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Killiney Towers Roundabout is being made narrower!
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Dutch roundabout in Den Bosch with smaller radius central island, grass verges to separate cyclists from circulating cars and no sharp angled turns for bikes.
Is there room for this design at Killiney Towers? I would have thought so.
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nomdeboardie wrote: »Eh...Proud to be Irish now?... :pac:
Of course - I'm Irish and proud of it.
However, what we have running this country (politicians, cronies etc) are not exactly our most intelligent are they??? I consider myself and many people here as intelligent Irish people - then there's the gombeen Irish that's running (err, I meant ruining) this country!
Time for a real republic!!! :cool:0 -
OssianSmyth wrote: »Dutch roundabout in Den Bosch with smaller radius central island, grass verges to separate cyclists from circulating cars and no sharp angled turns for bikes.
Is there room for this design at Killiney Towers? I would have thought so.
...and isn't it much better and fair to all road users! Note that the entry/exits are not ridiculously tight for motor vehicles either while the grass verges separating the cycle lanes give far better sight-lines as well as allowing cars to yield to cyclists off the circulatory carriageway.
Yes, this is IMO an all round fair solution! 0 -
Irish and Proud wrote: »...and isn't it much better and fair to all road users! Note that the entry/exits are not ridiculously tight for motor vehicles either while the grass verges separating the cycle lanes give far better sight-lines as well as allowing cars to yield to cyclists off the circulatory carriageway.
Yes, this is IMO an all round fair solution!
I notice that it's also perfect for buses and articulated trucks too. The cyclists appear to be much safer all around. However, in that particular video, there were one or two motorists who jammed on the brakes suddenly just as a cyclist went to cross. Perhaps, mild to moderate speed ramps just after the exits could sort this out. Aside from that, the roundabout in the video looks like a fair solution for all.:D
On the other hand, the proposed re-revision of Killiney Towers Roundabout has failed to make efficient use of the space outside of the proposed concrete section. If you look at the map of the proposal, you can see telltale signs of the original layout as well as the remaining concrete space. I do acknowledge the fact that the proposed entry/exit radii are 4/6 meters wider than at present which is a decent improvement but not perfect either.:) The redesign also appears to be slowing down progress significantly for cyclists in that they have to cross at each individual junction which is completely unacceptable:mad:. As has been pointed out here and many other threads, this is what puts the pseudo in pseudo-dutch roundabout design.;) Priority for pedestrians seems to have improved slightly but not much.
Bar pedestrians, cyclists and motorists are still hemmed in by each other due to the inefficient management of the space. I provided a map one or two pages back outlining another possible solution. This solution separates motorists and cyclists at crucial points. It is a work in progress as I am yet to add things like speed ramps/zebra crossings at the exits. It is loosely based on the original roundabout design. However, the width of the carriageway remains consistent the entire way around the central island. In the previous layout, the width varied erratically between 6.5 to 13 meters. In the following redesign, I have addressed the above inconsistencies by moving the entrance of Upper Glenageary Road forward by up 7 meters as well as building out other kerb lines by 2 to 5 meters. This enables the kerb to facilitate a mostly segregated cycle path. Nevertheless, here it is:
Feel free to give feedback!
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All of the lines overlayed on the images of these roundabouts measure 70m (give or take a fraction of a meter)
Killiney Towers:
Random roundabout outside Utrict in the Netherlands, #1:
Map | Street View
#2:
Map | Street View
#3:
Map | Street View
The three of those are in within 1km of each other.0 -
Those roundabouts are actually in Nieuwegein, which is beside Utrict in the Netherlands. Here's another one from the same area... it's like Killiney Towers, but much smaller and without the kerb...
Map | Street View
This one, in Den Bosch, is about the same design but with a kerb:
Map | Street View
Another one with kerb in a nearby area:
Map | Street View
Another a few km from the above one, around the same design:
Map | Street View
NOTE: All of the examples from the Netherlands are four armed roundabouts when the roundabout we're manly talking about has five roads joining it.0 -
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Do I actually see on-road as well as off-road cycle lanes? So what happens if a cyclist takes the former to circulate past one or more exits?? I think this is just going to multiply the chaos :pac:. I'll still be planning to stick to the main carriageway so:rolleyes:
Edit: Think I misinterpreted it - there's only one, raised, cycle-track. But it's doing the turn-your-back-to-motors-and-yield-at-all-unctions-you want-to-pass thing. (Same result - I'll be failing to touch it with a 10-foot bargepole)0 -
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What was wrong with it in the first place when it was a simple roundabout?
Nothing really. I still think that all the roundabout needed was a resurfacing job and minor alignment changes to accommodate a segregated cycle track (see my most recent map
). Some of it's major flaws are as follows:- As far as I can see, the only people who will benefit slightly more from the proposed re-revision are pedestrians.
- It is essentially a massive downgrade for cyclists who intend using the raised cycle track as they will now be forced to cross by foot at each junction. I can't see why cyclists would bother using it because it will slow their progress down significantly. As such, it is understandable why they might take to the main carriageway as it's the fastest and possibly safest option as per nomdeboardie and Andy-Pandy's latest observations. Inevitably, it's unattractive nature will deter cyclists resulting in low usage. Ultimately, the raised cycle track may either have to be rejigged or completely decommissioned.
- While some of the junctions are marginally wider, buses and articulated trucks will continue to struggle especially with the addition of speed ramps at the entry and exits.
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OssianSmyth wrote: »Dutch roundabout in Den Bosch with smaller radius central island, grass verges to separate cyclists from circulating cars and no sharp angled turns for bikes.
Is there room for this design at Killiney Towers? I would have thought so.
The new design just looks like a sharper version of this to me.0 -
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I decided to email the transportation department of Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council late last night voicing my concerns over the upcoming remodeling of the roundabout. Here it is:To whom it may concern,
I am writing this email in response to the proposed re-revision (Final layout) of Killiney Towers Roundabout. At first glance, it appeared to be an improvement on the current layout. However, on closer inspection, I noticed that some of the junctions will be slightly tighter. This raises a lot of concerns as to how large vehicles such as articulated trucks and buses will be able to negotiate the roundabout without a considerable struggle. First and foremost are the proposed speed ramps at each arm of the circulatory carriageway which could be problematic for such vehicles as well as the tight junctions. Moreover, in the current and proposed layouts, vehicles exceeding a certain length are expected to mount the cobble-lock buffer surrounding the central median which is potentially dangerous. While this enables buses and articulated trucks to gain extra maneuvering space, it increases the chances of the hind axle mounting the raised part of the central island.
Another concern is that it is a significant downgrade for cyclists due to the fact that they will be forced to cross each junction by foot if they decide to take to the raised cycle path. I cant's see how this is more attractive for cyclists given that it slows their progress down significantly if they intend on taking the second and subsequent exits. Having said that, I do acknowledge that it is a slight improvement for pedestrians. There is also an abundance of space outside of the proposed concrete and asphalt space which has gone largely underutilized which will be used for a rather minimal, yet superfluous amount of greenery as per the finalized proposal. Instead, much of this space could be used to construct a fully segregated outer cycle path.
I am attaching a map which better describes what I am talking about. This possible alternative solution separates motorists and cyclists at crucial points. It is a work in progress as I am yet to add things like speed ramps/zebra crossings at the exits. It is loosely based on the original roundabout design. However, the width of the carriageway remains consistent the entire way around the central island. In the previous layout, the width varied erratically between 6.5 to 13 meters. In the following redesign, I have addressed the above inconsistencies by moving the entrance of Upper Glenageary Road forward by up 7 meters as well as building out other kerb lines by 2 to 5 meters. This enables the kerb to facilitate a completely segregated cycle path. The circulatory carriageway would revert to being two lanes in width at 6.5 meters. Nevertheless, here it is:
The colour codes are pretty straight forward:
Dark Grey: Outer curb alignments.
Grey: Junction medians.
Red: Outer cycle track separated by concrete at crucial points. In the above example the cycle track would be raised. The cycle track itself would be roughly 2 to 3 meters in width.
Green: Roundabout island.
Dark Red Line: Outer carriageway boundary.
I designed the above map in Google Earth using Polygons and Paths. Using the Ruler tool, I was able to measure the width of the various elements for maximum accuracy.
I got the following response rather promptly this morning:Have passed on your query to our Traffic Engineers to investigate.You should hear back from them shortly.
I omitted the name of the replier for legal reasons;).
I'm not too sure if this is a copy and paste response. However, it was very brief and somewhat positive.
I certainly won't hold my breath. But, it's a start:D.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEXD0guLQY0
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