RaboDirect Pro 12 - General Season Discussion

thomond2006

Hagz wrote: »

Leaves a lot of stranded players. Apparently a team in Rome are favorites to replace them.

Originally a franchise called "Praetorians" from Rome were meant to enter the then Magners League with Aironi. However they didn't have the financial backing so Treviso were allowed in instead.

Aironi have a few players like Andrea Masi and Nick Williams (He's been brilliant there unlike his injury plagued Munster days) that would seriously benefit Treviso were they to pick them up.

CIARAN_BOYLE

4 Super 10 teams share the ownership of Aironi as far as I know. If Aironi goes belly up they could lose a lot of money causing problems for the Super 10 teams.

Deano7788

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

4 Super 10 teams share the ownership of Aironi as far as I know. If Aironi goes belly up they could lose a lot of money causing problems for the Super 10 teams.

It was originally 8 teams but Viadana and 2 others merged to form Granducato Rugby Parma. They're the majority shareholders, owning almost 80%. 2 of the other teams also merged.

CatFromHue

FIR ANNOUNCE NEW ITALIAN TEAM TO REPLACE AIRONI

The FIR have today issued a press release announcing that they have revoked the Aironi licence to participate the RaboDirect Pro12 due to Financial Pressure.


Aironi will honour all fixtures until the end of the Current season and the FIR have started a procedure to form a new franchise to participate in next year's competition.

RaboDirect PRO12 will issue more information as it becomes available.
http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/13728.php

---

Well that's that then.

Big Nelly

CatFromHue wrote: »

FIR ANNOUNCE NEW ITALIAN TEAM TO REPLACE AIRONI

The FIR have today issued a press release announcing that they have revoked the Aironi licence to participate the RaboDirect Pro12 due to Financial Pressure.


Aironi will honour all fixtures until the end of the Current season and the FIR have started a procedure to form a new franchise to participate in next year's competition.

RaboDirect PRO12 will issue more information as it becomes available.
http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/13728.php

---

Well that's that then.

Rabo 11 next year?

Podge_irl

Presume a new team will replace them. Would have thought he FIR would have had some spare funds to prop them up following the move to Stadio Olympico.

decisions

Podge_irl wrote: »

Presume a new team will replace them. Would have thought he FIR would have had some spare funds to prop them up following the move to Stadio Olympico.

Would probably be cheaper and easier to do that rather than getting a new team up to scratch.

CIARAN_BOYLE

decisions wrote: »

Would probably be cheaper and easier to do that rather than getting a new team up to scratch.

maybe there is a private investor behind the new team that makes it viable without FIR having to spend anything

Big Nelly

Its strange in Italy, they said rugby was kicking off over there because of all the problems about corruption in Seria A but there doesn't seem to be the same investors in Rugby they get in soccer. The Rabo needs them, the 6N needs them to be strong.

Would would happen if one of the other European countries put a club together to compete? I dont know much about it but I see alot about Georgia/Romania etc? with Scotland in disarray and not having any plan to get away from it, like keeping there coach after years of misery. Should the Rabo look further?

I would guess with Rabodirect as sponsors they would like to branch out into Europe.

thomond2006

Any Georgian/Romanian club entering would have to stump up huge money to enter the Rabo, to pay for the other teams' travel costs.

The FIR/Aironi/Treviso had to pay a few million to agree their deal with Celtic Rugby a few years ago.

CIARAN_BOYLE

You know I thought Mauro Bergamasco coming to Aironi around Christmas meant that the team was reasonably well off financially but musn't be.

Big Nelly

thomond2006 wrote: »

Any Georgian/Romanian club entering would have to stump up huge money to enter the Rabo, to pay for the other teams' travel costs.

The FIR/Aironi/Treviso had to pay a few million to agree their deal with Celtic Rugby a few years ago.

Thanks for info, I wasn't sure what procedure was. It's sad to see and will only affect Irish rugby in long term. Who will Leinster bank on beating Munster in dodgy away game:D

Would hope this gets sorted. Need Italian rugby to grow for the good of sport. Sick of listening to England and France complaining.

