sinn fein why the hatred

Liam Byrne

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Liam, you would almost think you didn't like me.

I don't know you, but I'm not even sure what that has to do with the thread.

I detest your logic, reasoning and bias in your posts here, if that's any clarification.

200motels

I'm a Labour party member and I don't have a problem with SF never really had, I've often given them a 2nd preference vote, yes some of there political views are a bit suspect but so are the rest and the way the Labour party are going at the moment with there right wing views I think they might get my number one vote in the future.

Omacron

Labour party right wing...steady on there. At best they're left of center like most European labour parties currently and they do have to play second fiddle to Fine Gael at the moment. I do agree they have been moving away from the left though but I suspect the reaction on the doorsteps during the last election had a lot to do with that. They thought their more left leaning policies would get them a bigger slice of the disaffected vote. However I feel the threat of higher taxation scared a lot of voters away (struggling with negative equity and paycuts anyway) and let Fine Gael back in. It was a shame to see Eamon Gilmore start deferring to Enda in the debates once they realised the initial polls on Labour had been over optimistic.

Alopex

Omacron wrote: »

Labour party right wing...steady on there. At best they're left of center like most European labour parties currently and they do have to play second fiddle to Fine Gael at the moment. I do agree they have been moving away from the left though but I suspect the reaction on the doorsteps during the last election had a lot to do with that. They thought their more left leaning policies would get them a bigger slice of the disaffected vote. However I feel the threat of higher taxation scared a lot of voters away (struggling with negative equity and paycuts anyway) and let Fine Gael back in. It was a shame to see Eamon Gilmore start deferring to Enda in the debates once they realised the initial polls on Labour had been over optimistic.

What exactly is left wing about labour? they brought in the low corporation tax which is hugely right wing economically

Quinn has ruled out state loans for students who can't afford the fees- not very left wing.

I know you will come back and say they get grants but there is a large demographic of people who's parents spent too much on property. So whilst they earn too much for their kids to qualify for grants they cannot afford the fees due to large mortgages.

This isn't fair on those kids. They can't force their parents to sell the house. The link between parents income and the grants should be severed.

They continue to support a right wing party in power. I am just at a loss as to how they are considered economically left wing.

Yag reuoY

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Ah, if the British had have subscribed to that and listened to the wishes of the majority of Irishmen we wouldn't be having this conversation, and McCabe surely wouldn't have been shot by a member of the IRA. Funny how those who harp on about democracy tend to ignore the undemocratic actions of the Brits which resulted in the creation of the IRA isn't it?

Anyway, we have been through this a million times before so I think I will leave it at this. Thankfully those with such narrow-minded objections to SF are lessening in numbers as more and more people can see what SF is today, and the beneficial work they do all throughout the country. They and the ULA are the only parties who are different in Leinster house, the others are all the same, as those who voted FG or labour in the hope things would be different are finding out.

I think you would look just adorable in this one:

http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=646&osCsid=6cd8f171d41d9a90ea62d6bb566019d5

How you can justify aligning yourself with murderous thugs is beyond me. :rolleyes:

blahfckingblah

Omacron I think that the Labour party is currently divided between those who are coming from the traditional Labour left wing point of view and those who have began to see things from a centre right point of view. some of its ministers have disaffected from the traditional view but require the votes of the lefties particularly that of voters in dublin.

Wolfe Tone

Alopex wrote: »

What exactly is left wing about labour? they brought in the low corporation tax which is hugely right wing economically

Quinn has ruled out state loans for students who can't afford the fees- not very left wing.

I know you will come back and say they get grants but there is a large demographic of people who's parents spent too much on property. So whilst they earn too much for their kids to qualify for grants they cannot afford the fees due to large mortgages.

This isn't fair on those kids. They can't force their parents to sell the house. The link between parents income and the grants should be severed.

They continue to support a right wing party in power. I am just at a loss as to how they are considered economically left wing.

Well said Alopex, especially about the grants, thats a huge problem.

Wolfe Tone

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I think you would look just adorable in this one:

http://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=646&osCsid=6cd8f171d41d9a90ea62d6bb566019d5

How you can justify aligning yourself with murderous thugs is beyond me. :rolleyes:

It's a nice T shirt all right

Godge

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Ah, if the British had have subscribed to that and listened to the wishes of the majority of Irishmen we wouldn't be having this conversation, and McCabe surely wouldn't have been shot by a member of the IRA. Funny how those who harp on about democracy tend to ignore the undemocratic actions of the Brits which resulted in the creation of the IRA isn't it?

Anyway, we have been through this a million times before so I think I will leave it at this. Thankfully those with such narrow-minded objections to SF are lessening in numbers as more and more people can see what SF is today, and the beneficial work they do all throughout the country. They and the ULA are the only parties who are different in Leinster house, the others are all the same, as those who voted FG or labour in the hope things would be different are finding out.

Ah, the classic SF defence, if we had had a vote on the whole island, Ireland wouldn't have been partitioned in 1921.

It misses one inconvenient truth. Ireland wasn't partitioned in 1921, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was partitioned. To follow Sinn Fein's logic to its end, there should have been a vote across the whole of the United Kingdom and we would have remained part of the UK.

You see, when you speak SinnFeinese, you can twist any set of facts to suit your own truth. Freedom fighters, self-defence, murder, collusion, sectarian, whatever, you just proclaim it so, dress it up in mumbo-jumbo Adamseque style and convince a group of impreesionable teenage male students and you have your supporters and your fellow-travellers. Off you go on another cycle of death and destruction. When not enough of your members are getting killed to keep attention on your cause, commit an outrageous atrocity - Mountbatten, Omagh, McCabe - or in extremis encourage one of your own to make a sacrifice of himself - Sands. Build up the myth, the flag-waving, the aura, the excitement etc. and soon you have a new generation of teenage male wannabes to offer up in sacrifice for Ireland. Except that it is all a lie.

Alopex

Godge wrote: »

Ah, the classic SF defence, if we had had a vote on the whole island, Ireland wouldn't have been partitioned in 1921.

It misses one inconvenient truth. Ireland wasn't partitioned in 1921, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was partitioned. To follow Sinn Fein's logic to its end, there should have been a vote across the whole of the United Kingdom and we would have remained part of the UK.

not so sure about that to be honest

Yag reuoY

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

It's a nice T shirt all right

I'm not sure the families of the 2000 victims of IRA brutality would agree.

But thank you for providing documentary evidence of your support of the IRA, by proxy of Sinn Fein.

Wolfe Tone

Godge wrote: »

Ah, the classic SF defence, if we had had a vote on the whole island, Ireland wouldn't have been partitioned in 1921.

It misses one inconvenient truth. Ireland wasn't partitioned in 1921, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland was partitioned. To follow Sinn Fein's logic to its end, there should have been a vote across the whole of the United Kingdom and we would have remained part of the UK.

:rolleyes:

Het-Field

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Why roll your eyes on a perfectly legitimate question and transcription of logic?

Godge

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Marvellous contribution to the thread. Looks like the logic of it silenced you.

Wolfe Tone

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I'm not sure the families of the 2000 victims of IRA brutality would agree.

But thank you for providing documentary evidence of your support of the IRA, by proxy of Sinn Fein.

Congratulations, you have unraveled a conspiracy of gargantuan proportions in discovering that I feel the IRA were justified in taking up arms.

Liam Byrne

Het-Field wrote: »

Why roll your eyes on a perfectly legitimate question and transcription of logic?

I suspect because it's inconvenient and because the facts doesn't suit what they choose to believe.

A bit like the "self defence" and "manslaughter" defence of the murderers earlier in the thread, despite simultaneous hints that the thugs were out to get McCabe because of past interactions.

Godge

Alopex wrote: »

not so sure about that to be honest

Well, if the vote had taken place at the time, we would have remained part of the UK.

However, if the voters of the time knew what was in front of them in dealing with the likes of the IRA, UVF, Canary Wharf, Birmingham and Manchester bombings, countless atrocities on this island (sadly most in the name of so-called Irish freedom), then they probably would have voted to be rid of us.

Alopex

Godge wrote: »

Marvellous contribution to the thread. Looks like the logic of it silenced you.

I am a unionist and if the whole of the UK voted on northern ireland we'd be out on our ear. Probably woulda been the same in 1920 about ireland

Het-Field

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I suspect because it's inconvenient and because the facts doesn't suit what they choose to believe.

A bit like the "self defence" and "manslaughter" defence of the murderers earlier in the thread, despite simultaneous hints that the thugs were out to get McCabe because of past interactions.

In fairness to WT he is right about the manslaughter part. The Court determined it to be so, and in the presence of all the facts, I am willing to accept that.

However, the self defence thing is totally far-fetched.

Godge

Alopex wrote: »

not so sure about that to be honest

Well, if the vote had taken place at the time, we would have remained part of the UK.

However, if the voters of the time knew what was in front of them in dealing with the likes of the IRA, UVF, Canary Wharf, Birmingham and Manchester bombings, countless atrocities on this island (sadly most in the name of so-called Irish freedom), then they probably would have voted to be rid of us.

blahfckingblah

Godge Omagh had nothing to do with sinn fein. Just because a person supports sinn fein, their candidate or some policys doesnt mean they automatically support death of Jerry McCabe. How many times has the death of Jerry McCabe been thrown up by people here? Sinn Fein have came a long way since the events of the 70's 80's and 90's and if you can't respect that then its not Sinn Fein that has the problem.

Het-Field

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I suspect because it's inconvenient and because the facts doesn't suit what they choose to believe.

A bit like the "self defence" and "manslaughter" defence of the murderers earlier in the thread, despite simultaneous hints that the thugs were out to get McCabe because of past interactions.

In fairness to WT he is right about the manslaughter part. The Court determined it to be so, and in the presence of all the facts, I am willing to accept that.

However, the self defence thing is totally far-fetched.

Het-Field

blahfckingblah wrote: »

Godge Omagh had nothing to do with sinn fein. Just because a person supports sinn fein, their candidate or some policys doesnt mean they automatically support death of Jerry McCabe. How many times has the death of Jerry McCabe been thrown up by people here? Sinn Fein have came a long way since the events of the 70's 80's and 90's and if you can't respect that then its not Sinn Fein that has the problem.

Will they condemn it, and apologise?

Wolfe Tone

Alopex wrote: »

I am a unionist and if the whole of the UK voted on northern ireland we'd be out on our ear. Probably woulda been the same in 1920 about ireland

Its a shame there aren't more unionists like yourself on here, a welcome breath of fresh air and you bring a healthy degree of reasonableness to discussions, much more so than our loyalist friends.

Liam Byrne

Het-Field wrote: »

In fairness to WT he is right about the manslaughter part. The Court determined it to be so, and in the presence of all the facts, I am willing to accept that.

Courts don't always get it right, as WT would be first to shout if the roles were reversed. I find it completely disingenuous that they blindly accept this court decision because it suits their agenda while screaming blue murder re other court decisions.

The only reason that manslaughter was considered was because of witness intimidation and refusal to testify, so better to make something stick rather than nothing to get the thugs off the streets.

But strangely absolutely no cash was stolen during the "robbery".

Het-Field

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Its a shame there aren't more unionists like yourself on here, a welcome breath of fresh air and you bring a healthy degree of reasonableness to discussions, much more so than our loyalist friends.

Sorry. If that did come to pass, it would have everything to do with the economic circumstances which prevail, it would have nothing to do with the Nationalist/Unionist thing.

The other stuff about the 1920s is mere speculation, which in my view is incorrect speculation.

Yag reuoY

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Congratulations, you have unraveled a conspiracy of gargantuan proportions in discovering that I feel the IRA were justified in taking up arms.

I'm sorry? If an 'army' kills innocent civilians surely this is breach of any code of moral decency?

By justifying the IRA's actions you give up all right to espouse outrage at the British army's conduct in Bloody Sunday.

You are a laughable hypocrite.

laoch na mona

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I'm not sure the families of the 2000 victims of IRA brutality would agree.

the majority of people killed by the ira weren't innocent the were paramilitaries or british soldiers

remember loyalists shooting women coming out of mass and attacking children on their way to skol

that said i support sinn fein because of their polices not cause im overly republican

Omacron

I agree with your point on the college fees its a good point and its well made. But I think calling labour right wing because they support a low corporation tax rate is disingenuous. When Labour start calling for income tax cuts, massive public spending cuts and breaking all associations with trade unions then I'll revisit my opinion. I still believe they are as a party are more socially conscious than the other big 2 (if we can call FF big anymore). As previous posters have noted they are stuck between appeasing their traditional supporters and attempting to broaden their support base we’ll see how that goes I suppose in the coming years.

Wolfe Tone

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I'm sorry? If an 'army' kills innocent civilians surely this is breach of any code of moral decency?

By justifying the IRA's actions you give up all right to espouse outrage at the British army's conduct in Bloody Sunday.

You are a laughable hypocrite.

I've never justified all of the IRAs actions, some were obviously wrong.

Godge

blahfckingblah wrote: »

Godge Omagh had nothing to do with sinn fein. Just because a person supports sinn fein, their candidate or some policys doesnt mean they automatically support death of Jerry McCabe. How many times has the death of Jerry McCabe been thrown up by people here? Sinn Fein have came a long way since the events of the 70's 80's and 90's and if you can't respect that then its not Sinn Fein that has the problem.

Again, the twisted logic, Sinn Fein for years, justified the troubles as the IRA following in the footsteps of the men of 1916 and the First Dail in 1919 even though over 50 years had passed. Yet, when a man who was a member of the IRA and Sinn Fein for years commits an atrocity in Omagh (for which he was found liable in a civil court), Omagh had nothing to do with Sinn Fein.

It is up there with the unauthorised (because we don't want the public anger) authorised (because we want them freed under the GFA) killing of Garda McCabe.

Which is it boys? Are you part of a long unbroken history back to 1916, in which case you bear some responsibility for Omagh, or are you just an opportunistic criminal gang using the green flag?

laoch na mona

Yag reuoY wrote: »

British army's conduct in Bloody Sunday.

when they shot 14 innocent people??

lugha

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Thankfully those with such narrow-minded objections to SF are lessening in numbers ....

Respecting democracy is not narrow-minded. Using force on behalf of a people against the wishes of those people amounts to mind-numbing arrogance. Not to mention hypocrisy, given that those that used it condemn fascism and imperialism. Can you possibly explain to be what republicans mean when they say that the question of Ireland should be decided by the Irish when the plainly did not adhere to this and felt that their tiny minority knew best? It is just a bit of an ‘aul republican joke? Alas, I suspect many republicans simple do not see the fundamental problem here.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

.... as more and more people can see what SF is today, and the beneficial work they do all throughout the country. They and the ULA are the only parties who are different in Leinster house, the others are all the same, as those who voted FG or labour in the hope things would be different are finding out.

Such is the nature of any small party of protest that they can devise all sort of daft policies safe in the knowledge that they will never be tested. Many of us of course know that there is no painless (no cuts) way to solving our current crisis and don’t take too seriously those that suggest otherwise. But some people do (want to?) believe and thus voted Sinn Fein and not because they endorse their rather confused view of democracy. I see little evidence of any great appetite for daft nationalism amongst the Irish people, they have real, grown-up problems to worry about.

Wolfe Tone

SF or the PIRA cant be held responsible for the actions of other groups.

Het-Field

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

SF or the PIRA cant be held responsible for the actions of other groups.

So they did not have an nexus at all?

Godge

laoch na mona wrote: »

the majority of people killed by the ira weren't innocent the were paramilitaries or british soldiers

remember loyalists shooting women coming out of mass and attacking children on their way to skol

that said i support sinn fein because of their polices not cause im overly republican

One third of the murders committed by the IRA were murders of civilians.

lugha

Het-Field wrote: »

Why roll your eyes on a perfectly legitimate question and transcription of logic?

The answer would be: Ireland is one country because God made it so. :rolleyes:

Not a great answer, but I don't think you'll be getting one from republicans that is a lot better.

Yag reuoY

laoch na mona wrote: »

the majority of people killed by the ira weren't innocent the were paramilitaries or british soldiers

remember loyalists shooting women coming out of mass and attacking children on their way to skol

that said i support sinn fein because of their polices not cause im overly republican

So you just gloss over their connections with a brutal terrorist group responsible for scores of civilian deaths simply because they have 'policies' you agree with?

Do you think you could trust such people to even implement these wonderful policies?

