Console Ban 3-9-11 (Mod Warning Post #755)

Shammy

NORTH1 wrote: »

Unbanned and back in action.

Well done , i have to say when this thread first started i had my suspicions that your console was modded in some form or other , but as the thread grew and you ruled out the obvious reasons i began to believe you.

Congratulations on standing your ground and getting to the bottom of this and coming out on top .

gizmo

faceman wrote: »

To newcomers to the thread, it summarises like this:

* OP was console banned for reasons unknown to him
* MS fanboys said he deserved it, even though they didnt know why he was banned
* OP continues to plead innocence and perseveres chasing MS for an explanation
* MS fanboys tells him to suck it up, MS NEVER gets it wrong.
* MS erases Windows Vista and RROD memories from fanboys head
* MS gets it wrong, banning people in error. The OP was affected
* OP rejoices
* MS fanboys refuse to eat humble pie and insist they never said what they originally said in the first place
* OP buys a PS3 (*)




(*) may not be true but makes for a funnier ending

You left out an important part:

* Users with no understanding of the technical implications of MS informing people why they were banned and/or those who gave no consideration to the hundreds of thousands of people who routinely whine to MS about being innocent despite being guilty as sin (either knowingly or unknowingly) come on-thread and call everyone who doesn't fall over offering their deepest sympathies to the OP as "MS fanboys".

:rolleyes:

CramCycle

gizmo wrote: »

You left out an important part:

* Users with no understanding of the technical implications of MS informing people why they were banned and/or those who gave no consideration to the hundreds of thousands of people who routinely whine to MS about being innocent despite being guilty as sin (either knowingly or unknowingly) come on-thread and call everyone who doesn't fall over offering their deepest sympathies to the OP as "MS fanboys".

:rolleyes:

Also forgot to mention that if a reason were given it would not have to include tremendously specific details therefore saving MS alot of that whinging (guilty parties would know why they were caught) and also not giving anything obvious about how they were caught to modders.

FutureGuy

I think MooseinNam has done an excellent job moderating this thread, but just want to step in while he is away from the PC.

There's been alot of cattiness this morning and I'm going to let Moose take a look at it when he gets back. No more personal insults from this point onward. Personal insults after this post will incur a 1-week ban. This includes snide remarks.

Please keep things on topic.

gizmo

CramCycle wrote: »

Also forgot to mention that if a reason were given it would not have to include tremendously specific details therefore saving MS alot of that whinging (guilty parties would know why they were caught) and also not giving anything obvious about how they were caught to modders.

If you look at the last banwave and the public reaction of the modders, it's quite clear any information is too much. Last time no one knew what had caused it which meant the first thing everyone did was stay offline until a cause could be identified and a fix rolled out. In cases like this anything from "DVD drive modification" to "Detection of pirated games" would be enough to help them with their circumvention work.

Zab

gizmo wrote: »

You left out an important part:

* Users with no understanding of the technical implications of MS informing people why they were banned and/or those who gave no consideration to the hundreds of thousands of people who routinely whine to MS about being innocent despite being guilty as sin (either knowingly or unknowingly) come on-thread and call everyone who doesn't fall over offering their deepest sympathies to the OP as "MS fanboys".

:rolleyes:

It amazes me that MS manage to charge a subscription for online play, implement draconian measures to ensure people can't run unauthorized software or hardware, which is almost purely to do with MS's interests rather than the user's, and still get intelligent people to defend them as if they're doing it all for the greater good. They're clearly playing their marketing cards very well.

Draupnir

gizmo wrote: »

If you look at the last banwave and the public reaction of the modders, it's quite clear any information is too much. Last time no one knew what had caused it which meant the first thing everyone did was stay offline until a cause could be identified and a fix rolled out. In cases like this anything from "DVD drive modification" to "Detection of pirated games" would be enough to help them with their circumvention work.

I think that's all well and good, but there needs to be transparency in at least allowing users to query directly on the telephone or launch a proper investigation. The ban shouldn't be applied with absolutely no recourse to get it reviewed.

As another poster said, banning someone and saying "we know you did something wrong" is a very serious allegation.

I think that North1 could probably answer this for me, if you'd had an email saying that something had been detected that could be a bannable offense on your Xbox and inviting you to contact someone to discuss having that cleared up, would that have been a better situation all round for almost everyone concerned?