Big Nelly

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

You know I thought Mauro Bergamasco coming to Aironi around Christmas meant that the team was reasonably well off financially but musn't be.

Well Stade where signing players all around them last season and then nearly went bust, not sure where that is now?

[Jackass]

Stephen Jones signs for Wasps.

Great signing for them, building a good squad for next season (or at least a good squad to attract investors), and not bad for Scarlets as he's probably on fairly big money but second fiddle to Priestland.

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/13759.php

[Jackass]

Looking at the table makes interesting reading...

Leinster need to push on to secure top spot, Ospreys, Munster, Glasgow, Ulster and long shots Scarlets are all battling to make play-offs / get home semi, but then the bottom 6 don't really have anything to play for...

It just crossed my mind, thinking about no relegation (which obviously makes sense...), that a re-structure of the bottom of the league would make all teams, 1 to 12, have something to play for until the last day.

If we look at Heineken Cup qualification, would it make sense to award the top 2 Irish and Welsh teams and the top Scottish and Italian team (regardless of where they finish) automatic qualifiers for the Heineken Cup, so everyone gets representation, and that's 6 automatic spots, and leaves 4 remaining spots to fight for between 6 teams, with the bottom two teams in the league, instead of being relegated, not getting a Heineken Cup spot.

If this was the case this season, you'd have the top 6 fighting for play-offs, Cardiff would be pretty safe in 7th, but then from 8 to 12 (Dragons, Treviso, Connacht, Edinburgh & Aironi) all fighting it out at the bottom for the Heineken Cup spots. If you look at the league table, it would actually be a really close contenst, with only Treviso safe (as top Italian team) but all the others would be the lowest ranked of their national teams, and therefore need to finish outside the last 2 to get Heineken Cup rugby.

It would make sense, and give improving teams like Connacht a fair shot at it, but also it's better for the Heineken Cup not to have teams like Aironi automatically coming in each season and disrupting the entire competition by giving one group almost an automatic 10 points and potential home quarter just by who they're drawn with (I know Aironi beat Biarritz, but for the most part..)

It would also mean Edinburgh, semi-finalists in the Heineken Cup, wouldn't be able to focus solely on the Heineken Cup, because as it stands they are in the bottom 2, so would need to play their stronger team to try and make sure they're in the competition next season, and might not send a second string team to Leinster, which of course is unfair on the league if you get lower teams on the run in with nothing to play for it makes it easier, and then the fixture list can be a big part of who gets what at the top...

Just a suggestion, but worth looking at the table whilst reading this to see what I'm saying. I think it would make for a much more exciting finsih, which would include just about every team until the last day of the season, battling for position, and would make the PRO12 and Heineken Cup fairer, better quality competitions.

justsomebloke

In theory it would be probably be the best idea however from a financial and development perspective I can't see Scottish or Italian teams wanting to go down road.

Scottish rugby as it is needs all the help it can get to try and bolster supporter numbers. Their cup run will probably bring in a good chunk of new supporters to the club which will help bring more money into the club and help develop the team even more. If they had to worry about qualification for next years tournament chances are they wouldn't have gotten this far in the comp as the financial security of HEC rugby would be more important then a potential cup run, but that doesn't get extra bums in seats.

For Italian teams it could mean not being able to compete at all, ever, as they would be financially handicapped from the offset. Rugby in Italy needs all the help it can get to try and improve the popularity of the sport in the country. The best chance of this is HEC rugby as it gets more bums in seats. This is from the fact HEC supporters are more likely to travel then amlin cup fans which gets more travelling support in the door. Also the TV money is also a hell of a lot more important to Italian teams as there really isn't same amount of money in advertising or gate attendances. Given that aironi has already failed even with HEC rugby suggests that Italian teams really will need any help they can get to be in a position to both survive and compete.

From an Irish perspective we need financially viable and well supported Welsh, Scottish and Italian team. Cause as they more these regions can develop the more interest and money there will from TV especially if we can develop the Italian sides.

Rattlehead_ie

Afoa banned for 4 weeks, He will miss this weekends Connaught clash AND the Semi Final. The panel found it had warranted a red card.
Whether its red or not I don't care, how the Ref missed it I don't know.

.ak

Yeh bizarre that the ref missed it. But definately not a red card. :eek:

CiaranMT

Not bizarre. Somebody posted an image the Irish Times had to go with the article on Afoa's ban, which showed Zebo coming across Poite's path as the tackle happened.

I don't know about ye, but if I were a ref, I wouldn't be red-carding people unless I had a clear view of the incident and was absolutely certain of the trangression.

Found the pic:



What has to be considered on top of this is how quickly the whole thing would have happened.

So, in the circumstances, it'd be very harsh to criticise Poite for not doing something.

Imo, the tackle was never a yellow, never mind a red.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Huw Bennetts move to Lyon looks like its in trouble at the moment and the Ospreys can't afford to offer him a contract
http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/13813.php

Wexfordboy89

cardiff are looking for players seemed like an odd move in the first place o know he was probably getting good money but lyon have been struggling for most of the season i think?

CatFromHue

Lyon are 12 points from safety with 3 games left, they could well be relegated this weekend if Bordeux pick up any points at home to Agen.

Lyon play at home to Bayonne and if they win could also put Bayonne down assuming Agen pick up any points.

I think we're going to be hearing alot more about Welsh players who're stuck in limbo to be honest. The salary cap is 3.5m so if you've a squad of 35 players that's 100,000 each I assume the tax man will take half of that too so it's not very profitable for them to stick around in Wales. There is only X amount of clubs available to take on players in France though.

[Jackass]

Cardiff are picking up a lot of lesser name players for their squad. Could be a very smart move if they come good. Could be a disastor if they can't replace the exodes. Cardiff are in serious trouble, and have gone from being the top Welsh "region" a few years ago (EDF Cup, Amlin Cup, Heineken quarters and semi's, a peno shoot out away from a Heineken Cup final) to being the 3rd "region" at the moment...

Copeland in, potentially a very good signing, Campase Ma'afu (sp?) who's a bit of a wild card, but Fijian international prop...players heading out, Jenkins, Thomas, Dan Parks, Martin Williams, Richie Rees, Laulala....they've a lot of work to do over the summer just to maintain their already dipping standards...

[Jackass]

[Jackass] wrote: »

Posted on 12/04

Looking at the table makes interesting reading...

Leinster need to push on to secure top spot, Ospreys, Munster, Glasgow, Ulster and long shots Scarlets are all battling to make play-offs / get home semi, but then the bottom 6 don't really have anything to play for...

It just crossed my mind, thinking about no relegation (which obviously makes sense...), that a re-structure of the bottom of the league would make all teams, 1 to 12, have something to play for until the last day.

If we look at Heineken Cup qualification, would it make sense to award the top 2 Irish and Welsh teams and the top Scottish and Italian team (regardless of where they finish) automatic qualifiers for the Heineken Cup, so everyone gets representation, and that's 6 automatic spots, and leaves 4 remaining spots to fight for between 6 teams, with the bottom two teams in the league, instead of being relegated, not getting a Heineken Cup spot.

If this was the case this season, you'd have the top 6 fighting for play-offs, Cardiff would be pretty safe in 7th, but then from 8 to 12 (Dragons, Treviso, Connacht, Edinburgh & Aironi) all fighting it out at the bottom for the Heineken Cup spots. If you look at the league table, it would actually be a really close contenst, with only Treviso safe (as top Italian team) but all the others would be the lowest ranked of their national teams, and therefore need to finish outside the last 2 to get Heineken Cup rugby.

It would make sense, and give improving teams like Connacht a fair shot at it, but also it's better for the Heineken Cup not to have teams like Aironi automatically coming in each season and disrupting the entire competition by giving one group almost an automatic 10 points and potential home quarter just by who they're drawn with (I know Aironi beat Biarritz, but for the most part..)

It would also mean Edinburgh, semi-finalists in the Heineken Cup, wouldn't be able to focus solely on the Heineken Cup, because as it stands they are in the bottom 2, so would need to play their stronger team to try and make sure they're in the competition next season, and might not send a second string team to Leinster, which of course is unfair on the league if you get lower teams on the run in with nothing to play for it makes it easier, and then the fixture list can be a big part of who gets what at the top...

Just a suggestion, but worth looking at the table whilst reading this to see what I'm saying. I think it would make for a much more exciting finsih, which would include just about every team until the last day of the season, battling for position, and would make the PRO12 and Heineken Cup fairer, better quality competitions.

Gerry Thornley wrote:

Printed on 17/04

Maybe Pro 12 should offer merit-based Heineken places

....

In the absence of relegation, perhaps it is time for the Pro 12 to consider a more merit-based qualification for the Heineken Cup, whereby the top 10 qualify regardless of nationality. As it is, Connacht lie 10th and could yet overtake both Treviso and the Dragons for a highest ever League placing, yet their Heineken Cup fate hinges on either Leinster, again, or Ulster winning the European blue riband.

Imagine how much intrigue this would have given the bottom as well as the top of the table on the League run-in? This would certainly have concentrated Edinburgh’s minds on more “domestic” matters this last while.

Gerry, this isn't the first time you've condensed boards.ie posts into lazy arse articles and printed them a few days later. Get off the internet, stop reading rugby forums and use your imagination for fecks sake.

Print things the fans will discuss, don't print whatever the fans are discussing. It's the difference between a reuters copy and paste journalist and a insightful, credible hack.

Thanks. *Waves at Gerry*

Quint2010

[Jackass] wrote: »

Gerry, this isn't the first time you've condensed boards.ie posts into lazy arse articles and printed them a few days later. Get off the internet, stop reading rugby forums and use your imagination for fecks sake.

Print things the fans will discuss, don't print whatever the fans are discussing. It's the difference between a reuters copy and paste journalist and a insightful, credible hack.

Thanks. *Waves at Gerry*

Ha fair play! What do they say about imitation...?..:)

tolosenc

[Jackass] wrote: »

Gerry, this isn't the first time you've condensed boards.ie posts into lazy arse articles and printed them a few days later. Get off the internet, stop reading rugby forums and use your imagination for fecks sake.

Print things the fans will discuss, don't print whatever the fans are discussing. It's the difference between a reuters copy and paste journalist and a insightful, credible hack.

Thanks. *Waves at Gerry*

Plus, there have been about a thousand well written posts in recent months here explaining why Kidney should be sacked and where the fundamental issues lie in Irish rugby, but you haven't mentioned any of those, Gerry.

lologram

tolosenc wrote: »

Plus, there have been about a thousand well written posts in recent months here explaining why Kidney should be sacked and where the fundamental issues lie in Irish rugby, but you haven't mentioned any of those, Gerry.

That inside scoop on the national team is worth the tradeoff right?

I'm surprised Jackass' entire post wasn't lifted. It's a pretty decent model of how to do it.

phog

PLAY-OFFS DATES AND TIMES CONFIRMED

RaboDirect PRO12 today confirmed the dates and kick off times for the RaboDirect PRO12 Play-Offs.

Top seeded Leinster will play the fourth seeded team on Saturday May 12th at 19.35pm in the RDS. The fourth seeded team will be confirmed after Round 22 of the RaboDirect PRO12, on Saturday May 5th.

The other Play-off between second and third placed seeds will take place on Friday May 11th at 19.35pm. Venue and teams are still to be confirmed over the next two rounds of the regular season of the RaboDirect PRO12.

CIARAN_BOYLE

phog wrote: »

PLAY-OFFS DATES AND TIMES CONFIRMED

Would have preferred the friday for Leinster personally, if in HEC final an extra day would be a good thing

Taco Corp

Dream team announced

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/news/13957.php

15 Isa Nacewa (Leinster)
14 Tim Visser (Edinburgh)
13 Casey Laulala (Cardiff Blues)
12 Ashley Beck (Ospreys)
11 Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues)
10 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors)
9 Ruan Pienaar (Ulster)
8 Ben Morgan (Scarlets)
7 Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)
6 Dave Denton (Edinburgh)
5 Tom Ryder (Glasgow Warriors)
4 Dan Tuohy (Ulster)
3 BJ Botha (Munster)
2 Richardt Strauss (Leinster)
1 Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors)