Console Ban 3-9-11 (Mod Warning Post #755)

Varik

Can a mod just lock this already, the op has a thread on the consumer issues forum and is probably going the small claims route which would make that forum more applicable.

There's no point in having both threads going when it's degraded into people acting like dicks.

Meesared

Varik wrote: »

Can a mod just lock this already, the op has a thread on the consumer issues forum and is probably going the small claims route which would make that forum more applicable.

There's no point in having both threads going when it's degraded into people acting like dicks.

Id agree, The OP clearly only wants people to back him up and say he's right.

TheMooseInNam

Ok guys,

No more personal abuse, it won't be tolerated.

I enjoy a heated debate as much as the next person but I won't allow members insult or attack each other directly.

Keep it clean, on topic and respectful.

Next time it happens on the thread, I'll be wielding the banhammer

TheMooseInNam

CORaven

I disagree on the lock. OP has not requested it and many, myself included, would like to know the outcome of this.

Ghandee

Meesared wrote: »

Id agree, The OP clearly only wants people to back him up:D and say he's right.

I think what the OP wants its nothing more than MS to tell him what on earth he was banned for.
Someone said earlier that they dont have to tell the OP the reason he was banned. If MS think banning folk without telling them why they got banned in the first place its ok, they're in. for a nasty shock. This is akin to hauling someone off to jail without trial, and not being told why their jailed in the first place.
Methods like these dont work!
Remember internment anyone?:rolleyes:

Healium

NORTH1 wrote: »

Don't call me a Dick please.

I must have missed where they came out and announced they were staff and apologies for that, and in this climate I would even hate to xbox support staff losing their jobs no matter how incompetent they are.

Again sorry for missing that post.

Then don't start acting like one. Pretty much everyone who has posted here has tried to support you. Don't know why today you suddenly have a huge sense of entitlement. Fact of the matter is, you agreed to their terms.

Calling the support staff incompetent is again winning you no fans. The support staff literally cannot tell you why you were banned, so they can't really do anything for you. They'd tell you why if they could, but they simply don't have that information.

I'm not trawling through the thread, because I can't remember how many support staff posted here (think there's 2/3 who post on this forum), but this is from the last page http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74296961&postcount=149

adrian522 wrote: »

I think the attitude of some of the people on here is terrible,

It seems to be like something from "1984".

Well if you got banned you must have done something wrong so therefore you deserved to get banned, so therefore if you got banned you deserved to get banned, because of course Microsoft don't make mistakes.

Microsoft always have proof of course. Its double checked by 2 of their employees. Wonderful that's put my mind at ease, if 2 of these well trained people say he should be banned, then he obviously deserved.

Of course no one has ever seen a case where someone was banned wrongly. I wonder why? A bit hard to prove your innocence when they won't even say what you have been banned for.

Pretty shady practices if you ask me.

I also love the idea that you could get banned for changing your tagline to something like "Free xbox live". Give me a break this is like something you would get out of a police state.

Then you have microsoft employees posting in here not declaring in vested interests, the whole episode leaves a very poor taste in the mouth.

OP I hope you do get to the bottom of this but I wouldn't hold out much hope. I would start with a request under the Data protection act and the FOI act and see if that gets you anywhere.

If not then it looks like you will need to buy a new console. Though not necessarily a microsoft console.

Don't be so dramatic. As you've said, there's never been a public case of a console being wrongfully banned. It's not impossible to find out why you got banned, you just have to be persistent and try and get in contact with the right people i.e. NOT Joe Duffy or the media, because they don't give a damn.

I don't agree with a lot of Microsoft's policies. Then again, the Enforcement team do a great job, so you can be sure that you broke one of their policies if you get banned. No such thing as "If I get enough unwarranted profile complaints, I'll get insta-banned". Everything is checked and double-checked, by humans.

Phishing and credit card fraud is an issue on Xbox LIVE. I'm sure the majority of people, upon seeing that phrase, thought he was giving out free LIVE subscriptions. That's against the terms you agreed to.

As far as I understand, Xbox Support is run by Stream in Dublin, and they're not Microsoft employees. The Xbox Support staff on here have also revealed themselves many times, and will be familiar to regular posters.

