower1

Ahhh FFS, lads. Guys from MS can ye just please please please pull some strings and post up why he was console banned to the finger pointing and lughing can begin already! I've had enough of the foreplay now, the set up is complete!

Garys Xbox

faceman wrote: »

Actually your rights stretch as far as statutory and consumer rights and ToS and CoC don't supersede that.

Really? Didn't know that. Would all countrys have the same consumer rights or are the ToS and CoC based around American consumer rights?

As for MS reading your messages i read the fourms (14-Account Suspensions) and the XBLET are always giving reasons for Perma and Temp bans. I also enjoy Whywasibanned.com and long walks on the beach but thats for a different thread.

Princess Zelda

Another thing it may be OP, which has not been mentioned yet, is that if you entered a modified lobby at all, which would possibly modify data on your hard drive. If you ever or your son ever played COD, did either of you notice you were in-game with anything strange going on i.e. people flying around the map?

Helix

adrian522 wrote: »

Perhaps they are but they are required to release any information they have stored on you.

correct

however the only information they have stored about this guy here is his name, address, credit card information, purchase history and gamertag id

the console has been banned, not him. so unless he is actually the console, he has no rights to any of the information they have about it

.E_C_K_S.

NORTH1 wrote: »

More speculation.

I have also noticed that there still as been no change in forum 14 on xbox forums, and a hell of a lot more posts on the xbox live connect issues.

Is it possible the Microsoft has made a big mistake?

There support team is very quite over there

I believe that the potential to offer such a service compared to a person fully scamming others already is no different in MS eyes and hence the ban.

If you were to receive a code off someone over LIVE what stops you from selling it to one of your neighbours or friends for money?

I wish you luck with the case OP but I think nothing will come of it!

NORTH1

XG4M3M45T3RX wrote: »

This Conversation is going nowhere in a hurry...

At the end of day there was a blatant disregard for XBox policey somewhere along the lines and the banning of either the console or the Tag is a result of this. XBox do not Ban lightly and are well within there legal rights to inforce the terms of use within the service and are also not obliged in any, way shape or form to provide any ''evidence'' for the ban, you were warned before the ban took place.

I have owned an XBox for 4 years, never banned, never suspended because i dont break the T's + C's.

And who are you one poster?

Is this pointed at me or where you banned?

Cause I have owned xboxs for more then seven years and never had a problem before last Saturday. And believe or not I didn't break the Terms either.

adrian522

Fireborn wrote: »

Given your attitude I'd say they're doing a magnificent job keeping you off the servers.

Regardless:

Saying or doing, it doesnt matter. Assuming the motto is the reason (which I doubt is the only reason) Then the mistake is on your behalve for posting something that can be taken either way.

I haven't been banned, I just think this is a crazy policy for them to have.

Well firstly it wasn't me who had that in his motto and secondly I don't think a ban is acceptable because support staff misread a tagline. That's just silly.

chopperbyrne

hightower1 wrote: »

Ahhh FFS, lads. Guys from MS can ye just please please please pull some strings and post up why he was console banned to the finger pointing and lughing can begin already! I've had enough of the foreplay now, the set up is complete!

Nobody in support has access to that information and even if they did, I doubt they'd risk their job just to spite one guy on an internet forum.

Asry

Princess Zelda wrote: »

Another thing it may be OP, which has not been mentioned yet, is that if you entered a modified lobby at all, which would possibly modify data on your hard drive. If you ever or your son ever played COD, did either of you notice you were in-game with anything strange going on i.e. people flying around the map?

That's true, in fairness. Sometimes it could be through nothing you've done yourself really, apart from fraternising with modders. That kind of thing changes the software on the HDD like, and will kind of mess you up like.

KerranJast

Garys Xbox wrote: »

Really? Didn't know that. Would all countrys have the same consumer rights or are the ToS and CoC based around American consumer rights?

AFAIK T&Cs are modified to fit and adhere to the consumer laws of the territories the product is used in. The XBox T&Cs in the US adhere to Federal norms there and the EU T&Cs fall under EU consumer law here.

adrian522

Helix wrote: »

correct

however the only information they have stored about this guy here is his name, address, credit card information, purchase history and gamertag id

the console has been banned, not him. so unless he is actually the console, he has no rights to any of the information they have about it

I'd disagree with this, they would need to store an account profile containing a lot more than what you have listed there. The console is linked to the user and they must surely keep a record of why they are handing out these bans.

KerranJast

adrian522 wrote: »

I'd disagree with this, they would need to store an account profile containing a lot more than what you have listed there. The console is linked to the user and they must surely keep a record of why they are handing out these bans.

Gamertags are independent of the console I thought. Your DLC is linked to your Gamertag so you can move that between consoles therefore suggesting its independent of the hardware.

KERSPLAT!

adrian522 wrote: »

I'd disagree with this, they would need to store an account profile containing a lot more than what you have listed there. The console is linked to the user and they must surely keep a record of why they are handing out these bans.

I agree,

Anything linked to the customer I.e the console is covered under the DPA. Surely the console, GT, Name, CC details are all linked somehow

Garys Xbox

NORTH1 wrote: »

And who are you one poster?

Is this pointed at me or where you banned?

Cause I have owned xboxs for more then seven years and never had a problem before last Saturday. And believe or not I didn't break the Terms either.

Is the console second hand? Sorry i remember you saying it was new.

Helix

adrian522 wrote: »

I'd disagree with this, they would need to store an account profile containing a lot more than what you have listed there. The console is linked to the user and they must surely keep a record of why they are handing out these bans.

but the record of the ban will refer to the console, not to the user

the user account has not been banned, the console serial number and mac address has been banned

TheMooseInNam

Varik wrote: »

Can a mod just lock this already, the op has a thread on the consumer issues forum and is probably going the small claims route which would make that forum more applicable.

There's no point in having both threads going when it's degraded into people acting like dicks.

CORaven wrote: »

I disagree on the lock. OP has not requested it and many, myself included, would like to know the outcome of this.

I'm not locking this thread, I believe it has every right to be on this forum and made available for members to post on.

The outcome of this thread is of genuine interest to any who has a console connected to the XBL service.

Not to mention the fact that it has some great entertainment value... a bit like watching a car crash in slow motion

Let's try and keep this thread on track though. Let's recap:

1. The OP informed us that his console received a ban, not his gamertag. (I would like this confirmed, again)

2. The OP owns two consoles and shares two XBL full memberships between the consoles, on the same home network.

3. All DLC has been paid for and no illegal downloads took place.

4. His son hasn't been involved in anything that may result in the console getting banned, the jury is out on this one and either his son is a first class liar with brass balls or perfectly innocent. However, without a polygraph or MS's clarification, this can't be proved either way. So let's move on.

5. The OP has repeatedly posted on the Xbox forum as to why he has received a console ban but MS has yet to inform him of the exact reason(s) yet.

6. The recent ban wave for Marketplace Theft only focused on gamertag bans, so this doesn't explain the console ban.

7. It has come to light that the OP had "FREE XBOX LIVE" clearly stated in his gamertag's motto. However, assumptions are being made that this is definitely the reason why the console was banned, which is not true. At the moment, this is the best possible reason proposed from the information we have received.

8. It's become obvious that two distinct sides are emerging, those opposed to MS and those in favour of MS. However, this shouldn't be the case, remember the following:

A. MS are providing an excellent service through XBL and the general consenus is that bans are justified and keep the system fair by removing piracy, modding, cheating and hacking.

B. This seems to be an isolated incident. The OP claims his innocence and his family members innocence, however, MS's Policy Enforcement Team don't issue bans without a documented paper trail.

C. The issue here is not whether MS are good or bad, provide a good service or not, should be free or a paid service, the issue here is whether or not MS will inform the OP of the reason to the console ban. All other issues are purely based on speculation and tarnished with personal opinions.

So, in order to resolve this entire thread, we only need one thing "What has MS found out in order to justify the console ban?" Once we've established that, then we can pursue the notion of whether it's justified or unjustified, a mistake human error or another good decision by the Policy Enforcement Team.

I'm sorry if this post is a little long but I think it's time everyone started focusing on the real question here.

pH

NORTH1 wrote: »

And who are you one poster?

Is this pointed at me or where you banned?

Cause I have owned xboxs for more then seven years and never had a problem before last Saturday. And believe or not I didn't break the Terms either.

Have you removed the faceplate and made 100% sure that the warranty seal is in place?