Do not also think that said policies may not be realistic and, as they know they'll never be a majority party in government, will never have to implement them?

Oh dear.

laoch na mona

Yag reuoY wrote: »

So you just gloss over their connections with a brutal terrorist group responsible for scores of civilian deaths simply because they have 'policies' you agree with?

Do you think you could trust such people to even implement these wonderful policies?

yes and they are committed to peace they used violence when it was needed and stopped when they went to far.

would you condemn ff for the civil war?

Godge

Het-Field wrote: »

Will they condemn it, and apologise?

To be fair, Sinn Fein did condemn the Omagh bombings, they had to as the peace process would have collapsed if they had not.

More to the point, given that McKevitt's hide-outs, arms storage facilities, movements in the weeks prior to Omagh, would have been known to members of Sinn Fein and the IRA, where were the co-operative witnesses to help bring him to justice?

blahfckingblah

Godge wrote: »

Again, the twisted logic, Sinn Fein for years, justified the troubles as the IRA following in the footsteps of the men of 1916 and the First Dail in 1919 even though over 50 years had passed. Yet, when a man who was a member of the IRA and Sinn Fein for years commits an atrocity in Omagh (for which he was found liable in a civil court), Omagh had nothing to do with Sinn Fein.

It is up there with the unauthorised (because we don't want the public anger) authorised (because we want them freed under the GFA) killing of Garda McCabe.

Which is it boys? Are you part of a long unbroken history back to 1916, in which case you bear some responsibility for Omagh, or are you just an opportunistic criminal gang using the green flag?

well I'l say it again I DO NOT SUPPORT WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY. Actually I think it is fair to distinguish as he had no dealing with sinn fein whatsoever at the time and his acts were damaging to the peace process.

KeithAFC

Sinn Fein and the PIRA is the same thing. Sinn Fein are the PIRA. Anything the PIRA did can be blamed on Sinn Fein. The Jerry McCabe shooting can be blamed on Sinn Fein.

HellsAngel

Yag reuoY wrote: »

I'm sorry? If an 'army' kills innocent civilians surely this is breach of any code of moral decency?

By justifying the IRA's actions you give up all right to espouse outrage at the British army's conduct in Bloody Sunday.

You are a laughable hypocrite.

How are these the same ??

IRA plant a bomb at Enniskillen hoping to catch a passing patrol of British soldiers that morning, bomb fails to go off, civilians gather, then it's set off by a Brit jamming device - IRA are blamed regardless.

Soldiers take off safety catch, load bullet into the breach, lift rifle and take careful aim, murders citizens - most of them teenagers. And commanding officer later gets awarded OBE by British head of state.

blahfckingblah

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sinn Fein and the PIRA is the same thing. Sinn Fein are the PIRA. Anything the PIRA did can be blamed on Sinn Fein. The Jerry McCabe shooting can be blamed on Sinn Fein.

even pearse doherty and the younger members?
very narrowsighted, so then you think the provisional IRA are your government?

Alopex

HellsAngel wrote: »

IRA plant a bomb at Enniskillen hoping to catch a passing patrol of British soldiers that morning, bomb fails to go off, civilians gather, then it's set off by a Brit jamming device - IRA are blamed regardless.

you got a source for that? even if true they planted a massive bomb in a town centre. of course they get the blame ffs

The more likely story is they knew some security forces would be at the ceremony and thought civilians killed would be collateral damage.

Het-Field

HellsAngel wrote: »

How are these the same ??

IRA plant a bomb at Enniskillen hoping to catch a passing patrol of British soldiers that morning, bomb fails to go off, civilians gather, then it's set off by a Brit jamming device - IRA are blamed regardless. .

Of course they should be blamed :rolleyes:

It would be rank idiocy to think otherwise.

HellsAngel

Alopex wrote: »

you got a source for that? even if true they planted a massive bomb in a town centre. of course they get the blame ffs

The more likely story is they knew some security forces would be at the ceremony and thought civilians killed would be collateral damage.

you got a source for that?