EDIT: I'm also about to trawl through the terms of use, if Firefox stops freezing for 5 minutes at a time. New terms are effective Sept. 2011, your likely culprit

gizmo

Ah well, look on the brightside OP, all the money your "friend" saved by downloading those dubious movies can now be put towards the price of a new console

darklighter

Asry wrote: »

Ha, God. Do you really think anyone will get anywhere with Microsoft? One of the biggest companies in the world? Do you not think they're completely watertight covered with data protection acts and privacy policies?

I mean for God's sake. At the end of the day you agreed to T&Cs and the Terms of Use and Code of Conduct.

You broke them and were banned.

Suck it up.

And you know this how???

Garys Xbox

The fact OP has 'Free Xbox Live' in his Motto IS a breach of ToS. It looks as though he is tring to use his profile for financial gain. "No, Money down!"

adrian522

Again this crazy attitude of "here's never been a public case of a console being wrongfully banned"

but

"t's not impossible to find out why you got banned"

all you have to do is

"try and get in contact with the right people"

Who these people are remains a mystery, its certainly not the support staff.

But its all ok because

"the Enforcement team do a great job"

They must have had proof, which they are keeping a secret because

"Everything is checked and double-checked, by humans."

and humans have never made a mistake.

What a wonderful world we live in.

"Phishing and credit card fraud is an issue on Xbox LIVE. I'm sure the majority of people, upon seeing that phrase, thought he was giving out free LIVE subscriptions. That's against the terms you agreed to."

Them thinking he was giving out codes seems to imply they had no proof he was doing it yet banned him anyway, but don't worry it's all ok because

" the Enforcement team do a great job, so you can be sure that you broke one of their policies if you get banned."

adrian522

Garys Xbox wrote: »

The fact OP has 'Free Xbox Live' in his Motto IS a breach of ToS. It looks as though he is tring to use his profile for financial gain. "No, Money down!"

Could you please point what ToS has been broken here?

It looks as though? hardly proof,

pH

North - one thing you should do is removed the faceplate of the console (google for YT videos of this) - this is totally legit as MS sell different faceplates - just be careful and check the warranty sticker on the inner faceplate.

There's another sticker on the DVD drive itself - but to see this you need to open the box itself and if the outer one is intact no point breaking it now to check an inner one!- Take a photo of the sticker as evidence - you could post it here to shut people like me up! Honestly if you still have the gamertags unbanned and the xbox has never been opened then even I may start to believe you!

Nothing makes sense for this ban except for a modded box - any other reason for banning would have resulted in gamertag bans as well - a modded box is all that makes sense.

faceman

Garys Xbox wrote: »

The fact OP has 'Free Xbox Live' in his Motto IS a breach of ToS. It looks as though he is tring to use his profile for financial gain. "No, Money down!"

Ive seen that slogan on many people's profile and understand it to mean that people want Xbox Live to be free, given PSN is free.

Garys Xbox

You can't use the Xbox Live Service to advertise a service or use the service to purchase or sell something. 'Free Xbox Live' could be an invitation to other XBL users to give out their WLID to you with the hopes of getting XBL for free.

Healium

adrian522 wrote: »

Could you please point what ToS has been broken here?

It looks as though? hardly proof,

It's not why the OP was banned. That offence would result in a profile ban, not a console ban.

adrian522 wrote: »

Again this crazy attitude of "here's never been a public case of a console being wrongfully banned"

but

"t's not impossible to find out why you got banned"

all you have to do is

"try and get in contact with the right people"

Who these people are remains a mystery, its certainly not the support staff.

But its all ok because

"the Enforcement team do a great job"

They must have had proof, which they are keeping a secret because

"Everything is checked and double-checked, by humans."

and humans have never made a mistake.

What a wonderful world we live in.

"Phishing and credit card fraud is an issue on Xbox LIVE. I'm sure the majority of people, upon seeing that phrase, thought he was giving out free LIVE subscriptions. That's against the terms you agreed to."

Them thinking he was giving out codes seems to imply they had no proof he was doing it yet banned him anyway, but don't worry it's all ok because

" the Enforcement team do a great job, so you can be sure that you broke one of their policies if you get banned."

Well, if I got banned, I'd go to Stephen Toulouse. I thought it was fairly common knowledge that phone support staff can't tell you why you were banned.

There's a specific forum on Xbox.com, where the Enforcement team tell you why your profile was banned. They don't easily tell you why your console got banned. Do you think they have the time to reply to every kid with a modified avatar, aimbot etc. who thinks he was wrongfully banned? They don't need to, because they've never been wrong. Would you prefer if a computer decided on bans instead of people? It'd be a much worse system.

As I said, selling on XBL is a profile suspension. It's against the terms of use, and if you're advertising and sending out messages, that's all the proof they need. This is not why he got banned.

Fireborn

Your ego is blinding you to what people are trying to help you with. Microsoft owe you nothing. Having read through the thread all I can see is someone unhappy that the authorities finally caught up with them, trying to cause a storm in a teacup.

I can't imagine a scenario where people who keep their job only by the quality of the job they do decided that you, personally deserve a ban. Your sense of self importance is eclipsed only by your sense of self entitlement.

Calling people incompetant because they're not doing what you want them to is also the height of arrogance.

Personally, I hope you do go down the small claims route. Purely so you can get demolished by whoever represents Microsoft. You deserve everything you get.

TheChrisD

Garys Xbox wrote: »

The fact OP has 'Free Xbox Live' in his Motto IS a breach of ToS. It looks as though he is tring to use his profile for financial gain. "No, Money down!"

Garys Xbox wrote: »

You can't use the Xbox Live Service to advertise a service or use the service to purchase or sell something. 'Free Xbox Live' could be an invitation to other XBL users to give out their WLID to you with the hopes of getting XBL for free.

No, having that in the motto is not breaching the ToS. Doing things such as hosting modded/prestige lobbies for MS Points is what that part of the ToS outlaws.

Asry

darklighter wrote: »

And you know this how???

Because the OP has been banned. :rolleyes:

Asry

Fireborn wrote: »

Your ego is blinding you to what people are trying to help you with. Microsoft owe you nothing. Having read through the thread all I can see is someone unhappy that the authorities finally caught up with them, trying to cause a storm in a teacup.

I can't imagine a scenario where people who keep their job only by the quality of the job they do decided that you, personally deserve a ban. Your sense of self importance is eclipsed only by your sense of self entitlement.

Calling people incompetant because they're not doing what you want them to is also the height of arrogance.

Personally, I hope you do go down the small claims route. Purely so you can get demolished by whoever represents Microsoft. You deserve everything you get.

a refreshing oasis.
marry me.



[that's a general term of thank you very much in Asryland, not an actual proposition of marriage]

KerranJast

Can we get away from the childish bickering please and get back to the facts of the case?

OP as pH suggested in post #175, can you check that the warranty sticker is still intact?

Garys Xbox

Asry wrote: »

Because the OP has been banned. :rolleyes:

Very true. I have never heard of someone getting banned from XBL for nothing. And i go back on XBL to the first gen Xbox.

adrian522

Garys Xbox wrote: »

Very true. I have never heard of someone getting banned from XBL for nothing. And i go back on XBL to the first gen Xbox.

So because you have never heard it that means what exactly?

Again there is an assumption of guilt because Microsoft have banned him.

I would have thought it is up to the accuser to prove guilt not the other way around but I guess not in this case.

.E_C_K_S.

From the Xbox LIVE terms of use,
"You must not use the service to harm others or the service.For example you must not:

resell or distribute any part of the service or access to the service"

This is found here http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/Legal/LiveTOU

and

"Consoles can be suspended from Xbox LIVE for a number of reasons including, but not limited to:

Console tampering: Physically opening the Xbox and modifying it to play illegitimate software.
Online fraud: Attempting to social engineer users, take over Xbox LIVE accounts, or other fraudulent activities.
Repeat egregious violations: Multiple actions taken on accounts on the console by the Enforcement team for disrupting the service or impacting users.

and this was found here http://support.xbox.com/en-us/xbox-live/troubleshoot/xbox-live-console-ban.

In this case I genuinely believe the OP was not trying to resell or redistribute a Xbox Live service for free but you can't argue that "Free Xbox LIVE" in your motto can be seen to be offer nothing other than "free" LIVE in an attempt to scam others.

