Console Ban 3-9-11 (Mod Warning Post #755)

Angry Mom

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Meesared

Meesared

Smartass lol

Angry Mom

Meesared wrote: »

Smartass lol

Sorry, couldn't resist!:p

gizmo

Helix wrote: »

they knew about it LONG before i got in touch with them and long before the 18/19th. they just thought they could flat deny it to the ground in the hope that it didnt snowball

Curious about this, any proof?

Meesared

gizmo wrote: »

Curious about this, any proof?

He doesn't have any, he has some hearsay and conjecture, thats it, nothing real.

NORTH1

gizmo wrote: »

Curious about this, any proof?

Stepto said they stopped using the software on the 9th of september so there should not be any effected consoles after that date!

Why would they do that if they were not aware of a problem?

Varik

NORTH1 wrote: »

gizmo wrote: »

Curious about this, any proof?

Stepto said they stopped using the software on the 9th of september so there should not be any effected consoles after that date!

Why would they do that if they were not aware of a problem?

They found something better regardless of the fault.

Something with cheaper licencing or less man hours required.

Maybe MS isn't 1 big office where everyone knows what everyone else is doing. it takes time for some thing to work it's way down.

Jelle1880

NORTH1 wrote: »

Microsoft were so close to getting away with this!

and I will explain why I think this.

I was asked to stop posting here and in good faith they would look personally into my case. I was in the process of sending the console to them now they told me I was getting special treatment that they could ot give to every customer as they believed there must have been a mistake in my case.
Again they stated this can't be done for every customer and I must not post on here that they were doing this.

Now you can imagine what might have happened if they got there hands on the console, as they knew at this stage banning consoles wrongly.
One of two things.
1 My console had a fault that flagged it as modded and as a courtesy replace it for me if I don't report it.

2 They claim they find some sort of tampering of the console as they have reported previously and they keep the console as evidence and I then have no evidence. I then up the creek without a console.

Microsoft were trying to roll this over and hoping it did a death in the apathy of the majority of users.

Another point made early on in this discussion that the majority of users are probable not the consumer. The majority of consoles are bought by parents or family members as presents and these users would not be aware of their consumer rights.

First of all, Microsoft won't keep your console.
You would get it back with a letter explaining what happened.

As for assuming that Microsoft was hoping this would just go away, what makes you think that ?
I take it some assumption that the big bad corporation would be all too happy to f*ck people over, forcing them to buy a new console (On which the company actually makes a loss, fyi) ?

The amount of consoles banned incorrectly is still very small, compared to the full amount.
Microsoft have admitted that this was due to a fault in their software and have undone the mistake, providing compensation to those affected.
I fail to see what else they can do now.

NORTH1

From here.... Major Nelsons blog

Recently, it was brought to our attention that a number of customers had concerns about the validity of a recent ban of their individual consoles, which they feel had been triggered inaccurately. In this case, the bans were related specifically to modded consoles. I take these claims very seriously, and after an initial investigation we have confirmed that a handful of banned consoles did in-fact appear to not have been modified or tampered with. We’re still conducting our review but the cause appears to be a software issue, not an error on the part of the enforcement team’s normal actions. It’s very specific and occurred between August 29 and September 9, affecting a very small percentage of users.

No mention of cheaper licences in there just a fault that was copped on or about the 9th of September.

Varik wrote: »

They found something better regardless of the fault.

Something with cheaper licencing or less man hours required.

Maybe MS isn't 1 big office where everyone knows what everyone else is doing. it takes time for some thing to work it's way down.

It took fourteen days to get from one section of the company any other pretty bad for a communications company? Do they not have windows live?

NORTH1

Jelle1880 wrote: »

First of all, Microsoft won't keep your console.
You would get it back with a letter explaining what happened.

As for assuming that Microsoft was hoping this would just go away, what makes you think that ?
I take it some assumption that the big bad corporation would be all too happy to f*ck people over, forcing them to buy a new console (On which the company actually makes a loss, fyi) ?

The amount of consoles banned incorrectly is still very small, compared to the full amount.
Microsoft have admitted that this was due to a fault in their software and have undone the mistake, providing compensation to those affected.
I fail to see what else they can do now.

1 They have not been truthful until they where put under pressure by Watch Dog why should I believe they would be truthful when they have my console in their hands.