Alopex

never mind - this disproves the radio jamming lie

(by Suzanne Breen, Sunday Tribune)

Twenty years on, no-one has been charged or convicted with the Enniskillen bomb reports Suzanne Breen, Northern Editor

The 40lb IRA bomb was left in a sports bag in the Reading Rooms, a building owned by the Catholic Church, beside the war memorial. A bingo session, held in the hall on the eve of the bombing, ended at 10.30pm.

Jim Dunlop, the building's caretaker, and three other men stayed on playing cards in the basement. Around midnight, they heard noises upstairs and stopped. But they put it down to an old building creaking on a windy night.

It's now believed the noise came from those planting the bomb. From interviewing security and republican contacts, Denzil McDaniel – editor of Fermanagh's Impartial Reporter and author of Enniskillen, the Remembrance Sunday bombing – has pieced together an account of the bombers' movements.

"The bombers were shown around Enniskillen by two local IRA men," he says. "The device was made in Ballinamore, Co Leitrim, by the South Fermanagh Brigade. The West Fermanagh Brigade – based in the Ballyshannon/Bundoran area – helped bring it across the Border.

"The bombers moved cautiously in relay teams to evade security patrols. It took over 24 hours to transport the device. Up to 30 IRA people were involved." A parade of UDR soldiers was on its way to the war memorial for the service when the bomb exploded. The IRA said that was its intended target.

"I don't believe the IRA set out to specifically kill civilians," McDaniel says. "I think they made mistakes, probably with their intelligence on the time-table for the service, but the IRA was reckless about civilian life. Even if the UDR men had been there, they couldn't have been killed without killing civilians too.

"The IRA probably thought if security forces members were killed, a few civilian deaths would be 'acceptable', especially since those attending the service would be seen by republicans as pro-British military and establishment. It had been a bad year for the IRA, six months earlier eight members were killed by the SAS at Loughgall. When all the Enniskillen casualties were civilians, republicans took a hit politically – particularly in the Irish Republic."

Initially, the IRA said the bomb had been prematurely set off by British Army radio equipment. It was lies. A remote control device had not been used. An electronic timer was found in the rubble, set for the time the bomb exploded.

Unlike McDaniel, many of the injured and bereaved believe the bomb was deliberately aimed at civilians in the hope of driving Protestants from the Border area. That day, the IRA also placed a bomb near the Remembrance service in Tullyhommon, 15 miles from Enniskillen, but it failed to explode.

Unlike Enniskillen, there was a limited security force presence at that parade. Those taking part were overwhelmingly young people – around 200 members of the local boys' and girls' brigades.

Compared to the Real IRA's 1998 Omagh bombing, McDaniel says there's been an attempt to airbrush Enniskillen from history. The Provisional movement embraced the peace process and embarrassing it over Enniskillen serves no political purpose, whereas dissidents remain pariahs to the authorities.

McDaniel also believes the victims' profiles has resulted in Omagh's elevation: "In Omagh, Catholic and Protestants were killed and there was an international element with the Spanish deaths. In Enniskillen, it was just local Protestants. Enniskillen took place when the Troubles were raging. Omagh happened when they were meant to be over."

No-one was ever convicted of Enniskillen. While rumours have circulated, there's no certainty in the town about the identity of those involved, McDaniel says. "At the time, Mrs Thatcher came over and said no stone would be left unturned in finding the bombers. It was rubbish. The police investigation was utterly incompetent."

Aileen Quinton says: "As someone very pro-police, I presumed they'd do a good job. I was horrified to find they didn't interview witnesses who had given detailed accounts in newspapers, and they hadn't ascertained victims' final movements. Simple, basic things weren't done."

The Historical Enquiries Team is now investigating Enniskillen but Aileen has little faith it will lead to prosecutions and the truth, "not to protect the bombers but because the IRA leaders who sanctioned the attack are perhaps not too far away from Stormont".

http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/Sunday_Tribune/arts2007/oct28_Enniskillen_airbrush__SBreen.php

Liam Byrne

HellsAngel wrote: »

Soldiers take off safety catch, load bullet into the breach, lift rifle and take careful aim, murders citizens

Sounds like what the "vols" did.......can we expect Martin Ferris to give them a lift ?

KeithAFC

blahfckingblah wrote: »

even pearse doherty and the younger members?
very narrowsighted, so then you think the provisional IRA are your government?

Of course.