It is a harsh ban, especially when you didn't realise what you had done and MS wouldn't tell you the reason they banned you.

However there are no warnings or time (and rightly so) to let you change your motto-How can they tell the difference between you(of genuine intent) and a person who has succesfully scammed for MSP etc with the same motto and got away with it in the past leading them to be found out and to let them change their motto or face a console ban?
MS will make you pay for this! They just ban you and that's that-they know Terms of use, no matter how minute, have been broken. Sorry OP!

Fireborn

adrian522 wrote: »

So because you have never heard it that means what exactly?

Again there is an assumption of guilt because Microsoft have banned him.

I would have thought it is up to the accuser to prove guilt not the other way around but I guess not in this case.

You guessed correctly.

Garys Xbox

They provide a service to you. If you don't take the piss out of it everything runs fine. Its not a democracy. Your rights strech as far as the ToS and CoC.

KerranJast

adrian522 wrote: »

So because you have never heard it that means what exactly?

Again there is an assumption of guilt because Microsoft have banned him.

I would have thought it is up to the accuser to prove guilt not the other way around but I guess not in this case.

This isn't a court case. As various other posters have said there's never been recorded incident of an incorrect console ban.
There must be a reason, even one unaware to the OP to give him the benefit of the doubt.

adrian522

WALSHY16291 wrote: »

From the Xbox LIVE terms of use,
"You must not use the service to harm others or the service.For example you must not:

resell or distribute any part of the service or access to the service"

This is found here http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/Legal/LiveTOU

and

"Consoles can be suspended from Xbox LIVE for a number of reasons including, but not limited to:

Console tampering: Physically opening the Xbox and modifying it to play illegitimate software.
Online fraud: Attempting to social engineer users, take over Xbox LIVE accounts, or other fraudulent activities.
Repeat egregious violations: Multiple actions taken on accounts on the console by the Enforcement team for disrupting the service or impacting users.

and this was found here http://support.xbox.com/en-us/xbox-live/troubleshoot/xbox-live-console-ban.

In this case I genuinely believe the OP was not trying to resell or redistribute a Xbox Live service for free but you can't argue that "Free Xbox LIVE" in your motto can be seen to be offer nothing other than "free" LIVE in an attempt to scam others.

It is a harsh ban, especially when you didn't realise what you had done and MS wouldn't tell you the reason they banned you.

However there are no warnings or time (and rightly so) to let you change your motto-How can they tell the difference between you(of genuine intent) and a person who has succesfully scammed for MSP etc with the same motto and got away with it in the past leading them to be found out and to let them change their motto or face a console ban?
MS will make you pay for this! They just ban you and that's that-they know Terms of use, no matter how minute, have been broken. Sorry OP!

Yes but saying something in your motto isn't the same as doing it.

MS obviously misunderstood what the motto was about(if this is what the ban was for, which we don't know because Microsoft won't say). What we may have here is a mistake.

What happened to all the proof Microsoft would require or is the motto now considered to be proof enough by the enforcement team doing such a magnificent job?

adrian522

KerranJast wrote: »

This isn't a court case. As various other posters have said there's never been recorded incident of an incorrect console ban.
There must be a reason, even one unaware to the OP to give him the benefit of the doubt.

There never can be because MS never say what the ban was for never mind admitting that they were wrong.

Could the reason be that Microsoft banned the OP in error or is that too ridiculous a thing to ever happen?

Oh sorry I forgot Microsoft don't make mistakes and their enforcement team do a wonderful job (keep repeating this until you believe it)

Garys Xbox

Either way. If it was a problem with Motto they would have asked you to do something about it by sending an E-mail to you. If you did'nt do anything about your motto they would issue a temp ban to get your attention. A perma ban is only issued if they look at your messages between you and anyone else to see if you are doing anything dodgy or they witness you using an exploit in a game or a mod and so on. They wouldn't just pull the name out of a hat and perma ban it. They investigate the gamertag over a period of time.

.E_C_K_S.

Maybe it's the potential to offer such a scam, regardless of how many times he has done it is enough for MS to ban straight away. A console ban just for bad wording. It's an expensive lesson!