Meesared

Zab wrote: »

It amazes me that MS manage to charge a subscription for online play, implement draconian measures to ensure people can't run unauthorized software or hardware, which is almost purely to do with MS's interests rather than the user's, and still get intelligent people to defend them as if they're doing it all for the greater good. They're clearly playing their marketing cards very well.

I dont think this thread is about the validity of charging for Live...

gizmo

Zab wrote: »

It amazes me that MS manage to charge a subscription for online play, implement draconian measures to ensure people can't run unauthorized software or hardware, which is almost purely to do with MS's interests rather than the user's, and still get intelligent people to defend them as if they're doing it all for the greater good. They're clearly playing their marketing cards very well.

Well, thanks for referring to me as intelligent at least.

I do, of course, disagree with what you're saying though. I'm not going to get dragged into the subscription for Live issue since I think that's pretty irrelevant in this debate, but it's the latter point I take issue with. Of course it's in MS' best interests to combat piracy on their console but it is also there to combat cheating and hacking. For instance, if you look at the Bans Forum you'll see a slew of people banned for modded lobbies and games in the CoD series. I really don't see how you can see MS trying to avoid this as anything other than wholly beneficial for the end user?

Draupnir wrote: »

I think that's all well and good, but there needs to be transparency in at least allowing users to query directly on the telephone or launch a proper investigation. The ban shouldn't be applied with absolutely no recourse to get it reviewed.

There's nothing to stop people who were legitimately banned and who know it from doing this and just passing on said information to other modders though. Again, look at the Ban Forums, there's loads of people there who are blatently lying to Support and who know full well they were banned legitimately trying to get the ban overturned. Again these are account bans so they're classed as less severe but the logic is the same, albeit in a more serious case, for console bans.

As I said in a previous post, I'd love to see the policy be more accomodating to people but I just can't see how it can be done without playing into the hands of those who are out to cheat, hack and steal as much as they can without consideration for anyone but themselves.

Zab

gizmo wrote: »

I do, of course, disagree with what you're saying though. I'm not going to get dragged into the subscription for Live issue since I think that's pretty irrelevant in this debate, but it's the latter point I take issue with. Of course it's in MS' best interests to combat piracy on their console but it is also there to combat cheating and hacking. For instance, if you look at the Bans Forum you'll see a slew of people banned for modded lobbies and games in the CoD series. I really don't see how you can see MS trying to avoid this as anything other than wholly beneficial for the end user?

We're talking about console bans not Live account bans. These aren't for cheating in games, it appears that they're for modding consoles or possibly for marketplace theft (I read this, I'm not 100% though). Either way these both protect MS's bottom line and aren't in the interest of the end user.

Meesared

Zab wrote: »

We're talking about console bans not Live account bans. These aren't for cheating in games, it appears that they're for modding consoles or possibly for marketplace theft (I read this, I'm not 100% though). Either way these both protect MS's bottom line and aren't in the interest of the end user.

Yes they are as system modding lets you run modified games (Hacked lobbies)

bigneacy

Been following this thread from the beginning, but made the decision not to get involved (mostly due to the outstanding bitchiness) :eek:

Fair play to the OP. If you hadn't of stuck it out and keep at them it probably would have been never discovered there was a major flaw in their software - and if/when it was discovered it may have just been swept under the carpet.

Hope those guys on that other forum that closed your thread see the error of their ways but by the looks of their earlier comments I doubt they'll ever admit they were in the wrong.

MS Fanboys (yes, that is what you are - if you think you're not, you definetly are!!) Suck it up - you were wrong, just admit it.

FutureGuy

bigneacy wrote: »

MS Fanboys (yes, that is what you are - if you think you're not, you definetly are!!) Suck it up - you were wrong, just admit it.

This morning, I politely asked all potsers to refrain from insults and snide remarks as the thread was starting to get derailed. I made it very clear that there will be a 1-week ban for anyone who ignores this.

bigneacy, calling people fanboys is exactly what will cause another round of off topic posting. 1 week ban from xbox forums.

Anyone else want to post something derogatory?