2 Getting away with it is my experience of the last 4 weeks hoping to shut us up.

3 Handful of effected customers is a relative term I could hold about 20-30 marbles in my hand but I could only really manage one XBL customer.

4 They could explain why after the date they knew they had a problem they were still telling the effected customers to go out and buy a new console....simple really.

Helix

gizmo wrote: »

Curious about this, any proof?

north1 posted what i would have replied

they stopped using the software due to there being a problem on september 9th. they denied that there was any kind of problem as far up as september 15th when they issued me a statement through edelman in seattle. at this point, they clearly knew there was an issue, since they ceased using the software that caused the problem almost a full week prior

no official statement was issued for a further week and a bit, all the while they kept denying there were any problems and their support continued to tell people to buy new xboxes

proof? no. a bit of cop on? yes.

ive worked in this industry long enough to know when someone is covering their arses

Helix

Jelle1880 wrote: »

The amount of consoles banned incorrectly is still very small, compared to the full amount.

it doesnt seem to be as small as MS are letting on though

they wouldnt have overturned the bannings apart from the fact that that game site had their console banned. that was the tipping point here for MS, the point where they had to actually admit there was a problem

Vicxas

Helix wrote: »

it doesnt seem to be as small as MS are letting on though

they wouldnt have overturned the bannings apart from the fact that that game site had their console banned. that was the tipping point here for MS, the point where they had to actually admit there was a problem

Of course they were going to admit it, there was a mistake made, pobody is nerfect. As for microsoft taking consoles in to "tamper" with them, I find it highly unlikely.

Helix

they wouldnt have admitted to it publically unless it had affected a substantial number of people though

if we were talking a couple of hundred, it'd all have been sorted without any need to go public. the fact that they actually came out and talked about means it's more than "a handful"

i agree on the second point, no way ms would actually tamper with it or anything. no chance of that. but they were certainly hoping this would disappear by itself

Meesared

Helix wrote: »

they wouldnt have admitted to it publically unless it had affected a substantial number of people though

if we were talking a couple of hundred, it'd all have been sorted without any need to go public. the fact that they actually came out and talked about means it's more than "a handful"

i agree on the second point, no way ms would actually tamper with it or anything. no chance of that. but they were certainly hoping this would disappear by itself

It would have went public anyway, you think people wouldnt release this news who were affected? And if that did happen would it not seem like it was being kept under wraps and seem more dodgy as a result?

Stop creating conspiricies where there are none.

NORTH1

Meesared wrote: »

It would have went public anyway, you think people wouldnt release this news who were affected? And if that did happen would it not seem like it was being kept under wraps and seem more dodgy as a result?

Stop creating conspiricies where there are none.

This must be directed at Microsoft?

chopperbyrne

The companies that make tin foil must be loving this thread.

Meesared

Id bet!
Is it time this thread was moved into the Conspiracy Theories board?
:rolleyes:

Meesared

NORTH1 wrote: »

This must be directed at Microsoft?

Sorry what?

Helix

Meesared wrote: »

It would have went public anyway, you think people wouldnt release this news who were affected? And if that did happen would it not seem like it was being kept under wraps and seem more dodgy as a result?

Stop creating conspiricies where there are none.

MS spent 3 weeks denying the whole thing until a game site were very vocal about their console being banned. then all of a sudden its undeniable any more. MS created the whole idea that they were never wrong, and people gobbled it up. youve only to look at the reactions north got here. of course MS werent going to say anything about it unless absolutely necessary

NORTH1

Meesared wrote: »

Sorry what?

You are going on like I created this mess!

This is all Microsofts creation not mine even though Microsoft admitted the mistake you guys still think this is my fault for pushing it.

I would not have to interact with you but for Microsofts actions, my life would be a lot happier for not ever knowing you existed. This is Microsoft fault too not mine.

Microsoft created the environment for conspiracy rumours not me and you guys keep bring it up like I invented it. Once again not my fault this is purely Microsofts actions too.

Yet you still don't get it?

The facts are all in this thread.

You honestly feel I and the other who stood up for themselves and should have taken a hit for the good of your employer.

Why should we have done that?

NORTH1

For those of you that didn't see watchdog, I suppose this is shabby journalism too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV78vPgUUYo

I know the video quality is not great but you get the gist...

Meesared

NORTH1 wrote: »

You are going on like I created this mess!

This is all Microsofts creation not mine even though Microsoft admitted the mistake you guys still think this is my fault for pushing it.

I would not have to interact with you but for Microsofts actions, my life would be a lot happier for not ever knowing you existed. This is Microsoft fault too not mine.

Microsoft created the environment for conspiracy rumours not me and you guys keep bring it up like I invented it. Once again not my fault this is purely Microsofts actions too.

Yet you still don't get it?

The facts are all in this thread.

You honestly feel I and the other how stood up for themselves and should have taken a hit for the good of your employer.

Why should we have done that?

I was actually pointing out your post made no sense whatsoever, but look you go play the victim again!

Despite what you think not every post of mine is pointing out your bad attitude.

bryaner

NORTH1 wrote: »

You are going on like I created this mess!

This is all Microsofts creation not mine even though Microsoft admitted the mistake you guys still think this is my fault for pushing it.

I would not have to interact with you but for Microsofts actions, my life would be a lot happier for not ever knowing you existed. This is Microsoft fault too not mine.

Microsoft created the environment for conspiracy rumours not me and you guys keep bring it up like I invented it. Once again not my fault this is purely Microsofts actions too.

Yet you still don't get it?

The facts are all in this thread.

You honestly feel I and the other who stood up for themselves and should have taken a hit for the good of your employer.

Why should we have done that?

Dude I have followed this thread from the start and this is my first post, well done on your extreme hard work, don't pay any attention to anyone thats not paying respect to your tenacity..

Well done fight the power..:D

NORTH1

Meesared wrote: »

I was actually pointing out your post made no sense whatsoever, but look you go play the victim again!

It makes perfect sense to me, you do seem to struggle with the facts, and what makes you think I'm a victim?

A random quote from one of the MS supporters...

Frankly, you're a stranger on the internet, and we have to take your word with a pinch of salt. Look at the ban forums on Xbox.com, and you'll see hundreds of people as determined and convinced as you that they were wronged. 10 days? Yet absolutely no coverage on any major gaming websites, not even a rumour story, nor has there been any word from Microsoft or Xbox Support. *Still waiting for the son to be to blame* I've been monitoring a few social networks over the last few days, and this isn't some widespread ban. I probably found <50 people on Twitter claiming to be wrongfully banned. Now, if you're blaming a COD map pack, the biggest game of the decade, and the top DLC sold on all platforms recently, then this would be a much bigger issue. I've found people who said that they got console banned for Marketplace theft, so you might wanna have another look into that, since it's surely why you got banned

Meesared

NORTH1 wrote: »

This must be directed at Microsoft?

How does this make sense, please tell me?

NORTH1

Note the dates

Robert Warwick (Brook Street) to me
show details Sep 19 (12 days ago)
Dear Mr Boyle,

I look after Escalated Xbox complaints for the European region, the Irish Microsoft team, has brought your complaint to my attention.

The responsibility for dealing with cases of this nature, is my teams, and therefore we have full ownership, I understand you didn’t want to speak to the Escalations team again, sorry that the Irish team cannot help you directly.

Firstly I would like to apologise fully, if your experience with support has been an unsatisfactory one to date, this is never our intention.

We do understand your request to obtain the reason for your console banning, unfortunately our Support and Escalations teams don’t have the specific reasons to provide you with, please see below which offers guidance on banning reasons.
We’ve designed the Xbox LIVE service to help create a place where our members can interact and have fun online. To help protect that experience for our customers, the Xbox LIVE Enforcement team monitors the service for behavior that violates the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use and Code of Conduct. Violations of the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use and the Code of Conduct can result in a variety of actions, up to and including a permanent suspension of a console from connecting to Xbox LIVE. This page details some of the reasons that a console could be permanently suspended from the service.
We take console suspensions seriously, and only take such action after a lengthy investigation by multiple teams. When a console is suspended from accessing the service, it will display the following message:
“This console has been banned for violations of the Terms of Use. To protect the Xbox LIVE service and its members, Microsoft does not provide details about console bans. There is no recourse for Terms of Use violations.”
Consoles can be suspended from Xbox LIVE for a number of reasons including, but not limited to:
· Console tampering: Physically opening the Xbox and modifying it to play illegitimate software.
· Online fraud: Attempting to socially engineer users, take over Xbox LIVE accounts or other fraudulent activities.
· Repeat egregious violations: Multiple actions taken on accounts on the console by the Enforcement team for disrupting the service or impacting users.
Note Customer Support for Xbox LIVE cannot undo an Xbox LIVE suspension for a console. Xbox LIVE console suspensions may also include permanent suspensions of Xbox LIVE accounts as well.
To avoid a console suspension, please review and follow the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use and Code of Conduct. We also recommend that you purchase Xbox 360 consoles new from reputable retail stores because previous owners may have violated the Terms of Use agreement which can lead to the console being suspended. Warranties on Xbox consoles are not transferable from the previous owner.
Everyone on the Xbox and Xbox LIVE teams wants our members to have the best possible experience on our service. By following the Terms of Use and Code of Conduct, you can help us work to create safe and enjoyable experiences while enjoying Xbox LIVE
In order to protect the Xbox Live Service and Xbox Live members, we do not provide specific details about console banning, Microsoft will not ban a console, without over-whelming evidence that it has been used to violate the Code of Conduct or Terms of Use. There is no appeal for a console ban.
I am sorry we are unable to satisfy your request, but myself and my team remain committed to helping you in any other way we can.
Kind regards
Rob Warwick
Xbox Global Escalations Lead - EMEA
Business Consultant to Microsoft Ltd

Microsoft Limited (company number 01624297) is a company registered in England and Wales whose registered office is at Microsoft Campus, Thames Valley Park, Reading. RG6 1WG

From: Jackie Brannigan
Sent: 19 September 2011 11:29
To: Anouska Jayetileke; Sinead Purcell (Intl Agency); Robert Warwick (Brook Street); Mike Priest
Cc: Nora Lawton; Williams, Emma (Emma.Williams@edelman.com); Kieran Penwill; Michael Herrmann (Brook Street)
Subject: RE: Microsoft Xbox live wrongly banning console of its network

Hi guys

I’ve just received a complaint from our GM in relation to the above. I believe the end user has already been on to customer care however he is now escalating this issue via local media including “price watch”. I need to close this down immediately particularly since we are launch Gears of War 3 tonight – and I am expecting media from Today FM and people from boards.ie to attend the event.

I need your assistance on this issue – to close out. Mike / Rob can you please see what transpired with this customer via CS. Anouska/Sinead can you share any prior incidences with us on anything that happened in EMEA. I will set up a call for 2pm today. Nora / Emma can you follow our process on media logs and also check to see what other coverage this is generating locally.

Thanks

Jackie





From: Paul Rellis
Sent: 19 September 2011 10:17
To: Orla Sheridan; Cillian Kennedy
Subject: FW: Microsoft Xbox live wrongly banning console of its network

Can you look at this and see what we need to do?
I haven’t had experience of this before so not sure of guidelines
Thanks
paul

From: xxxxxxxx]
Sent: 16 September 2011 12:56
To: Paul Rellis
Cc: pricewatch
Subject: Microsoft Xbox live wrongly banning console of its network

Hi Paul,

I have an issue that is driving me crazy. On the Saturday the 3rd of September I discovered my Xbox 360 console was banned from access to xbox live network with an on-screen message stating that I had broken the terms and conditions pertaining to console bans. I pay in a in advance each year 60 euros for access to there network which is usually debited from my credit card in December. I have also been a part of this network for seven years without incident.

I checked the terms and conditions on line as it was the first time I had actually looked at them and could not find any terms I could have broken.

Assuming there must have been some mistake I called costumer support and was told that the investigation are very thorough and that mistakes are not made. I then asked them what I did wrong and was told that they do not disclose this information and that there is no recourse for a console banning. I then asked about my account and was told that it was OK and I still has access to that, but I would have to go out and buy a new console of them for 200 euros. Now this annoyed me to say the least. When I put it to them that they had just made a 200 euro piece of equipment useless and would not give me any proof of wrong doing on my part, but said its OK I can just go out and buy a new console, they told me the console is not useless that I can still use it of line.

I didnt accept this answer and asked to speak to a supervisor. I got a call the next day from the supervisor how told me they dont discuss console bans and that there is nothing I can do.

Having checked on-line I discover that around the world a lot of people have been consoled banned and I found out I could lodge a complaint with a company Better Business Bureau or BBB.org.
After a day or so I got an e-mail from saying Microsoft would get in contact with me. I thought happy day this will be sorted. No I got a call from an Irish guy spouting the same stuff as the other two. I told him that I was not accepting I did something wrong and that I would push this to its conclusion.

I have since discovered that these bans pertain to use of pirated disks on the consoles and that the console has to be modified to allow these disks to work, I can assure you that my console has not been modified in anyway and no pirate games have been use on the console. I have offer Microsoft support my console to have it checked put this has been also refused.


I have three xbox 360s in my house at 200+ euros a pop. Of these two work both just over a year old. I have invested in over 70 plus games for the console all at around 40-60 euros over the 7 years of gaming as I don't throw games out. Microsoft is telling me that if I want to continue using the online value of these games I have to buy a new console.

I have linked my thread on Boards.ie where you can get more info and you will see the hostility you get from other gamers assuming you are guilty of cheating or theft

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056377481

It amazes me that Microsoft are so adamant to push me down the legal route when I have the evidence of an open and shut case sitting in my front room and I am sure the courts system will take a dim view that Microsoft is using it to iron out the bugs in its pirating software.

Please do not refer me to the Escalations team as I could not listen to them again.

I will seek independent confirmation that my console has not been tampered with and then seek my full rights.

Unless you can see another way out of this?

Jelle1880

NORTH1 wrote: »

1 They have not been truthful until they where put under pressure by Watch Dog why should I believe they would be truthful when they have my console in their hands.

2 Getting away with it is my experience of the last 4 weeks hoping to shut us up.

3 Handful of effected customers is a relative term I could hold about 20-30 marbles in my hand but I could only really manage one XBL customer.

4 They could explain why after the date they knew they had a problem they were still telling the effected customers to go out and buy a new console....simple really.

1. Erm, no. Watchdog didn't put them under pressure as Watchdog have no way of knowing either the process, or number of affected customers who were banned unfairly. This was Microsoft, and Microsoft alone.

2. How do they 'get away with it' when they admit their mistake ?

3. It's not when it's fact, the problem only occured for a number of consoles in a small space of time (A few days). That's a 'handful'.

4. They weren't, it was the customer support who told you that that was the only way to get gaming again, because they didn't know at that time (And neither did anyone else) that the issue was because of a software problem. No way in hell were you told you HAD to buy a new console, it was just given as an option.

robinph

Jelle1880 wrote: »

1. Erm, no. Watchdog didn't put them under pressure as Watchdog have no way of knowing either the process, or number of affected customers who were banned unfairly. This was Microsoft, and Microsoft alone.

How is Watchdog not putting them under pressure?

Just the hint of a bad news story about a gaming console appearing on prime time BBC TV a couple of months before Christmas is massive pressure. OK, so the console has been out for years now so this year isn't going to be their biggest ever sales, but if there is any time of year they need only good news stories to be appearing then this is it. Note the concern in the emails that North1 pasted above from MS staff worried that this story breaking when it did would mess up their Gears launch press releases.

NORTH1

Jelle1880 wrote: »

1. Erm, no. Watchdog didn't put them under pressure as Watchdog have no way of knowing either the process, or number of affected customers who were banned unfairly. This was Microsoft, and Microsoft alone.

You have to agree Microsoft where not truthful in claiming no consoles were banned wrongful right up to the e-mail I received on the 19th of September yet they knew they had an issue on the 9th as stated by Stephen Himself. Watchdog make contact with them and its followed shortly by Stephens statement admitting fault. Can you denie this? Have I missed anything here?

Jelle1880 wrote: »

2. How do they 'get away with it' when they admit their mistake ?

From the 9th of September to the 23 of September All statements from Microsoft have been There as been no wrongful bans of consoles. That is 13 days of trying to get away with it.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

3. It's not when it's fact, the problem only occured for a number of consoles in a small space of time (A few days). That's a 'handful'.

This has been covered before you have chosen to ignore the facts.

Jelle1880 wrote: »

4. They weren't, it was the customer support who told you that that was the only way to get gaming again, because they didn't know at that time (And neither did anyone else) that the issue was because of a software problem. No way in hell were you told you HAD to buy a new console, it was just given as an option.

Have you watched the video above one customer was told they could get a new console for Christmas how nice of Microsoft. and this had to be after the 9th of September for Watchdog to be involved, Don't you think?

You guys must be brainwashed that you think you can defend the actions of Microsoft between the dates of the 9th of September and the evening of the 23rd of September when they finally released the statement. Their actions were wrong and indefensible yet you keep trying....