Angry Mom

No offence taken Meesard because I'm British, born in Norwich, England, though even if I was American I fail to understand "the no offence" comment. No offence because Americans have rights and stand up for them?? Anyways, I have been living in the States for 6 years but last I heard the Britts, Scotts and Irish all live in free nations too. Has that changed recently, has the government been overthrown? No offence but I'm not really understanding why it matters which side of the pond you are living on when it comes to protecting your fundamrntal rights.

Meesared

Angry Mom wrote: »

No offence Meesard but I'm British, born in Norwich, England. I have been living in the States for 6 years and last I heard England was a free nation too so what unless you are living in an oppressed nation I'm not really understanding why it matters which side of the pond your on when it comes to protecting your fundamrntal rights.

No sense of humour?

Why are people taking everything so badly here, I dont get it

thegoth

I read the start of this, but there is so much to read. How was the issue resolved ? Are you still banned ?

Meesared

thegoth wrote: »

I read the start of this, but there is so much to read. How was the issue resolved ? Are you still banned ?

He got unbanned

Vicxas

He got unbanned, and fair play. At least MS unbanned him.

Angry Mom

Meesard, what isn't funny for those of us that were accused of criminal activity, denied due process of the Law and called thieves and liars is that we were accused of criminal activity denied due process of the Law and called thieves and liars. Get it? Sorry if we fail to see the humor in that? Microsoft admitted fault and is trying to make ammends, awesome, but what about the next time the ban wave hits or another similar circumstance? That's what concerns me, are they going to handle things differently or do they think flicking on the unban switch, 3 months of Live and a few points is all that needs to be done? The more rope we give these multibillion companies the more they will take, by kicking up a storm so to speak we are trying to shorten that rope, we just want an even game of tug of war without all the big kids on one side.

Meesared

Oh really cheer up, You got banned wrongly, yes that sucks, but you got compensated handsomely for it. MS admitted the mistake and Im sure they dont want to undermine the bans and suspensions system further, so I would be extremely surprised to see this happen again.

Oh and a few points? €40 worth of stuff isnt to be sniffed at.

Its done, get over it.

thegoth

How did you manage to get them to over turn their decision. I would love if you had some time to write a brief summary of the events. I am VERY interested

Angry Mom

Meesared wrote: »

Oh really cheer up, You got banned wrongly, yes that sucks, but you got compensated handsomely for it. MS admitted the mistake and Im sure they dont want to undermine the bans and suspensions system further, so I would be extremely surprised to see this happen again.

Oh and a few points? €40 worth of stuff isnt to be sniffed at.

Its done, get over it.

I am perfectly cheerful thank you and FYI being rewarded "handsomely" does not change policies, when that happens I'll be "over it".

chopperbyrne

I highly doubt anyone in Microsoft called you a thief or a liar or accused you of criminal activity.

More likely you were told they have no information about why your console was banned and here is a link to a statement about console bans which lists some of the reasons.

NORTH1

I just want to clear up one point before i go onto my second point.

Since the middle of last week I have been happy with the communications I have received from Microsoft and the conversation I had with them on Monday where they assured me that the affair of th last three weeks are still been investigated, I have received the email apologizing for the treatment over that time and the confirmation of the liv extension and ms points, though they are not on my account as yet. I'm happy with this.

Now It annoys me when you have people coming on here and telling me that the hours I spent after work during lunch breaks and on down time trying to figure out where Microsoft went wrong over the last three weeks is all made good by a 40 euro payment.

I'm not sure what your hourly rate is but that is insulting to me and doe anger me. This anger is not directed at Microsoft just the attitude of some of the post here!

Helix

thegoth wrote: »

How did you manage to get them to over turn their decision. I would love if you had some time to write a brief summary of the events. I am VERY interested

in a nutshell; MS announced they had mistakenly been banning consoles. they then unbanned those consoles

Angry Mom

Really Chopperbyrne, would you like to subpoena the phone conversations? I was told "content was obtained by illegitimate means", a fancy way of saying thief, I was told there was "overwhelming evidence" that we were playing pirated game discs, illegal activity. When I told them that everything in our home was 100% legitimate and offered to send it to them for verification I was told and I quote "it's not worth it", because of the "overwhelming evidence", thats calling me a liar. You can put your doubts to rest. And I agree with North1, since Microsoft have admitted error they have been handling the situation quite well but the nasty bunch out there who are trolling the internet looking for ways to aggravate people, not so much.

Meesared

thegoth wrote: »

How did you manage to get them to over turn their decision. I would love if you had some time to write a brief summary of the events. I am VERY interested

Basically they didnt do anything themselves, the volume of complaints forced MS to look at the bans again.

Angry Mom wrote: »

I am perfectly cheerful thank you and FYI being rewarded "handsomely" does not change policies, when that happens I'll be "over it".

What policies do you want changed?

NORTH1 wrote: »

I just want to clear up one point before i go onto my second point.

Since the middle of last week I have been happy with the communications I have received from Microsoft and the conversation I had with them on Monday where they assured me that the affair of th last three weeks are still been investigated, I have received the email apologizing for the treatment over that time and the confirmation of the liv extension and ms points, though they are not on my account as yet. I'm happy with this.

Now It annoys me when you have people coming on here and telling me that the hours I spent after work during lunch breaks and on down time trying to figure out where Microsoft went wrong over the last three weeks is all made good by a 40 euro payment.

I'm not sure what your hourly rate is but that is insulting to me and doe anger me. This anger is not directed at Microsoft just the attitude of some of the post here!

Your attitude annoys me.

Angry Mom wrote: »

Really Chopperbyrne, would you like to subpoena the phone conversations? I was told "content was obtained by illegitimate means", a fancy way of saying thief, I was told there was "overwhelming evidence" that we were playing pirated game discs, illegal activity. When I told them that everything in our home was 100% legitimate and offered to send it to them for verification I was told and I quote "it's not worth it", because of the "overwhelming evidence", thats calling me a liar. You can put your doubts to rest. And I agree with North1, since Microsoft have admitted error they have been handling the situation quite well but the nasty bunch out there who are trolling the internet looking for ways to aggravate people, not so much.

Not trolling, I just dont like people having attitudes like yours and the OP

Doublechinlolz

This thread was a great read and all and well done to the OP and Angry Mom and everyone else for fighting for your right and proving all the nay sayers wrong.. But this thread has turned to a shambles

Angry Mom

And you're telling me to cheer up? Sorry if you don't like my "attitude" but
"get over it" Meesard.

Policy Changes
1. Console suspension policy needs to come out of hiding, should be available for viewing in the Terms of Use, not hidden in the website somewhere where one has to know of its existance in order to view it.
2. Section 15 of the TOU where customers are asked to agree to the fact that MS is not " fault free", MS needs to either omit that and claim perfection or put an appeals process in place because they have openly admitted that they are not "fault free", anything less would be hypocritical.
3. Policy changes so that whomever is making their public statements is not making blanket claims of criminal activity because they admittedly aren't "fault free" ie users who unlawfully and intentionally obtained content by illegitimate means.
4. If users are going to have consoles banned for piracy, which is illegal, then their accounts need to be banned as well, if not it would be like a cop pulling over a drunk driver taking away his car but letting him drive away in another car because his license remains intact.
5. If it is determined that there may be a breech of the TOU or COC then the parents who are the primary account holders of their childrens associate accounts should be notified the very minute any alleged violations occur via the email that they do have on file for the parent not days, weeks or months later. X Box recommends supervision for children under 13 but I would imagine that it would be more likely the 13-18 year olds would be the ones doing things they shouldn't. If MS is going to market to children and allow use by the associate/primary account system they have in place then they need to have measures in place to protect those children.
6. Changes in communication about customer concerns, sending people to the official X Box forums served no purpose but to aggravate the customers, other gamers and moderators whose only answers were of the cut and paste variety.
7. Communication flow to customer service reps needs to be improved as they were left vulnerable because of lack of information provided to them.
8. Last but not least whatever policy they do or do not have in place for recognizing and admitting fault needs to be reviewed. It is by our mistakes that we learn and grow, it is ok to not be "flawless", nobody is and nobody expects anyone else to be either.

Well, thats a start anyways, I'm sure I could come up with a few more but I've got a meeting to attend so cheerio and have a fabulous day!

Mr. Rager

Read bits and pieces of this thread, clicking on to it every few days. Too much incessant trolling and what not etc but still I'm delighted about the result. Congrats OP, glad to hear the good news, a win for the people.





So....I suppose you wouldn't be interested in a MW2 10th prestige lobby right now, would you? :pac::pac: